Mayor Pro Tem Landry noted that Council did not yet have a quorum, which required four members. Therefore, Council could not conduct any official business. However, he was informed by the Council parliamentarian that Council could perform interviews. He asked for Council’s suggestions on whether to conduct interviews or adjourn for the evening.

Member Paul suggested that Council hear the interviews. Council would not hear any action items; therefore, it would not be voting and would not need a quorum to do so.

Member Gatt felt that Council would not be voting anyways. He found it very disgruntling that there were only three members of Council in attendance, as there would be seven members voting on the appointments.

Mayor Pro Tem Landry noted that he was also disconcerted. The Mayor is out of town, and there was nothing that he could do anything about. The Mayor had informed both the City Clerk and Mayor Pro Tem Landry of this a week earlier that he would be out of town on business. It would be more unfair to not hear from the people who had scheduled their time that evening, so he was inclined to go forward and at least hear interviews that evening. Council could not take any action without the quorum. He said Council would not officially hold the meeting, but would rather hold an informal discussion. Another meeting would be scheduled, and it would be left to the candidates as to whether they wished to be interviewed that evening, or to schedule another interview with a more complete Council.

Member Paul said she agreed with Mayor Pro Tem Landry’s comment. She suggested that when there was a full Council, they could look at June 28^th as the date for an additional special meeting.

Member Gatt said this was fine with him.

Mayor Pro Tem Landry reiterated that Council did not officially have a quorum. Technically, Council did not plan on taking any action that evening on the interviews, as the meeting was only to take the interviews. In light of the fact that there were more applicants than were scheduled to be interviewed that evening, and that Council would schedule another interview date anyways, all applicants would be given the opportunity to either interview that evening or interview on a later date.

APPROVAL OF AGENDA - Postponed

AUDIENCE PARTICIPATION - None

SET SPECIAL MEETING DATE - Postponed

1. Consideration of setting additional Interview meeting for the remaining 5 applicants to Boards and Commissions.

Ms. Appel noted that she lives on Novi Road, south of Ten Mile. She has lived in Novi for approximately 18 months. Her main interest in the Woodlands Review Board is that she would like to see what the City’s interests in its woodlands are. The best way to accomplish this is to be on the inside.

Member Paul thanked Ms. Appel for interviewing. She noted that Ms. Appel had also listed the Economic Development Commission and the Beautification Commission as commissions that she was interested in serving on. She asked if there was a board that Ms. Appel would prefer to sit on.

Ms. Appel replied that her preference was for the Woodlands Review Board.

Member Paul asked Ms. Appel if she had ever done any technical reviews of woodlands or any type of plan.

Ms. Appel said she understood this. The only experience of hers related to this was working with the Michigan DEQ for stormwater and industrial permits.

Member Paul said she appreciated Ms. Appel coming out, and noted that the Beautification Commission is also looking for people to become involved. Council is hoping to appoint residents to both of those boards. Both of the boards do a great deal of work to keep the City beautiful.

Member Gatt asked Ms. Appel what the biggest problem facing the City today is regarding its woodlands, and how she would deal with that problem.

Ms. Appel replied that the City needs to work on preservation of its woodlands, and she would like to see less large subdivisions go in. As those developments are constructed, the woodlands are removed. There needs to be a better plan for how to deal with preserving the trees.

Member Nagy asked Ms. Appel if she had a preference for one of the committees listed on her application.

Ms. Appel replied that she preferred the Woodlands Review Board. She lives on nine acres, and it is the City’s best interest to figure out what is going on with its woodlands.

Member Nagy asked Ms. Appel if she would be willing to learn the City’s woodlands ordinances.

Ms. Appel replied that she was prepared to learn the ordinances.

Mayor Pro Tem Landry noted in Ms. Appel’s application that she has an MDEQ storm water industrial license. He asked her to explain what this license was.

Ms. Appel replied that this license was for monitoring industrial sites, specifically storm water runoff and how it affects the groundwater, as well as the flora and fauna around the site.

Mayor Pro Tem Landry asked Ms. Appel what context she obtained this license in.

Ms. Appel replied that she was working as an engineer for a company in South Lyon when she obtained that license.

Mayor Pro Tem Landry thanked Ms. Appel for interviewing. He noted that she had been a resident for one year. He encourages everyone to become involved with the City, including new residents. He recommended that she continue to volunteer.

Mayor Pro Tem Landry noted that with Member Nagy’s arrival, Council now had a quorum and could take official action.

SET SPECIAL MEETING DATE

1. Consideration of setting additional Interview meeting for the remaining 5 applicants to Boards and Commissions.

Susan Engebretson, 24780 Davenport Avenue, said she has been a resident of Novi for the past 17 years. She has been an acting commissioner on the Parks, Recreation, and Forestry Commission for the past 12 months. She has three sons and has been married for almost 20 years. Her three boys are actively involved in the Novi Parks and Recreation system. Her husband has been a coach for the past seven years in that system. She has tremendously enjoyed the opportunity to serve the community of Novi over the past 12 months. There have been some very interesting and exciting things that have happened on the Parks, Recreation, and Forestry Commission. A few of the highlights have been last fall’s joint meeting with the City Council, the approval of the Community Recreation Plan, the review and approval of the Singh donation and its attached endowment for the Singh trail, the incorporation of the Novi Parks Foundation, and also the appointment of a board for that Foundation. This has been an exciting time to be involved with the City.

Ms. Engebretson noted that she sits on the Commission’s Resource Committee, and she has been participated in the preparation of the 501(c)3 filing for the Foundation, which will allow for tax exempt status and will greatly allow the Commission to enhance its contributions in the future. Should Council reappoint her, she looks forward to continuing her role with the Parks, Recreation, and Forestry Commission, and also helping the Foundation get itself up and running. She is a certified public accountant, and has a fairly extensive accounting background. She would like to help the Foundation get its day-to-day operations going and get some cash in the door.

Member Gatt asked Ms. Engebretson what she believes is the most pressing problem facing the Parks, Recreation, and Forestry Department today, and what she plans on doing to resolve that problem.

Ms. Engebretson replied that there are a multitude of issues facing the community right now. Obviously the emerald ash borer has significantly impacted the City. The City is looking at possible State and federal assistance for the borer, so hopefully it will receive some relief soon, but this will be a big cost to both the City and the taxpayer. The City is still not in compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), which the Commission has rated as its number one priority. The ADA has been in place for a while and the Commission very much wants to comply. There are some improvements that need to be made to both Power Park and Community Sports Park. Those parks are starting to age; the fences are starting to rust, and the outfields are weedy and bumpy. There are many problems with the facilities, but those are the top four that she would rate at this time.

Member Gatt asked Ms. Engebretson what she would do to resolve those problems.

Ms. Engebretson replied that the Parks, Recreation, and Forestry Commission was very appreciative of the funds that Council awarded to it with the budget. The Parks, Recreation, and Forestry Department had provided a recommendation for what it believed the funds should be used for, and the Commission approved that recommendation 7-0. The Commission had felt that the Department was in a better position to make the recommendations that it approved. ADA was the number one recommendation; improvements will be done to Lakeshore Park that will allow those with disabilities to access the beach and to enjoy the facilities at that park. There were also some pathway improvements included at Lakeshore Park. Also included were turf maintenance and safety issues at some of the different ball fields.

Member Nagy recalled that Ms. Engebretson had said that the Parks, Recreation, and Forestry Director was in a better position to allocate funds than was the Commission. She asked what the purpose of the Parks, Recreation, and Forestry Commission is.

Ms. Engebretson replied that she feels the Commission is in a position to advise the director as to what the community thinks, which is how she has taken the role over the past 12 months. She has put her ear to the ground, and has kids in every sport. She asks parents what they think about the ball fields, about the soccer program, how divisions are made among neighborhoods, referees, the feeder program, the senior program, and other topics. This is the role that she has tried to fulfill over the past 12 months. As far as the specifics, such as what equipment the Department needs, she does not know that she is in a position to make specific recommendations. She and the Commission felt that Mr. Auler and his department were in a better position to know what it needed.

Member Nagy said there are some interesting and excellent people serving on the Parks, Recreation, and Forestry Commission, and they have come up with many interesting ideas such as the Parks Foundation. One of the commissioners had actually organized the cleaning of Power Park. She asked if getting more community involvement would help the situation.

Ms. Engebretson responded that this involvement would absolutely help the area. One of the ideas that came out of the previous Thursday’s meeting was that the Commission needs help. If it can find 30 volunteers to work on the Rotary Park cleanup or some of the infield preparation at Power Park or Community Sports Park, the Commission would welcome this or any assistance.

Member Nagy said she watches the Parks, Recreation, and Forestry Commission meetings, and feels that Ms. Engebretson does a good job. She thanked her for reapplying.

Member Paul asked Ms. Engebretson for her thoughts on the most positive thing that the Commission has done in the year that she has served on it.

Ms. Engebretson replied that the approval of the Community Recreation Plan was a huge step for the Commission. This document allows the Commission to apply for grants, which it has not been able to do in the past, at least to her understanding. She feels that the Park Foundation will be a fabulous tool for the community. The Commission is very excited about the Foundation board members that will be serving.

Member Paul recalled that Ms. Engebretson had said she had assisted in getting the Foundation off of the ground. She asked for an explanation of this assistance.

Ms. Engebretson said she was part of the Resource Development Committee, which consisted of David Staudt, Charlie Staab, and herself; they were the incorporators for the Foundation, and signed all of the paperwork that had to be sent to the State and receive approval from the Attorney General. They solicited from the Commission its recommendations for Board members, who were ranked and pursued to place on the Board. She is not part of the Board, and is an ex-officio officer, but did help to set up bank accounts and some of the original transactions for cash receipts. She also told the Board that she would do the paperwork for the license to solicit donations in Michigan and the 501(c)3.

Member Paul asked if setting these items up was a big job.

Ms. Engebretson replied that the work did not require as much time as she had thought it would, but noted that the work is still going on right now.

Mayor Pro Tem Landry noted that all of his questions had been answered for Ms. Engebretson. He has observed her on the Parks, Recreation, and Forestry Commission. He thanked Ms. Engebretson for applying to continue to serve.

Gwen Markham, 45540 Violet Lane, said she has served on the Planning Commission twice; the first time in 1996 and 1997 for about 18 months, and she was reappointed in 2001 and has served the past two-and-a-half years. She currently serves as Chair of the Planning Commission. She enjoys the work and feels that the current Commission is working quite well together. The Planning Commission has either assisted or been responsible for many accomplishments over the past year, and the credit needs to be spread across the whole Commission. There is good work done by the Implementation Committee and the Master Plan Committee, together which eight of the nine commissioners sit on. She said that Council knows her from her time on the Planning Commission.

Member Nagy said she had the pleasure of serving with Ms. Markham on the Planning Commission for two-and-a-half years. They worked together on the Master Plan and Zoning Committee. She finds Ms. Markham quite capable, dedicated, professional, and said she felt Ms. Markham was doing a terrific job. Member Nagy had no questions.

Member Paul thanked Ms. Markham for coming forward to volunteer again, as she knows that serving on the Planning Commission takes a lot of time. She said that Ms. Markham does an excellent job on the Commission. She has also served with Ms. Markham on the Planning Commission, as well as on its Environmental Committee, and felt they worked very nicely together. She asked Ms. Markham what the biggest accomplishment for the Planning Commission has been while she has served.

Ms. Markham replied that there were actually several accomplishments over the past 12 months that were very important. The most personal accomplishment was begun when she and Member Paul served together on the Environmental Committee, the creation of the park with the Singh development. Those discussions were begun last August with Singh Development at the Master Plan and Zoning Committee level. When the company came to the Commission with its proposal and wanted to donate a piece of property, it was really through that committee that the idea of the company helping to create a park with the City started. From a personal standpoint, this was the accomplishment that she was the proudest of because the City would wind up with a 250-acre park in the community, and opportunity that she was glad the City did not let go by. That park allowed the area to preserve the single most important piece of natural habitat in the community that was left unprotected. The park consists of over 250 acres of prime, wooded wetland, and is something that 50 years from now, people will be very appreciative of. The second big accomplishment was the creation of the new master plan, which required a great deal of time, effort, and discussion. The City will have a very nice plan when the document is finally approved. The Providence Hospital Ordinance that was written was very important, as this will allow Providence to bring a world class hospital facility to this community, and this facility will be at the right place, near the Beck Road interchange. That hospital will provide a real asset to the community. The Implementation Committee did a lot of work to make that happen, and she was very proud of those members for their work.

Member Paul stated that she agreed with Ms. Markham on all of her points. Providence Hospital will be a win-win for everyone. She thanked Ms. Markham for serving and for coming forward again.

Member Gatt noted that he was very familiar with Ms. Markham’s accomplishments and her dedication. He said he could not think of another more qualified person for the Planning Commission than her. He thanked Ms. Markham for all that she had done, and that she will do.

Mayor Pro Tem Landry recalled that Ms. Markham had served on the Planning Commission eight years ago for a couple of years. He asked how the City is doing, given that she had served eight years earlier, and was now serving today.

Ms. Markham replied that she had thought about that question a few times the previous weekend. There are two important things that have been done in the community; one is that Grand River Avenue is much better developed than it was when she moved to the area. When she served her first term, some members of the Planning Commission used to comment that Novi’s stretch of Grand River was the ugliest stretch from Detroit to Lansing. That road has come a long way, as there is now interesting, exciting development occurring on Grand River. Through the evolution of the City’s ordinance, the community has been able to protect large sections of open space. Some people complain about houses being closer together in some newer subdivisions, but by putting the homes closer together, the City is able to accomplish several things. One is that neighborhoods are created where people actually talk to each other because they are close to each other, which is important for the long-term health of the community. Less infrastructure must be constructed with homes built closer together – less roads, less underground pipes, less wires, and other items. This also works to protect large pieces of the natural environment for long-term preservation. Over time, the ordinances have grown in their ability to preserve. The Planning Commission started with the preservation option many years ago and the cluster option; those were the first times that the City really tried to cluster housing and save a big piece of the nearby environment. This has evolved through the RUD process, and is still evolving.

Mayor Pro Tem Landry thanked Ms. Markham for her time.

Moira Robinson, Meadowbrook Manor, noted that she has lived at her address since 1994. She is a small business owner in the community, as she brought a local branch of a mortgage company to Novi in 1999, where she has been operating for five years. She has a 14-year-old son who began Novi schools in kindergarten and has gone all the way through eighth grade, and will be going on to the high school next year. She has been married to the same man for 15 years. Her 10 years’ worth of military background lends organizational and discipline qualities. She currently serves on the Beautification Commission, as she has done since February. She is also a member of the Chamber of Commerce. Previously she served as a member of a condominium homeowner’s association in the local area. She serves leadership positions with various business community organizations as well. If selected to serve on the Planning Commission, her strengths would be the ability to listen to what is being proposed, think the ideas through, perform research, and make sure that decisions are made with good thought, not emotions.

Member Paul noted that there were many people applying to serve on the Planning Commission. Ms. Robinson currently serves on the Beautification Commission, and had also listed the Library Board on her application.

Ms. Robinson replied that on her initial application from January, she believed she had listed three commissions that she was interested in serving on.

Member Paul said she had the Library Board, the Beautification Commission, and the Planning Commission as the three commissions listed on Ms. Robinson’s application. She asked Ms. Robinson if she was really just interested in the Planning Commission, or if she was interested in any of the three.

Ms. Robinson replied that she had been invited specifically to interview for the Planning Commission position.

Member Paul asked if she had ever looked at blueprints or worked with ordinances.

Ms. Robinson said that she had not in this City, or pertaining to the Planning Commission. In general, because of her industry background, she has worked with similar documents, but not any specific to this community.

Member Paul asked Ms. Robinson if there is any one thing that she would be able to offer the Planning Commission specific to her qualifications.

Ms. Robinson replied that she could provide a fresh perspective. She is a resident and business owner, so she can see both sides of issues that might be brought before the Commission. She does not have any predisposed thoughts, one way or another, so she might be able to provide a fresher perspective.

Member Gatt asked Ms. Robinson what she felt was the most pressing problem facing the Planning Commission at this time.

Ms. Robinson said she did not know that she would call it a problem, but maintaining the current master plan is important. The City is built out to about 75% right now, so it is very important that the City is very concerned and careful with what happens to the remaining quarter of its land.

Member Gatt asked Ms. Robinson if she considered the master plan a living, breathing document that should change as the environment of the City changes, or if the City should be rigid in sticking to the document.

Ms. Robinson replied that the master plan is a blueprint, but being too inflexible might not serve the needs of emerging situations. The master plan is not rigid.

Member Nagy noted that Ms. Robinson had served on her homeowner’s association board of directors for a short period of time. She noted that Ms. Robinson had recently been appointed to the Beautification Committee, and asked what accomplishments that committee has made thus far.

Ms. Robinson said the Beautification Commission operates very well for the programs that are currently being run. The woman that chairs the Commission has been doing so, very well, for years. She said her own contributions have been at some committee meetings and to provide input here and there. She has not served on the Commission for very long so she has not had much of an opportunity to contribute very much. However, interviewing for the Planning Commission was something that she felt called to do in order to give more to the City of Novi than what might be asked of her from the Beautification Commission.

Mayor Pro Tem Landry noted that Ms. Robinson had interviewed before Council before, and he wished to say to her and the other applicants that it is an enviable position for Novi or any other city to be in, to have more applicants than positions to fill. The corollary to that, however, is that not all applicants can be appointed. Council certainly encourages everyone to continue applying, whether or not they are appointed. Council looks favorably on someone who continues to show an interest in the City, and always welcomes applicants for any board or commission. He said "bravo" to Ms. Robinson, thanked her for serving on the Beautification Commission, and said Council would certainly consider her for the Planning Commission.

David Lipski, 41690 Dukesbury Court, said this was his second time appearing before Council for a position on the Planning Commission. He considers it an honor and a privilege to live in Novi. He has a wife who is a physician and two sons, one whom is a third grader at Deerfield Elementary. He was lucky enough the previous Thursday, in the freezing rain, to watch his son almost get a base hit in a little league game. He was particularly moved by the volume of people at that game at Power Park. This is a cohesive community with a bright future. Mr. Lipski said he has lived in Novi since May of 1996, when he lived at Thirteen Mile and Old Novi Road, until December of 2002 when his family moved to Chase Farms. He is a big fan of the City, and would like to lend an expertise in real estate to the City. He was the head of the real estate department at his former firm, Howard and Howard Attorneys in Bloomfield Hills. He is now intensely involved with the real estate department at Dykema Gossett, also in the Bloomfield Hills office. There is an overwhelming need for a partnership between business communities and their cities. There is a reluctance and a hesitance on the part of municipalities, for whatever reason, to look at a developer with an objective eye. At the same time, he feels that many zoning and land use lawyers have many billable hours because developers look the same way upon municipalities, with apprehension and concern that they might be treated unjustly. He believes that every situation is extremely unique as it presents itself. The zoning ordinances that the City has need to be applied at the most rudimentary level, and on a fair basis. If he was allowed to serve on the Planning Commission, he would make it a conscious effort to understand the pulse of the City, to understand where it is going, and not attempt to appease his potential client pool, nor citizens with a particularly private agenda that is not best for the entire City. He knows that the City has had a history of litigation, and said these situations do not have to happen. As a commercial litigator and zoning and land use lawyer, he believes that the best lawyers, as said by Abraham Lincoln, "never file suit." The best lawyers get to a resolution where both parties are slightly unhappy. He has been litigating since 1998 a case involving a zoning ordinance in the city of Detroit, which has demonstrated that plain English accomplishes a great deal. If a City wants to regulate in a certain manner, this needs to be said very clearly, concisely, and make it so that lawyers cannot claim the City is ambiguous and vague in its drafting. He would like to offer this service to his City as well.

Member Gatt thanked Mr. Lipski for interviewing, as he felt that Mr. Lipski’s qualifications were impeccable. Mr. Lipski is articulate, bright, young, and energetic. He asked if the master plan is a living breathing document that should change, or if the plan should be held to a rigid standard, with the City staying the course.

Mr. Lipski said the master plan discussion reminded him of the Hamiltonian-Jeffersonian debate on the strict construction of the United States Constitution, the question being once the document is in place, should it be followed blindly with faith that nothing can be modified. Society has seen that there have been amendments to the Constitution. Those amendments should not happen readily or ad hoc; they should require an extremely large concurrence of citizens’ concurrence to make a change. The previous applicant had noted that the City is 75% developed. The question is whether the City wants to be 100% developed, and whether Novi will become like Chicago, or more spaced-out, perceived more as a country city, part of the frontier of the area’s urban sprawl. Nothing is permanent; however, he believes that if the Planning Commission makes a decision as to its agenda, the City should respect the plan and should go in conformance with that plan. He noted that he had not reviewed the new draft of the master plan, nor did he know if it was adopted, as the last time he had interviewed the document was not approved. If the master plan calls for or accounts for the redevelopment of the 75% of the community that has been developed, this might be an issue that the City will be confronted with requiring changes to the master plan. If 40, 60, or 160 acres needed to be torn down and replaced for a new type of theory, the City would have to consider what it would want on that property. He is not of the opinion that the City should be compressing residences. The attractiveness of Novi to his family was the unbelievable value that they received by moving west, and the extra dirt that he received for the same amount of money that Bloomfield Hills did not offer. The City should keep some of what is attractive to residents alive and breathing. The document can change, but only under certain circumstances.

Member Nagy asked if Dykema Gossett is a defense firm.

Mr. Lipski replied that Dykema Gossett is a general business firm that handles matters for both municipalities and developers.

Member Nagy asked Mr. Lipski if he is basically a defense attorney or a plaintiff attorney.

Mr. Lipski responded that he is both a plaintiff’s attorney and a defense attorney. He files cases for people, and he defends cases once they are filed.

Member Nagy recalled that Mr. Lipski had said that zoning ordinances need to be applied. She referred to the Links of Novi, which has now been renamed Quail Ridge, and asked if he would have changed the density zoning on that piece of property.

Mr. Lipski replied that he did not know what the existing density was.

Member Nagy said the zoning has changed on the property. She asked if, since Mr. Lipski said that zoning ordinances need to be applied, he would have maintained the zoning that had been in existence for that piece of property.

Mr. Lipski replied that his short answer was that he did not have enough information to say whether he would have maintained the previous zoning. As a matter of policy, the City should follow the zoning ordinance first.

Member Nagy asked if he ever sees a domino effect when changing zoning.

Mr. Lipski said that if the zoning ordinance is modified based upon the standards set forth in the appellate courts, there is a limited area in which the ordinance can be rewritten by a higher court. He said that what would be more readily accomplished is a different interpretation of unchanging language, which a court may do. In terms of the density of the golf course, he does not know what the density currently is. He does know that building houses on the back of other houses, with thin materials and very close neighboring circumstances, increases the tax base and allows for more units for the developer to profit, but might not be what is best for the City if what attracts people here is some space.

Member Nagy said she understood Mr. Lipski’s answer in regards to zoning and the court system. She said her question had to do with the zoning ordinance as it relates to Novi. She said a better question would have been would he have applied the current zoning ordinances in the City of Novi.

Mr. Lipski replied that he absolutely would.

Member Nagy said she had one concern, that Mr. Lipski had mentioned his potential client pool. She asked him if he would have any conflict of interest, being an attorney, if he were to serve on the Planning Commission, given that he represents both plaintiffs and defendants regarding property.

Mr. Lipski said this was an excellent question that he was glad was brought to the forefront. When he had last interviewed, he was confronted with a law firm that was in litigation with the City. He is no longer with that law firm and is very sensitive to those concerns. When he had spoken with his clients about his desire to serve on the Planning Commission, they had noted that he would not be able to hear any of their matters in Novi; he had told those clients that they were correct, but he would learn how a city operates and what its sensitive areas are. Half of the Planning Commission experience for him would be just learning to tell developers that if they approach the City, their guns better not be blaring, and they need to be in conformance with their agenda for the citizens. If that development "does not pass the smell test," it won’t receive approval. He would have to recuse himself from participation if the developer were his client.

Member Nagy commended Mr. Lipski, as there is zero pay for serving on the Planning Commission.

Member Paul said that Member Nagy’s question about a possible conflict of interest was one of her questions as well. Council has received different information about the related lawsuit, so she appreciated Mr. Lipski saying that he would recuse himself. She asked him what his priority was for serving, as he had listed both the Zoning Board of Appeals and the Planning Commission on his application.

Mr. Lipski replied that he was invited for the Planning Commission interview. He would like to get involved with the City and would serve on either. Part of his experience would lend to serving the Zoning Board of Appeals quite well, as that would be like a judicial position requiring review. At the same time, he would not mind being involved at the ground level, "which can stop a bad snowball before it accumulates." At the Zoning Board of Appeals, certain things may be set in motion that are undoable.

Member Paul said that all boards and commissions are extremely important, and the two that Mr. Lipski was applying for would require the largest time commitment. They are also the most important relating to law, and with Mr. Lipski’s legal experience she would like to consider him for the ZBA, but could also see how the Planning Commission would apply. There would probably be less conflict with the ZBA than with the Planning Commission, but she felt that he was very qualified. She asked Mr. Lipski what his biggest asset would be to the Planning Commission or the ZBA.

Mr. Lipski responded that he would provide balance. He would be able to translate in both directions, much like a mediator or a facilitator. When confronted with a novel and never-before-heard circumstance, hypothetically a Taubman or Schostak venture involving an external water fountain that is only usable three months of the year, he could understand why the developer would want this and why the City would or would not want something of the sort. Fairlane Mall’s arrangement lends to a mobbing of youth that was unanticipated, as the location is a place to hang out. At the same time, a City wants a safe place for its youth and community members to hang out. He said he would understand where a developer was coming from and why it would want to do something, and could shed new light on the subject for members of either the Planning Commission or the Zoning Board of Appeals; at the same time, he would be more sensitive as a resident of Novi to concerns about what happens to the land, how it is treated, and what will occur. The congestion in front of Twelve Oaks Mall during the holidays has likely been a major issue for this town. The congestion on Haggerty Road must have been a big issue for Novi. There are likely other issues of this nature that will arise because the City is so developed. At the same time, this is part of the attraction of the City.

Mayor Pro Tem Landry commented that Mr. Lipski was obviously very well qualified for the position. He believes, as Mr. Lipski does, that it is important to have a very balanced Planning Commission, with members of different backgrounds and expertise. He does not feel that the process should be adversarial, although it often becomes that way. It is important to steer the process away from being adversarial, but often the stakes are high, depending on the project, for both sides. An understanding diffuses that conflict, and if people can keep on track, the best comes out for both sides. He applauded Mr. Lipski for his application, as he was very well qualified.

Mr. Lipski thanked Council. As a final comment, he said that a good friend of his who had just moved to Novi was applying to be on the Economic Development Corporation, Andy Gutman, whom he said knows the real estate business.

Elizabeth Nick said she has been a resident of Novi since 1983, has never held a public office, and has raised three children in the City. Walking from the library to the civic center reminded her of the ten years that her children were students at Novi High School. She feels that she now has a bit more time to give to the community, and would like to serve on the Historical Commission. She is a friend of Kathy Mutch, who had approached her about the opening on the Commission. Her undergraduate degree from Wayne State University is in anthropology, so she loves people and learning about the beginnings of things. She likes to work with children, has been active in the 4-H club when it was in Novi, and has been told that many activities for the Historical Commission have to do with educating children about what has happened in Novi and providing a sense of local history. She worked for a short time at Greenfield Village as a presenter, and while she recently gave this up to take another part-time job, she still wants to be part of bringing history to the people. She said she does not know much about the job, but from what Ms. Mutch had said to her, it seemed like something that she would be interested in becoming involved with.

Member Nagy said she appreciated the fact that, considering Ms. Nick was not entirely sure what it was that she was about to do, she was still applying. This gave her a great deal of confidence in Ms. Nick’s ability to have some guts. The Historical Commission involves other things than just the education of children, and sometimes the Commission gives its time to certain events. She asked Ms. Nick if she would have such time available for those events.

Ms. Nick replied that she probably would have that time available. She has a series of part-time jobs, which are full-time temporary positions.

Member Nagy said she knew that the Historical Commission works on events a lot. She wanted to make sure that, should Ms. Nick be appointed to that commission, that she have the time to devote to meetings and other events.

Ms. Nick said she had given this thought a lot of consideration and would have the time.

Member Nagy recalled that Ms. Nick had mentioned that she was a presenter at Greenfield Village. She asked what that position had entailed.

Ms. Nick replied that she was out at Greenfield Village at several of the sites, and would explain the particular house or grounds that the visitors would come to see, while also doing the necessary chores.

Member Paul said that Ms. Nick’s combination of education and experience at Greenfield Village would serve the Historical Commission very well. The Historical Commission has come into its own, and works very hard on different presentations for the City. She asked Ms. Nick what particular asset she would bring to the Historical Commission.

Ms. Nick responded that she is a very people-oriented person and likes to interact with the public. She does not mind studying and doing her homework.

Member Paul said that one of the things she would like to see the Historical Commission work on is fundraising for other events that it would like to come forward, but the City has a very tight budget. She hoped that Ms. Nick would bring that interest to the table and possibly solicit funds somehow for events, perhaps such as a donation booth at an event.

Member Gatt said he did not have any questions for Ms. Nick. The moment she mentioned that she was a friend of and recommended by Kathy Mutch brought her stock up 1,000% in his eyes. Ms. Mutch is one of the most dedicated ladies that he has ever met, both to the Historical Commission and the entire City of Novi. He believes that Ms. Nick will do very well, and he said she had his full support.

Mayor Pro Tem Landry said he did not have any specific questions for Ms. Nick, and thanked her for applying for the Historical Commission. One of the first things he would like to see if she was appointed to the Historical Commission would be to find the rookie photograph of police officer Robert Gatt from when he first started.

Wayne Wrobel noted that he is a resident of Willowbrook Farms, and has been a resident of Novi for 20 years. Previously he had served on the Cable Access Committee in the early 1990’s for four years. I has been president of the Jamestown Green Homeowner’s Association, the Royal Crowne Estates Homeowner’s Association, and is currently president of the Willowbrook Farms Homeowner’s Association. Due to business constraints and other matters there was a period of about five or six years where he was not involved in the community, but he is now involved again. He is employed by SBC as a switch capacity planning manager, with responsibility for 40 switches and general budget of about $45 million a year. Over his 25 years of working with SBC he has had numerous managerial positions, from budgets, planning, line operations, and others. He was applying for the Planning Commission because he has seen Novi grow, liking some things and not liking others. He sees many things on the City being made on emotion. He is a very analytical person and looks at the facts, not at how he feels about something, which is very important in making a decision. With his present employment he must do this all the time, and thus this is a strong point of his.

Member Paul asked for examples of recent good and bad developments in the City of Novi.

Mr. Wrobel replied that the one positive, as much as he personally did not care for it, was the Singh development at the Links of Novi. He commented that he hates to lose a golf course and hates to see the population grow, but understands that the land is valuable and that the owners have a right to use the land as they desire within the laws and plan of the City. That development was a good compromise; the City received parkland from the development, and the developer also got something. The only losers from that development are the golfers. He said he could not pinpoint any overtly bad recent developments.

Member Paul asked if there was anything that could have used improvement that he could think of.

Mr. Wrobel replied that as a resident of the Ten Mile corridor, he was concerned with the atrocious traffic on Ten Mile Road. In the past there have been referendums on widening the road, and he feels that the development on Ten Mile Road is increasing that need. The continued development is something that must be closely examined before being allowed to continue, and unfortunately the Singh development is part of that construction. The facts on both sides must be considered to make a decision.

Member Gatt recalled that Mr. Wrobel had mentioned the Ten Mile corridor. He asked Mr. Wrobel what he would do to resolve that problem, given the fact that there is no money at the City, County, or State levels. He asked how Ten Mile could be made a more easily transgressed road.

Mr. Wrobel replied that this was a difficult question, as without any money nothing can really be done. It is up to the City’s officials to politic and use their influence as a growing community to the State, the federal government, and the County, to try and obtain monies. Residents pay a lot of taxes and need to get their fair share back.

Member Gatt asked if, given that there is no money at any of those political levels, there was anything that Mr. Wrobel had in mind to make that road better.

Mr. Wrobel replied that without any money, there is nothing that can really be done.

Member Gatt said he agreed with Mr. Wrobel, and thanked him.

Member Nagy thanked Mr. Wrobel for appearing and recalled his interview from the previous time he had applied. She asked him if he watches the Planning Commission meetings.

Mr. Wrobel replied that from time to time when he is available he does watch them; not from beginning to end, as sometimes the meetings seem to drag on, but if there is something important going on that he is aware of he tries to watch to get an idea of what is going on.

Member Nagy recalled that Mr. Wrobel had mentioned that something he disliked were emotional decisions. She asked what emotional decisions he had seen made by the Planning Commission.

Mr. Wrobel said he could not give an example offhand of an emotional decision; he was speaking as a generality of all city government. People have their preconceived ideas of things and act accordingly. It is more important as servants of a city and appointees that people look at all the facts and base those facts on what is good for the city, not whether the person likes something or not.

Member Nagy asked Mr. Wrobel if he was implying by his previous comments that he would like to see Ten Mile widened to four or five lanes.

Mr. Wrobel replied that in his personal opinion he would like to see this widening. He has lived in that area for the past ten years and the traffic is atrocious, even in the pre-rush hour and evening. It can take 20 minutes to get from Haggerty to Meadowbrook Road, which is ridiculous. If a person tries to take the Grand River corridor, this is also backed up. The City has so much traffic that something has to be done.

Mayor Pro Tem Landry commented that Mr. Wrobel had certainly put in his time. Mr. Wrobel is the former president of Jamestown Green, the former president of Royal Crowne, and a current member of Willowbrook Farms.

Mr. Wrobel noted that he is the acting president of Willowbrook Farms as well.

Mayor Pro Tem Landry said that Mr. Wrobel obviously has his ear to the ground regarding homeowners’ situations. He thanked Mr. Wrobel for his time and willingness to serve.

Andy Gutman, Paisley Circle, noted that he had also listed the Zoning Board of Appeals on his application, and said he was fairly open to what he would consider. He and his wife moved to Novi about six months ago. A few years ago when they first were married they were looking for community where they could raise their children and grow old together, and it was at the urging of his friend, David Lipski, that they moved into Novi. He wants to be able to contribute to the community at large, and felt that some of the boards might be a way to do so. His background is in real estate. He currently works as Chief Financial Officer of the Farbman Group, a full-service commercial real estate company. He said he would love to give back in any way that the City Council believes would be a benefit to the City.

Member Gatt asked Mr. Gutman if he had a preference for which board to serve on.

Mr. Gutman replied that he did not really have a preference. He would serve in however Council felt he could best serve the City.

Member Gatt noticed on Mr. Gutman’s application that he had only lived here for a few months.

Mr. Gutman replied that he has lived in Novi now for six months.

Member Gatt commented that Mr. Gutman would come to love Novi, as it is the most remarkable, greatest city in the state of Michigan. He asked Mr. Gutman to pretend for a moment that he was on the Planning Commission. He asked Mr. Gutman if the master plan is a living, breathing document that should change with the times and the people, or if it is rigid and if the City should adhere to it.

Mr. Gutman replied that the master plan is a blueprint and needs to live and breathe and change as necessary for the betterment of the City. The plan is a guideline for how the City should be operated. From there, changes come as opportunities arise that are in the City’s best interest.

Member Nagy asked Mr. Gutman if he had a preference for serving on the Economic Development Corporation or the Planning Commission.

Mr. Gutman said that with his financial background, the EDC might be a better place for which he could serve. It is also important to him that he not take a position away from someone more qualified and better able to serve. He is open and is hoping to find a place in the City to serve.

Member Nagy asked Mr. Gutman if he had knowledge as to what the EDC does.

Mr. Gutman said he did not know that particular inter-workings of this EDC, but he has worked with EDC’s of several other cities and understands the basic concepts of how they work. He said he does not know the current issues facing Novi’s EDC.

Member Nagy asked if he believes that the City needs more commercial development.

Mr. Gutman replied that this was tough to say. He works for a commercial real estate company, and said he could not say that this was true. Novi has a tremendous amount of commercial property, but he does not know how much is enough. He would need to study the issue more to provide a well-educated answer.

Member Paul thanked Mr. Gutman for being willing to serve, despite only having lived in the City for six months and having a three-week-old daughter. She asked him what he feels is positive and negative in different developments in the City.

Mr. Gutman said he has seen some developments that have struggled from the commercial real estate side, but very few. The first struggling development that came to mind was Main Street, Novi. There are several different developments involved with that project, and they face challenges. Those challenges are easily overcome with the right planning, the right work, and the right tenancy. One of the greatest assets of Novi is that it has a vibrant commercial development area, which draws a tremendous number of people to the community.

Member Paul asked Mr. Gutman what the most positive development is that he sees in the City.

Mr. Gutman replied that he finds the idea of Main Street to be tremendously aesthetically pleasing, as is the idea of building a living, walking community. He likes the City’s sidewalks and the fact that they can take a walk on streets that have sidewalks in their subdivision. There are plusses and minuses to each of the different developments, and things that he could add value to in reviewing and seeing how the City could improve certain developments. Novi’s commercial businesses are wonderful.

Member Paul said she could see Mr. Gutman serving quite well on any of the three capacities for which he had signed up.

Mayor Pro Tem Landry said he admired that Mr. Gutman threw his hat into the ring after living in Novi for only six months. Mr. Gutman is certainly a well qualified person, and said he hoped the City could find some capacity to use Mr. Gutman’s services.

David Ruyle, Mill Court, noted that he has lived in Novi for more than 24 years. He has served approximately 20+ years in one capacity or another as a volunteer in the City. He served six years as a Parks and Recreation commissioner, has served the past two and a half years as a Planning Commission member, served on the 52^nd District Court Committee and several other committees that were appointed by Council or the Mayor in the last 20 years.

Member Nagy said she had the pleasure of serving with Mr. Ruyle on the Planning Commission for two years. She has worked on the Master Plan Committee with him, and appreciated him coming out that evening. She had no questions for Mr. Ruyle.

Member Paul noted that Mr. Ruyle is on the Master Plan and Zoning Committee, and there have been several interesting things to come before that committee recently. Singh Development is one; another is the northeast corner of Novi Road and Twelve Mile. Both of those sites have been changed in zoning. She asked Mr. Ruyle what his information was, and how he based his decision to change both of those parcels’ zoning.

Mr. Ruyle replied that he only voted to change the zoning for one of the parcels, the Singh Development property, as it would be a win-win for the City in getting the parkland and having the company pay for the trail. He had Singh commit to one other thing that he thought was very important at the time, that if there was an access going to Napier Road, Singh would commit to pave Napier from the access to Ten Mile, which would have been very advantageous to the City. However, the company decided not to build that access. That paving would have benefited both Lyon Township and Novi. As far as the northeast corner of Novi Road and Twelve Mile, this is a cemetery. He would be very opposed to any developments such as a gas station or B-3 zoning in that area. At one time, McDonald’s had thought about moving to that location from down the street, which he would have been opposed to. That property is sacred ground; even though it is not part of the cemetery, for 24 years that he has lived here the property has been part of the cemetery. This is an emotional decision, one for which he would listen to both sides of the argument. He would rely more upon the City Attorney than anything else at that instance, as the Attorney could say what the City could and could not do. He said that if he had to provide an on-the-spot answer, he would vote no on rezoning the northeast corner of Twelve Mile and Novi Road.

Member Paul said she supported both of Mr. Ruyle’s votes.

Member Gatt commented that he has known Mr. Ruyle for as long as he has been a Novi resident. Mr. Ruyle has dedicated his life towards serving the community. He has served the country as a marine, served the City in all the capacities he had outlined, and was an umpire on the ball fields for years. Nobody is more qualified to serve on the Planning Commission than Mr. Ruyle. He happens to agree with 99% of what Mr. Ruyle says on that commission. He wished Mr. Ruyle the best of health and the best on the Planning Commission.

Mayor Pro Tem Landry noted that he was very familiar with Mr. Ruyle, his qualifications, and his service to the City. Mr. Ruyle has served for two and a half years on the Planning Commission. He asked Mr. Ruyle if had been appointed to finish someone else’s term on the Commission.

Mr. Ruyle replied that he was not appointed to do so. There was a controversy at the time of the appointment, and there were three people up for appointment.

Mayor Pro Tem Landry said he served under the same circumstances, so he could relate to it. He thanked Mr. Ruyle for applying.

* Council reconvened at 9:15 p.m.

Dorn Lynch said that he and his family moved to Novi from Illinois about four years ago. They chose Novi because it had a great structure, very nice neighborhoods, great schools, and it seemed like a developing community that was much like the one they left in Illinois. It was not by accident that they ended up here. When he was in Illinois he was a CPA, for which he had served for the CPA’s for the Public Interest. He was a board member on the Center for Law and Human Services, which provided legal and other support to indigent people around Chicago. He also provided support to a number of different groups on a pro bono basis. Mr. Lynch said he was also employed for four or five years with the Chicago Public School System and had quite a bit of exposure to some rather contentious political dealings. In the time that he left the Board of Education and had served with the CPA’s for Public interest and the time his family moved to Novi, he had not done as much public service as he would have liked because of his schedule. He had been working for two of the big four public accounting firms and was traveling around the country; because of this, his community service "fell off the map." He plans to be in this community for a while, and wants to make sure that it continues to be everything that it was when he moved here. He has the opportunity and the ability to contribute to the City, which is why he was applying.

Member Paul asked Mr. Lynch what city he lived in when he lived in Illinois.

Member Paul said this is what she would have guessed, as many people compare Novi to Naperville. It is great to have the experience of living in other communities and drawing from all the positives that a person can bring. She asked Mr. Lynch what the one or two things are that he would like to bring to Novi that he thought were positives about Naperville.

Mr. Lynch said the greatest thing that he saw in Naperville was a good balance. Across Naperville and Lyle, there is a very good balance of residential development relevant to downtown areas and business development. There is a very active business development in both of those communities. There is a very well balanced funding structure, and the area is well planned and well thought out. Something that he already sees and would like to see continue is the educational infrastructure. Naperville schools are among the best in the country, and this is not by accident. Those schools are well funded, well maintained, and there is a lot of attention paid to them.

Member Paul asked Mr. Lynch if he felt there was any one project that is a positive in the City.

Mr. Lynch replied that he could not say there is any one project that makes or breaks the City. The development of the roads has been very disruptive but very positive for the City, and this will continue to be positive. The development of the shopping centers and retail areas is well done here. He said it was difficult to say that any one development is better than others. The community seems to have a very good balance.

Member Gatt asked Mr. Lynch if there was any one problem in Novi that he saw, as contrasted to Naperville, that the City could stop and fix now.

Mr. Lynch replied that he sees the City going through some awkwardness in development of some of the residential areas, as opposed to some of the commercial and industrial areas. He said he could not really say that this has been a noticeable problem so far, but there seems to be some figurative butting of heads over what is and is not developed. The areas around Ten Mile Road and Novi Road are becoming congested and clumsy, and he sees it developing into something seen on Ogden Avenue in Naperville, which is almost impassable today. One can find almost retail establishment they want on Ogden Avenue, but you cannot get to those establishments. He said he sees Novi Road heading that way as well, which is probably the greatest concern that he could see on the City’s face right now.

Member Gatt asked what the City could do to fix or stop those areas from becoming like Ogden Avenue.

Mr. Lynch said that some things are already in play; the development plans for the roadways will help. Developing alternative arteries is a good idea. The plan to have the conference center route out towards Grand River seemed to be a logical and sensible thing to do. With the development of Fountain Walk and more development in that area, if there are not alternative outlets found, the congestion might become unmanageable.

Member Nagy said she found Mr. Lynch’s comment interesting about doing things right and doing things wrong. She said that Mr. Lynch had mentioned Aurora, and asked what went wrong there.

Mr. Lynch said that Aurora had gone ahead with a few different initiatives that were naïve, to say the least, the first which was that it built off of Naperville. As Naperville grew and became saturated, Aurora found itself developing its fringes. To maintain a balance, Aurora began to develop its downtown area as well. That downtown area was very, very old, and the approach taken was to let riverfront casinos in, which was supposed to renovate the downtown area and bring traffic and money into that area. That development went absolutely nowhere and actually stagnated the downtown area. People came to the boats and people left the boats, with little development. Despite ten years of effort, the downtown remained pretty much the same as it was before. There wasn’t much interest, there was no increase in foot traffic, and there was a night and day difference in the development of the downtown areas of Aurora and Naperville. Aurora put all of its eggs in that one basket, which was not the wisest choice.

Member Nagy noted that Mr. Lynch has lived in Novi for three and a half years, and said the City could have used him at the budget meetings. She asked him if he felt there is a good balance between residential and commercial entities in Novi.

Mr. Lynch replied that today, Novi is first and foremost a residential community. There is a lot of opportunity to develop businesses, though he noted that he was segregating business from industrial development. The City is excellently positioned with the access that it has through the expressway, and with the interests here, there is an opportunity to develop much more business.

Mayor Pro Tem Landry said that Member Nagy had asked the very question that he was going to ask, about Aurora versus Naperville, what was right and what was wrong. He applauded Mr. Lynch for stepping forward, and thanked him.

David Paul, 45761 Willingham Drive, said he has been a resident of Novi for about eight years. He has been a member of Novi’s Cable Commission for one year, and has also been on the Parks, Recreation, and Forestry Commission for the past two years. As a member of the Parks, Recreation, and Forestry Commission, he has been the chairperson for the past 18 months; during that time, they the Commission has completed a five-year recreation master plan, which had not been done since the pre-1990’s. The Commission developed a partnership with Novi Youth Baseball and McKenna and Associates to develop a vision for Community Sports Park, which the Commission is now implementing. The ball field number two project was just recently completed for that overall vision. The Commission also has set up a Parks Foundation, which is going through certification for 501(c)3 status, and also obtained its first donor, a friend of his who had made the first donation of about $5,000. In addition, he and other members of the Commission have been contributors to that foundation. He has been able to add key people to the Parks, Recreation, and Forestry Commission. Several people that he has known that could bring value to the Commission were interviewed by Council and also appointed to the body. He is very excited about having a very strong Parks, Recreation, and Forestry Commission. He has three children who utilize the City’s services and activities.

Member Gatt asked Mr. Paul what the biggest problem facing the City regarding parks, recreation, and forestry is, and what the City can do to fix it.

Mr. Paul replied that the biggest challenge facing the City right now has been the funds appropriated to the Parks, Recreation, and Forestry Commission available to complete the parks. The Commission also needs to focus on new activities and efforts.

Member Gatt asked what could be done to fix this problem.

Mr. Paul said there are many options, which were listed and discussed when the Commission held a joint discussion with Council August or October of 2003. A variety of options were discussed, including increasing or utilizing an additional millage, looking at setting up a Parks Foundation, and looking at other opportunities to obtain funds, such as from a public or private partnership.

Member Nagy said she watches the Parks, Recreation, and Forestry Commissions meetings as often as she can. She is quite impressed by the Commission as a whole, and is impressed with the Community Recreation Plan. She is impressed by and contributed to the ball field where the Commission partnered with McKenna, and said she was happy that the Commission has brought forward the Park Foundation, which already has more than $5,000. She feels that everyone on the Commission does a great job, she is pleased by how the Commission runs its meetings, and looks forward to supporting him.

Mayor Pro Tem Landry noted that he and Mr. Paul were very familiar with each other, and said the Parks, Recreation, and Forestry Commission is doing a great job.

Mayor Pro Tem Landry noted that the time was only 9:34 p.m., and Mr. Swaggerty was not scheduled until 9:45, so he suggested recessing for a while to allow Mr. Swaggerty to arrive.

Mayor Pro Tem Landry noted that Mr. Swaggerty was not present, so he suggested that Council have the City Clerk contact Mr. Swaggerty and afford him an opportunity to interview at the next session, which he believed would be in the next couple of weeks.

AUDIENCE PARTICIPATION - None

There being no further business to come before Council, Mayor Pro Tem Landry adjourned the meeting at 9:52 p.m.

____________________________ ___________________________

David Landry, Mayor Pro Tem Mary Ann Cabadas,

Executive Secretary to the City Clerk

____________________________

Transcribed by Steve King

Date approved: June 21, 2004