| View Agenda for this meeting View Action Summary for this meeting REGULAR MEETING - ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Proceedings had and testimony taken in the matters of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, Tuesday, March 1, 2005. BOARD MEMBERS ALSO PRESENT: REPORTED BY:
1 Novi, Michigan 2 Tuesday, March 1, 2005 3 At 7:30 p.m. 4 - - - - - - 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I 6 would like to call the March, 7 2005, Zoning Board of Appeals 8 meeting to order. 9 Gail, would you please call 10 roll. 11 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer. 12 MEMBER BAUER: Present. 13 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 14 MEMBER BRENNAN: Here. 15 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup 16 absent, excused. 17 Member Fischer? 18 MEMBER FISCHER: Present. 19 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Aye. 21 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Here. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 24 The Zoning Board of Appeals is a 3
1 Hearing body, empowered by the Novi City Charter, 2 to hear appeals seeking variances from the 3 application of the Novi Zoning Ordinance. It 4 takes a vote of at least four Members to approve 5 a variance request; and a vote of the majority of 6 the Members present to deny a variance. A full 7 Board consists of six Members. 8 Since we only have five Members 9 present this evening, at least four votes are 10 required. Those Petitioners at this time who 11 wish to have their case tabled until next meeting 12 when a full Board is present, may do so now. 13 Is there anyone in the audience 14 this evening that has a case in front of the 15 Board that wishes to have their case tabled until 16 next month before a full Board? 17 Seeing none, all decisions will 18 be final this evening. 19 Are there any changes to the 20 agenda? 21 GAIL BACKUS: No. 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr. Saven? 23 MR. SAVEN: Madam Chair, Members 24 of the Board, I respectfully request that in the 4
1 seventh case you're reviewing, Case Number: 2 05-011, I respectfully request that it be placed 3 at the end of the agenda due to the unique nature 4 of this case. The presentation might take some 5 time, and the people beyond that time, it may be 6 better for them if they were heard before this 7 case. 8 So we'll be moving cases 8, 9 9 and 10 up; and 7 will be the last case. 10 Duly noted. 11 Any other changes? 12 MR. SAVEN: One other issue, 13 please. 14 I'd also like to mention that 15 I'd like to place for discussion for next month, 16 the election of Officers, please. 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 18 ay. 19 MEMBER BRENNAN: Madam Chair? 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Member 21 Brennan? 22 MEMBER BRENNAN: Case Number two, 23 I believe, has been tabled, that's 05-003. 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Is 5
1 that correct, Gail? 2 GAIL BACKUS: Uh-huh, Telcom. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay, it has 4 been -- 5 Anything else? 6 Okay. I'll move to approval of 7 the agenda as it stands, say aye? 8 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Any opposed? 10 None. 11 There were a packet of Minutes 12 in our -- there were a set of Minutes in our 13 packet for February. 14 Are there any changes or 15 deletions in the Minutes? 16 MEMBER BAUER: Move to approve. 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: All those in 18 favor of the February Minutes as printed, say 19 aye? 20 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: None opposed. 22 At this time, if there is anyone 23 in the audience that wishes to address the Board 24 in regards to making comments on anything other 6
1 than what's in front of the Board this evening, 2 may do so now. 3 Is there anyone in the audience 4 that wishes to make comment in regards to any 5 matters that are not in front of us this evening? 6 Seeing none, we will -- the only 7 other thing I would like to add at this point is 8 that there is a set of Rules of Conduct on the 9 front of the agenda -- on the front of this 10 evening's agenda. I'm going to ask all members 11 who are going present themselves in front of the 12 Board this evening, to please review those 13 Minutes -- review those rules, I'm sorry; 14 specifically, the cell phones to be turned off 15 and the time limits in presenting the cases. 16 17 And with that, we'll go ahead 18 and start with Case Number: 05-002, filed by 19 Paul Deters for Metro Detroit Signs for Discount 20 Tire, located at 42990 Grand River. 21 Board Members, you will recall 22 that this case was tabled from our last month's 23 meeting. 24 Good evening. 7
1 MR. DETERS: Good evening. 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: And you are? 3 MR. DETERS: My name is Paul 4 A. Deters from Metro Detroit Signs. 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr. 6 Deters, you were sworn in 7 last month, correct? 8 MR. DETERS: Uh-huh. 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You 10 may proceed with your 11 testimony. 12 MR. DETERS: Thank you. 13 Just as a recap, here for the 14 folks, you will recall, we had presented our case 15 to add monument sign to improve visibility for 16 the Discount Tire location. And a part of that 17 discussion was that the Discount Tire 18 representatives agree to remove the existing wall 19 sign that they have there. 20 The sign that's in front of you 21 this evening requires a variance, because the 22 current setback requires a 63 foot setback from 23 the center line of the road. Where we have the 24 sign proposed, is a 50 foot setback from the 8
1 center line of the road. 2 As you've been by the property, 3 I think you can see as we continue to move that 4 further back, it gets into the landscaping; which 5 in effect is creating the same issue that 6 Discount Tire has right now, with their wall 7 sign; in that, the mature landscaping on either 8 side of them make it very difficult to see into 9 their property. And I know we had spoken to it 10 to some degree last time. 11 In addition with me this 12 evening, is Mr. Rick Powers, who is the store 13 manager of that facility, and would be available 14 to address any concerns that you might have, too. 15 He's the one that sees every day that -- how many 16 of their customers have difficulty identifying 17 where there store actually is. And so this is a 18 real critical piece to Discount Tire. 19 I would also like the Board to 20 consider, too, that they're actually removing 46 21 square feet of wall signs. And the proposed 22 monument sign -- even though it's measured 40 23 square feet -- is actually only 28 square feet of 24 actual sign area. So they're about -- it's 9
1 almost a 40 percent reduction in there total 2 signable area, that they're voluntarily removing 3 -- 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 5 MR. DETERS: -- to have this. 6 Thank you. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Is 8 it there anyone at audience 9 that wishes to make comment 10 in regards to this sign? 11 Sir, please come down. 12 MR. POWERS: Good evening. 13 Thanks for hearing me for just a 14 couple minutes. I'm Rick Powers. I am Rick 15 Powers. I am the manager at the store that's in 16 question on Grand River there. Hopefully all of 17 you'll come and visit me at one time or another 18 real soon, I hope. 19 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr. 20 Powers, I need to interrupt 21 for one second. 22 MR. POWERS: Sure. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You 24 need to be sworn in by our 10
1 secretary, please. Please 2 raise your right hand. 3 MEMBER BAUER: Do you solemnly 4 swear or affirm to tell the truth regarding case, 5 05-022 -- 05-002? 6 MR. POWERS: Yes. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 8 ay. You may proceed. 9 MR. POWERS: As Paul already 10 explained to you, we have difficulty with this 11 sign on the side of the building being visible; 12 and because we sit back off the road, the 13 building, itself, when the trees and stuff are 14 all in full-bloom, is still difficult to even 15 see. 16 We get phone calls pretty 17 regular -- I'd say at least one a day -- where 18 people are asking where are you at. And when we 19 get into it, we find out that they've just driven 20 right by us; and they have to turn around and 21 come back. 22 And it's simply -- most of the 23 time, is because they're looking for us and 24 they're expecting something out near the road and 11
1 it's not there; so they don't see deeper into the 2 landscape there. So what we are proposing here 3 is to trade off the signage on the side of the 4 building, which is almost worthless now, and get 5 something down by the road a little closer where 6 people can see it. 7 I have had even customers who 8 are rather regular customers come in and make the 9 same comment, you know, I drove right by. I 10 wasn't paying attention. I forgot where you were 11 at, because we are not real visible to the road 12 frontage where we are at right now. 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Th 14 ank you. 15 Is there anyone else in the 16 audience that wishes to make comment? 17 Seeing none, there were 21 18 Notices mailed, no approvals; no objections. 19 Building Department? 20 MR. SAVEN: No comment. 21 MR. AMOLSCH: No comment. 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: 23 Member Fischer? 24 MEMBER FISCHER: Mr. Deters, can 12
1 you tell me in the previous sign that we had, do 2 you remember what the setback was last month on 3 that sign or is it the same sign that we were 4 looking at? 5 MR. DETERS: It's the same sign. 6 MEMBER FISCHER: It is the same? 7 MR. DETERS: Yes. 8 MEMBER FISCHER: All right. I 9 think one of the Members had a large problem with 10 the wall sign still being there. The 11 Petitioner's gone along with our request; and 12 therefore, I would be willing to support this 13 Motion, do to sight identification, as well it's 14 going to be -- if anyone (unintelligible) I'd 15 like to make a Motion. 16 MEMBER BRENNAN: I second that 17 Motion. 18 MEMBER FISCHER: I'd like to make 19 a Motion in case 05-002 that we approve the 20 Petitioner's request, due to sight 21 identification; as well as the Petitioner has 22 established the proposed improvements will 23 increase public safety and welfare. 24 MEMBER BRENNAN: Second. 13
1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It 2 's been moved at seconded. 3 Any further discussion? 4 MR. AMOLSCH: I'd require that 5 the wall sign be removed. 6 MEMBER FISCHER: With the 7 condition that the wall sign comes down. 8 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Th 10 ank you. 11 Mr. Gilliam? 12 MR. AMOLSCH: No. 13 MR. GILLIAM: That's 14 what I was going to say, too. 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 16 ay. 17 It's been moved and seconded. 18 Any further discussion? 19 Seeing none, Gail, would you 20 please call the roll. 21 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 22 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 23 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 24 MEMBER BRENNAN: Aye. 14
1 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 2 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 3 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: 5 Yes. 6 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 7 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 8 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes five 9 to zero. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yo 11 ur variance has been granted. 12 Hope that helps you out. 13 MR. DETERS: I'm sure it will. 14 Thank you for your time. 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Go 16 od luck. 17 18 Okay. Calling Case Number 19 05-006, filed by Bill Thomas at Tony V's Sunroom 20 and Spas, for Elizabeth and Guy Wade for a 21 residence at 46654 Cidermill. 22 Mr. Thomas is requesting a one 23 foot rear yard setback variance for the 24 construction of a sunroom. 15
1 Good evening. 2 And you are? 3 MR. RANDALL: Robert Randall for 4 Tony V's Sunroom and Spas. 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. Would 6 you please raise your right hand and be sworn in 7 by our secretary. 8 MEMBER BAUER: Do you solemnly 9 swear or affirm to tell the truth regarding case, 10 05-006? 11 MR. RANDALL: Yes, sir. 12 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 13 MR. RANDALL: My pleasure. 14 Robert Randall with Tony V's 15 Sunroom and Spas, at 20330 Hall Road in Clinton 16 Township, Michigan. We are representing 17 Mr. and Mrs. Wade this evening for a conservative 18 12 foot by 21 foot patio-sunroom enclosure out 19 the back of the home. 20 Mr. and Mrs. Wade have been at 21 resident Novi community for over 15 years, and 22 wish to add a small enclosure addition off the 23 back of their home. Now, as you can see from the 24 mortgage survey applied in the package, they do 16
1 have an unusual shape to their lot; in which, 2 given just the nature of the landscape, how the 3 lot is -- you might say on the eastside, much 4 shorter than the westside property lines. 5 The one foot rear yard setback 6 is merely just to make sure that it compliments 7 the home and blends in with the home as best as 8 possible; to accommodate the things that they're 9 looking to do inside of the room. It's going to 10 be a seasonal enclosure; not to be used in a -- 11 as we call it, a year-round addition. There is 12 no heating and cooling going into the room. 13 We've looked at the best 14 possible location on the home. The other -- the 15 westside of the home is a full dining room off of 16 that area; so this is really the best possible 17 location off of the living room, for the best 18 traffic patterns in the home and safety for the 19 family within there. 20 Outside of that, we feel that it 21 meets the neighborhood. I had support from one 22 neighbor; other neighbor on the other side of the 23 home, the home is vacant at this time; so you 24 may not have any letters of support from that 17
1 neighbor, as they are not presently at that home. 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 3 ay. 4 Anything else. 5 MR. RANDALL: No, that's about 6 it. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Is 8 there anyone at audience that 9 wishes to make comment in 10 regards to this case? 11 Seeing none, there were 212 12 Notices sent; two approvals -- the first approval 13 by Mr. and Mrs. Doug Ritchie at 46536 Cidermill; 14 and the second approval from Al and Sheila Roma 15 at 24760 Maple Street. 16 Building Department? 17 MR. SAVEN: Just to point out, 18 as this gentleman has indicated, this is an 19 unusual shaped lot from the eastside to the 20 westside. 21 Plus, to ask the question, in 22 regards to the enclosure, is it going to extend 23 beyond the existing deck as it is right now, or 24 is it going to be in line? 18
1 MR. RANDALL: No, it's in line. 2 We're building right on the existing deck that's 3 on the back of the home. We're doing some 4 reinforcement to it. 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 6 Board members? 7 Member Sanghvi? 8 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you very 9 much, Madam Chair. 10 This sounds like a very simple 11 straight forward situation; only a one foot 12 variance is needed. 13 And I am going be bold enough 14 and make a Motion that in the Case: 05-006, that 15 the Petitioner's request be granted, because of 16 unusual lot configuration. 17 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 19 ay. It's been moved and 20 seconded several times. 21 Is there any further discussion 22 on the -- 23 Seeing none, Gail would you 24 please call roll. 19
1 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 3 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 4 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 5 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 6 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 7 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 9 GAIL BACKUS: And, Member 10 Fischer? 11 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 12 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes five 13 to zero? 14 MR. RANDALL: Thank you. 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yo 16 ur variance has been granted. 17 You're all set. 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 19 ay. Let's call our next 20 Case: 05-007 -- sorry about 21 that delay -- Tim Schaefer of 22 Galaxy Sign and Hoisting for 23 Party America at 43741 Oaks 24 Drive. 20
1 Mr. Schaefer of Galaxy Sign is 2 requesting one sign variance to allow a logo in 3 the front -- in the storefront signage. 4 Good evening. 5 And you are? 6 MR. SCHAEFER: Tim Schaefer. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Would you 8 please raise your right hand and be sworn in by 9 our secretary. 10 MEMBER BAUER: Do you solemnly 11 swear or affirm to tell the truth regarding Case 12 05-007? 13 MR. SCHAEFER: Yes, I do. 14 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You 16 may proceed. 17 MR. SCHAEFER: We're asking for 18 a logo to be allowed for the Party America 19 signage. The logo is nine square feet roughly in 20 size, and is well-contained within the squared 21 signable area. 22 Back in '81 when this -- when 23 the original variance was requested, there was a 24 lot of little storefronts in the shopping center; 21
1 a lot of very small ones. With the times, the 2 way the times have changed, now there's roughly 3 five or six big stores in the shopping center. 4 I cannot see where the logo 5 would hinder the make up of the storefront. 6 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 7 ay. 8 Anything else. 9 MR. SCHAEFER: Nope, that's it. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Th 11 ank you. 12 Is there anyone in the audience 13 that wishes to make comment in regards to this 14 case? 15 Seeing none, there were 23 16 notices sent; one approval from ABC Warehouse; no 17 objections. We are in same retail complex. We 18 have no problem with the variance. 19 Building Department? 20 MR. SAVEN: No comment. 21 MR. AMOLSCH: Actually, just to 22 clarify what's before the Board is not the square 23 footage, dimensional variance. The problem was 24 the original blanket variance for the shopping 22
1 center -- part of the agreement was that no logos 2 would be included in any signage at the center. 3 So just to clarify that. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 5 ay, thank you. 6 Board members? 7 Member Fischer? 8 MEMBER FISCHER: This is for the 9 Building Department. 10 So the square footage is in 11 conformity, so it would be allowed? 12 MR. AMOLSCH: For that center, 13 there was a blanket for dimensional, also; it 14 goes with the property. The issue is not the 15 size. In fact, the logo is not allowed under 16 846 D. 1 under the original variance. 17 MEMBER FISCHER: Right. 18 If the Board hadn't made that 19 decision a condition back then, would logos be 20 allowed in those signs? 21 MR. AMOLSCH: Yes, it would. 22 MEMBER FISCHER: All right. 23 Given the fact a Board decision 24 24 years ago, plus years ago, I don't think that 23
1 decision pretty much fits the West Oaks area, 2 anymore. It doesn't fit the market in Novi, so I 3 would be willing to support this Petitioner. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 5 ay. 6 Thank you. 7 Member Bauer? 8 MEMBER BAUER: I was around when 9 this was put together. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Sh 11 all I move now? 12 MEMBER BAUER: This was agreed 13 to by the owner. And I think if we go ahead and 14 approve this, we are going to have many, many 15 more; not only at this location, but across the 16 street and anywhere else that comes up. And I 17 certainly could not afford -- I certainly could 18 not approve of the requested sign, because it is, 19 at this point, the same as everybody else. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Me 21 mber Brennan. 22 MEMBER BRENNAN: Just for 23 clarification. What we're talking about is the 24 balloons. 24
1 MR. AMOLSCH: Correct. 2 MEMBER BRENNAN: Okay. Just for 3 anybody watching at home. This company -- 4 apparently this company sells supplies for having 5 parties, right? 6 MR. SCHAEFER: Yes. They bought 7 the Great Party, and they've taken over the Great 8 Party brand all over the United States. 9 MEMBER BRENNAN: And 10 specifically, with shopping center, from 1981, 11 there was some -- a line item in there that said 12 that while signs are signs, you can't have any 13 logos. Although, I'm thinking now of -- over at 14 10 and Beck, Caribou Coffee and some of these 15 others have logos incorporated in their signs. 16 I wonder is it fair that we say 17 no to a new start-up business in West Oaks and 18 tie them to a decision made in 1981, when we have 19 that same capability in other strip malls? 20 That's the only thing that gets 21 me, Jerry. I don't know that it would be fair to 22 deny a logo to this party; when we've got logos 23 incorporated in signs all over the City, so -- 24 MEMBER BAUER: Where is the one 25
1 for Caribou? 2 MEMBER BRENNAN: Caribou Coffee 3 is right at 10 mile -- 4 MEMBER BAUER: Yeah, where it is? 5 MEMBER BRENNAN: What's the 6 logo? They've got that Caribou thing. 7 MR. SCHAEFER: Starbuck's Coffee, 8 also, which is in the -- 9 MEMBER BRENNAN: That was a 10 Caribou, by the way. 11 MEMBER SANGHVI: I am so glad 12 you clarified that. 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You don't have 14 to call 911. It was not a seizure. 15 MEMBER BRENNAN: So anyways, the 16 point is that there are logos incorporated into 17 signs elsewhere. I don't know how we can deny 18 this Petitioner, given that position elsewhere in 19 the City. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 21 ay. 22 Member Bauer? 23 MEMBER BAUER: I would suggest 24 that if this is approved that it be turned over 26
1 to the proper people to have this 2 (unintelligible.) 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: 4 Update. 5 MEMBER BAUER: All right, sir? 6 MR. SAVEN: Absolutely. 7 That's how the Motion as made 8 back then. This gentleman is here for that 9 particular case and that case only. He's not 10 here for the rest of the cases. 11 MR. SCHAEFER: And I'll take 12 everybody's pay for doing everybody else's, as 13 well. 14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Me 15 mber Sanghvi? 16 MEMBER SANGHVI: Question. The 17 mock up you have up is going to replace the 18 current sign? 19 MR. SCHAEFER: Oh, boy. I'm 20 sorry? Excuse me? 21 MEMBER SANGHVI: The mock-up you 22 have got up there -- 23 MR. SCHAEFER: Yes. 24 MEMBER SANGHVI: -- is going to 27
1 replace the current sign? 2 MR. SCHAEFER: Yes. It's not 3 placed in the correct spot, but that's -- 4 MEMBER SANGHVI: I know, but 5 it's going to replace the present sign, right? 6 MR. SCHAEFER: Yes. 7 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. I have 8 no problem with it, as we all discussed earlier, 9 and times have changed and things have change in 10 Novi also (unintelligible.) And 30 years, even 11 more changes are taking place, and I have no 12 hesitation in supporting his application. 13 And if I may make a Motion that 14 in Case Number: 05-007, the Petitioner's request 15 be granted. 16 MEMBER BRENNAN: For this 17 Petitioner only? 18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes, this 19 Petitioner only. 20 MEMBER FISCHER: Second. 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Di 22 scussion on Motion? Can I 23 get a word in? I want -- I 24 agree with Member Bauer, in 28
1 that there was a reason why 2 the members 20 years ago, or 3 even 30 years ago, for 4 whatever length of time, that 5 they put this on there; and I 6 just want to be careful that 7 no one thinks that just 8 because we are doing this for 9 this particular business -- 10 this business has -- this is 11 their patten, correct? 12 MR. SCHAEFER: Yes. 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Th 14 is is their patten logo, 15 patten sign. 16 MR. SCHAEFER: Right. I have 17 the paperwork, also. 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: We 19 have got it in your packet, 20 but I want it -- I want it 21 on the record. 22 MR. SCHAEFER: Okay. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. I'm 24 trying to make a point here, in terms of this the 29
1 patten sign. And that this is just not excess 2 decoration or flooding up the front of the 3 building with logo signs. 4 So that's why I would be able to 5 support it, and I wanted to clarify that. 6 Member Bauer, you had something 7 else to add? 8 MEMBER BAUER: Yeah. This is 9 different zoning than where Caribou is. And I 10 think this was set-up so that everyone can have 11 the same kind of sign; not that one has better 12 than the other. And I think that's reason why it 13 was put together that way. 14 So I will not approve it, but go 15 ahead. 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Th 17 ank you. 18 Gail, will you please call the 19 roll. 20 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 22 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 23 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 24 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 30
1 MEMBER BAUER: No. 2 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 4 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 5 MEMBER FISCHER? Aye. 6 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Sir, your 7 variance request has been approved. 8 MR. SCHAEFER: Thank you. 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: And 10 it's for this business only. 11 MR. SCHAEFER: Thank you very 12 much. 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Th 14 ank you. 15 Good luck to you. 16 17 Okay. Our next case would be 18 05-008, filed by Don and Dusta Bojovic at 185 19 Maudlin. Mr. and Mrs. Bojovic are requesting 20 four variances for the construction of a new home 21 located at that above address. 22 Good evening. 23 And you are? 24 MRS. BOJOVIC: I am Dusta 31
1 Bojovic. I brought my husband down with me, too. 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr. Bojovic 3 is here? 4 MRS. BOJOVIC: Yes, he is. 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Is 6 he going to speak on behalf, 7 as well? 8 MRS. BOJOVIC: We'll try and do 9 our best, both of us, but he would rather me. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: He 11 needs to come down and be 12 sworn in, is my point. 13 MRS. BOJOVIC: Okay. 14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 15 Would you raise your right hand 16 and be sworn in by our secretary. 17 MEMBER BAUER: Do you solemnly 18 swear or affirm to tell the truth regarding case 19 05-008? 20 MRS. BOJOVIC: I do. 21 MR. BOJOVIC: I do. 22 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Th 24 ank you. 32
1 You may proceed. 2 We purchased this lot, combined 3 lots 71 and 72 -- 70 and 71, at 185 Maudlin Road, 4 and we would like to put a small house in there. 5 And the variance we're asking to be changed -- it 6 is quite a big square footage, but we found the 7 house that we picked to put there, it would kind 8 of fit the area around there; which we've 9 watching for a few years. 10 (Unintelligible) improving and 11 new construction and additions, and so we would 12 like that change, if it's possible. 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 14 ay. 15 MRS. BOJOVIC: I really never 16 did this (unintelligible.) 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Th 18 at's okay. 19 We understand completely. 20 Just for clarification, this is 21 a brand new home, correct? 22 MRS. BOJOVIC: Yes, it is. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: And 24 these are the four variances 33
1 that you're requesting. 2 MRS. BOJOVIC: Yes. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 4 ay. 5 Is there anyone from the 6 audience that wishes to make comment in regards 7 to this case? 8 Seeing none, there were 36 9 notices mailed; two objections. 10 Board members bear with me 11 (unintelligible) I will read the objection. 12 When someone wanted to build on 13 this lot, that they had to be creative, and only 14 use two variances. Not only is this close to the 15 lot line, lack the square footage; it is 16 irregular in shape. 17 Anyone who drives down Maudlin, 18 especially on the weekend, would also notice a 19 parking problem. The road, in itself, is a 20 little more than a driveway in front of the lot, 21 with no room for parking on the street. 22 The lot was picked up for -- I'm 23 sorry I can read that -- because it didn't meet 24 building requirements. And that is by Richard 34
1 J-o-s-e-p-h -- Josephson, at 163 Maudlin. He 2 wrote in pencil, so it's very difficult. 3 The next objection is written by 4 Lawrence Wesson at 305 Maudlin. 5 Allegedly, Mr. Don Bojovic is a 6 builder located in the City of Sterling Heights 7 that accepted the property in question as payment 8 for performed by a resident from a client that 9 failed to (unintelligible.) Should this 10 allegation prove to be true, then I would object 11 to the this variance; as Mr. and Mrs. Bojovic 12 would not be residing homeowners; and therefore, 13 in my opinion would not suffer any hardship 14 concerning the denial of a variance to construct 15 a structure on non-conforming land. 16 Building Department? 17 MR. SAVEN: What's before you is 18 this irregular piece of property. From a side 19 yard setback, the side yard setbacks are met for 20 this property under the current. What you're 21 basically looking at is, certainly, the front 22 yard and the rear yard setbacks, which are in 23 need of a extenuating variance for that 24 particular property. 35
1 I'd also point out that in non 2 -conforming lots and the uses on that particular 3 property, you need to have at less 60 foot of 4 frontage in the front and the rear of the, 5 property, okay. In this particular case, based 6 upon the rear being that which is almost opposite 7 the front yard, you'll see that the rear yard is 8 in need of a variance, also. 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 10 ay. 11 Board members? 12 Member Bauer? 13 MEMBER BAUER: (unintelligible.) 14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Oh, Don needs 15 to clarify this. 16 Maple Wood is the old -- 17 MR. SAVEN: Maple Wood is -- 18 Maudlin -- Maple's the old Maudlin. 19 MEMBER BAUER: Okay. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: (Interposing.) 21 (Unintelligible.) 22 Okay. Member Brennan? 23 MEMBER BRENNAN: Well, 24 certainly, there's no way that you're going to 36
1 meet the front yard setback and the rear yard 2 setback, and build a house. They're already 3 dealing with a very narrow home of 24 feet. I 4 don't know that we've got anything less than that 5 on some of these small lots in the City. 6 The fact that they've pushed it 7 back toward the back of lot -- and I'm sorry I 8 hardly ever turn that off -- the fact they pushed 9 it back towards the back the lot, is preferred, 10 because that does open more space along Maudlin 11 for parking I didn't have any particular issue 12 with the last two items, the rear lot width, 13 because that's just one -- that's last to mention 14 at the rear of the lot. It widens up and meets 15 that 60 foot throughout the rest of property. 16 And the square footage is -- as 17 far as I'm concerned, close enough. So we're 18 dealing with the front and rear lot setbacks. 19 It's a house that should meet new adjoining 20 residence. I don't know how you'd build anything 21 with less variance request. 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr 23 s. Bojovic, I have a question 24 for you. Where is the 37
1 driveway going to be? Are 2 you going to have a driveway? 3 MRS. BOJOVIC: It's going to 4 be -- he says it's going to be on the side, on 5 lot 71. 6 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 7 ay. So there will not be any 8 parking on the street. It 9 will be out of the 10 right-of-way. The driveway 11 is going -- 12 MRS. BOJOVIC: Well, first, there 13 is no place there to park on the street, because 14 it's like a curve; and there's no place to park 15 on the street. Because that's what I asked, the 16 first thing. 17 And one thing, just to clarify, 18 he is not a builder. Whatever neighbor said 19 that, he thought we got it because of the taxes. 20 We didn't get it from the City, just to pay the 21 taxes. We purchased the lot, and he is not a 22 builder. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 24 ay. So you are -- I wanted 38
1 to establish, because of that 2 concern, that you are going 3 to have a driveway. 4 MRS. BOJOVIC: Yes, it is. 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 6 MRS. BOJOVIC: And there is 7 enough space for a driveway. 8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 9 So long as that's on the record, 10 I can support this, as well, if anyone has a 11 Motion. 12 MEMBER BRENNAN: One other 13 thing? 14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes, Member 15 Brennan -- 16 Member Sanghvi, go ahead. 17 MEMBER SANGHVI: I have a couple 18 of questions. 19 What is the size of the lot? 20 MR. BOJOVIC: It's area in the 21 front 61 one side, 114 the other side. 22 MEMBER SANGHVI: How do you -- 23 MRS. BOJOVIC: It's kind of a 24 funny lot. 39
1 MEMBER SANGHVI: What is the 2 square footage of the house you are putting on 3 it? 4 MR. BOJOVIC: It's 24 by 22. It's 5 a 2000 square foot house, two story house. 6 MEMBER SANGHVI: You're going to 7 have two floors, right? 8 MR. BOJOVIC: Yeah. 9 MEMBER SANGHVI: So what's the 10 approximate square footage of the house? 11 MR. BOJOVIC: 2000. 12 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. 13 Thank you. 14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Th 15 at's it? 16 Member Brennan, did you have 17 question? 18 MEMBER BRENNAN: Just a quick 19 question. 20 Do you intend to live in the 21 house? 22 MR. BOJOVIC: Yes. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 24 ay. 40
1 MEMBER SANGHVI: Well, may I 2 make a Motion? 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ye 4 s, you may. 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: That in Case 6 Number: 05-008, we grant the variances requested 7 by the Applicant, because of the lot 8 configuration. 9 MEMBER BRENNAN: Support. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It 11 's been moved and seconded. 12 Is there any further discussion 13 on the Motion? 14 Seeing none, Gail, would you 15 please call the roll? 16 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 17 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 18 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 19 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 20 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 21 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 22 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 24 GAIL BACKUS: And, Member 41
1 Fischer? 2 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 3 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes five 4 to zero. 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Your variances 6 have been granted. Please see the Building 7 Department. 8 MRS. BOJOVIC: Thank you. 9 MR. BOJOVIC: Thank you. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you and 11 Good luck. 12 13 We will now call Case Number 14 05-009, filed by David Love of Novi Meadowbrook, 15 L.P, for Meadowbrook Townhomes at 29444 Weston 16 Drive. Mr. Love of Novi Meadowbrook is 17 requesting one sign variance, to erect an 18 additional ground sign for the second phase of 19 the development. 20 Good evening. 21 And you are? 22 MR. LOVE: I'm David Love. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: All 24 right. Would you please 42
1 raise your right hand to be 2 sworn in by our secretary. 3 MEMBER BAUER: Do you solemnly 4 swear or affirm to tell the truth regarding case, 5 05-009? 6 MR. LOVE: I do. 7 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you, sir. 8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You may 9 proceed. 10 MR. LOVE: The deal with the 11 development there, we have 1300 foot of frontage 12 along 13 Mile and a 1,000 feet or so along 13 Meadowbrook; yet, there -- the only entrances 14 into the development coming in off of Hemmingway 15 Drive and Brownstone -- which are on the other 16 two sides of it. 17 We do have a concent judgement 18 previously allowed the signs to be at the corner 19 of Brownstone and Meadowbrook; and at Hemmingway 20 and 13 Mile, but there is nothing that faces that 21 direction for any kind of westbound traffic on 13 22 Mile. And this sign sits on our property, which 23 is -- it allows us that exposure for the 24 westbound 13 Mile traffic. 43
1 We are trying to sell units in 2 the second phase here. It's just important to 3 get as much exposure as we can. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 5 Anything else? 6 MR. LOVE: And sign's been 7 there for a year. 8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: The 9 current sign has already been 10 there, the one that you're 11 requesting? 12 MR. LOVE: I was here a year 13 ago. 14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 15 ay. Thank you. 16 Is there anyone in the audience 17 that wishes to make comment in regards to this 18 case? 19 Seeing none, there were 12 20 notices mailed; no approvals, no objections. 21 Building Department? 22 MR. AMOLSCH: I just want to 23 clarify, that's not a new sign request. It's to 24 maintain the sign that was approved by the Board 44
1 last year. 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 3 ay. Thank you. 4 Member Brennan? 5 MEMBER BRENNAN: Could you 6 estimate at what percentage sale-out or sold 7 properties are in this phase? 8 MR. LOVE: The first phase sold 9 out 101 units; 77 in the second phase, which is 10 about a third or 35 percent are gone. 11 MEMBER BRENNAN: Okay. What do 12 you think you need, another year? 13 MR. LOVE: It would be great if 14 that were, but probably two years? 15 MEMBER BRENNAN: Pardon? 16 MR. LOVE: Probably two years. 17 I believe we sold something like five buildings 18 and 25 units last year. 19 MEMBER BRENNAN: And if you kept 20 that pace for this next year, you'd be somewhere 21 around 50/60 percent? 22 MR. LOVE: Yes. Somewhere 23 around 70 percent. 24 MEMBER BRENNAN: As a rule, we 45
1 allow these advertising signs until we get close 2 to build-out or sale out in the 90 percent range. 3 So I guess I'm compelled to support to some 4 extension. We can talk about the duration. 5 Maybe a happy medium is year and a half. 6 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Me 7 mber Bauer? 8 MEMBER BAUER: Is this sign on 9 your property? 10 MR. LOVE: Yes, it is. 11 MEMBER BAUER: The other one, 12 too? 13 MR. LOVE: All of the them are. 14 MEMBER BAUER: All of them are. 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Me 16 mber Fischer? 17 MEMBER FISCHER: I was just 18 going along with Member Brennan. I would like to 19 here a Motion from him, and I would be willing to 20 support it, probably up to a year half, a happy 21 medium between the Board and the Petitioner; and 22 that sounds good to me. 23 MEMBER BRENNAN: With respect to 24 Case 05-009, I'd move that the Petitioner's 46
1 request for an extension of the sign be granted 2 for the period of 18 months from tonight for the 3 purpose of selling out the development. 4 MEMBER FISCHER: Second. 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It 6 's been moved at seconded. 7 Is there any further discussion 8 on Motion? 9 Seeing none, Gail, would you 10 please call the roll. 11 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 12 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 13 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 14 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 15 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 16 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 17 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 19 GAIL BACKUS: And, Member 20 Sanghvi? 21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 22 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes five 23 to zero. 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Th 47
1 ank you. 2 Your variance as been granted. 3 MR. LOVE: Thank you. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: See you in 18 5 months. 6 Good luck. 7 MR. LOVE: Thanks. 8 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 10 ay. Our next Case is 05-012, 11 filed by Mary Czarnecki of 12 Northstar Signs, for Cushman 13 and Wakefield, at 41441 and 14 41651 West 11 Mile. 15 Is Ms. Czarnecki here? 16 MEMBER BRENNAN: Madam Chair? 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Member 18 Brennan? 19 MEMBER BRENNAN: I would 20 recommend that we table this case until the end 21 of the meeting; and if they aren't here, we'll 22 deal with it then. 23 MEMBER BAUER: Yep. 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 48
1 ay. 2 3 Case Number: 05-013, filed by 4 Richard Kiekens for a residence at 29072 Eastman 5 Trail. Mr. Kiekens is requesting a three percent 6 lot coverage variance, for the construction of a 7 screen room to be located on the existing deck, 8 located at the rear of the home at the above 9 address. 10 And you are? 11 MR. KIEKENS: Richard Kiekens. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 13 ay. Would you please 14 swear -- would you please 15 raise your right hand and be 16 sworn in. I was thinking of 17 the deck, the sun, you know, 18 and I got tongue-tied, sorry. 19 MEMBER BAUER: Do you solemnly 20 swear or affirm to tell the truth regarding Case, 21 05-013? 22 MR. KIEKENS: Yes, I do. 23 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you, sir. 24 MR. KIEKENS: And hopefully being 49
1 case 013, 13, doesn't indicate anything here. 2 MEMBER SANGHVI: It's lucky. 3 It's a very lucky number. 4 MR. KIEKENS: Hopefully. 5 Again, my name is Richard 6 Kiekens. I'm here representing he homeowner, a 7 Mrs. Maureen Kegg. We are seeking a variance to 8 Article 24, which allows for a 25 percent lot 9 coverage for covered or roofed portions of the 10 building. We are seeking to add a screen room 11 that will take the total coverage of the lot to 12 approximately 28 percent. 13 Without totally reiterating 14 everything that I have had here -- I'm sure 15 you've reviewed -- the current home on this site 16 is right at or maybe a little above the Article 17 that's allowed us already. This allows very 18 little legal room or actually none, for the 19 homeowner to do any kind of expansion to the 20 exterior. 21 This happens to be a elderly 22 lady that would like to enjoy the out of doors 23 without being subject to sunburn and mosquitos 24 and the diseases that come along with that. 50
1 She's very concerned about that. She has 2 requested us to build a screen room. And I've 3 got to admit, I was a little surprised to see 4 that the lot was already built to this capacity. 5 Hence, this brings me before you seeking this 6 variance. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 8 ay. Thank you. 9 Is there anyone in the audience 10 that wishes to make comment in regards to this 11 case. 12 Sir, would you please come on 13 down. 14 Good evening. 15 MR. FITZGERALD: My name is 16 Dennis Fitzgerald. I live at 29084 Eastman 17 Trail, I think a couple doors down from my 18 neighbor. 19 I have absolutely no problem 20 with what they're trying to do. In fact, I hope 21 when it's on there and it's raining, I can come 22 down and have a cup of coffee. The house does 23 back up to Meadowbrook Road, so there would be no 24 other homes that would be able to see what she's 51
1 done, or what she's trying to do. 2 And I don't think the neighbors 3 on either side are going to object. I'm 4 certainly as close as any other neighbor, and I 5 think that's neighborly thing to do; let them hae 6 the shade that they want. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 8 ay. 9 MR. FRITZGERALD: Thank you. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 11 MR. KIEKENS: I would like to 12 add that I did speak to the neighbor on the other 13 side -- 14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Hold on a 15 second. 16 Is there anyone else in the 17 audience that wishes to make comment? 18 Let's just go with what we've 19 got here. 20 There were 40 notices sent; two 21 approvals -- one approval by Daniel Kumlowski, 22 at 41490 Proridge. It's an approval, and David 23 Jarrett at 29121 Eastman Trail. 24 I'm sorry go ahead. You spoke 52
1 to -- 2 MR. KIEKENS: The neighbor right 3 next door that actually hadn't moved in -- I do 4 little bit of handy man service, as well, and 5 actually hung some fixtures and stuff for this 6 lady, but she hasn't actually moved in, maybe 7 isn't receiving mail -- but she, too, verbally 8 approved that this could be done, and actually 9 thought she might like the same thing, once it 10 was done. 11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. Thank 12 you. 13 Building Department? 14 MR. SAVEN: Just to point out 15 that I believe this is on the exciting deck? 16 MR. KIEKENS: Yes. 17 MR. SAVEN: It doesn't exceed or 18 go beyond that particular point? 19 MR. KIEKENS: No. 20 MR. SAVEN: Thank you. 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Board 22 Members? 23 Member Brennan? 24 MEMBER BRENNAN: Well, similar to 53
1 a similar case earlier tonight with an existing 2 deck, and putting a like building up. I'd 3 note -- I think you may have already said that 4 you have a condominium association approval. 5 And just for giggles, while it 6 may be surprising to you that the builder's build 7 to what is allowed, when you're sitting here, you 8 hear it every month. Believe me, if they can 9 build 29.3 percent, they will build a house 29.3 10 percent. And then anything else over and above 11 comes before us. 12 With that said, I don't have any 13 problem with this. And if there's sufficient 14 nodding, I'll continue on. 15 With respect to Case: 05-013, I 16 would move that the Petitioner's request be 17 approved for the purpose of enjoying the outdoor 18 elements, without getting carried away by Novi 19 mosquitos. 20 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It's been 22 moved and seconded. 23 Is there any further discussion 24 on the Motion? 54
1 MEMBER FISCHER: I would also 2 like to point out, as well as enjoying the 3 outdoors, but the health issues of the applicant, 4 as well. That's a big thing, as well. 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 6 ay. 7 Any further discussion? 8 Gail, would you please call the 9 roll. 10 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 11 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 12 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 14 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 15 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 16 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 18 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 19 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 20 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes five 21 to zero. 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You can tell 23 your client that she gets her variance, and make 24 sure that she thanks Mr. Fitzgerald for coming 55
1 out this evening on this horrible winter night, 2 just to show support. I think she does owe him 3 at least, brunch. 4 MR. KIEKENS: We'll do. 5 Absolutely. 6 Thank you very much. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: And 8 Mr. Fitzgerald, gets a gold star of the day for 9 (unintelligible.) 10 11 Okay. Our next Case is 05-014, 12 filed by Colliers International for property 13 located at 41200 and 41218 Bridge street. Robert 14 Hughes of Colliers International is requesting 15 two sign variances to erect a temporary real 16 estate sign located at the above address. 17 And you are? 18 MR. HUGHES: Rob Hughes of 19 Collier International. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Would you 21 please raise your right hand and be sworn in by 22 our secretary. 23 MEMBER BAUER: Do you solemnly 24 swear or affirm to tell the truth regarding Case: 56
1 05-014? 2 MR. HUGHES: I do. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You may 4 proceed. 5 MR. HUGHES: The variance is a 6 temporary sign variance, to help assist with the 7 marketing of the leasing of this property. We 8 were given a variance about two years ago. It 9 was a 12-month variance. We felt it was very 10 instrumental in the leasing of the property. 11 And now, times being as they 12 are, we do have vacancy again; more so than last 13 time. So we are seeking a variance once again in 14 hoping this time we'll have a 24-month period; 15 with which to complete the releasing of the 16 vacant space. 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 18 ay. 19 Anything else. 20 MR. HUGHES: No. 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Is 22 there anyone in the audience 23 that wishes to make comment 24 in regards to this case? 57
1 Seeing none, there were 20 -- 2 I'm sorry -- 16 notices sent; no objections, no 3 approvals. 4 Building Department? 5 MR. AMOLSCH: No comment. 6 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Board 7 Members? 8 Member Fischer? 9 MEMBER FISCHER: The last time 10 this sign was in front of us, is this the size 11 you used, as well. 12 MR. HUGHES: I believe it is, 13 but not the size that they used in the mockup -- 14 but size that was -- I think I have a copy of the 15 old approval here, although I didn't look at it. 16 I believe it was a similarly sized sign. 17 MEMBER FISCHER: More often than 18 not I see Petitioners come before us asking for a 19 30, 36 square feet and whatnot, I think that this 20 is the minimum that this Petitioner can deal 21 with. Therefore -- and often they're asking for 22 eight feet in the air. This is one is asking for 23 seven. 24 Therefore, I'd like to be bold, 58
1 like my colleague down there, and make a Motion 2 that we approve the variance as requested, in 3 Case Number: 05-014, due to visibility and sight 4 I.D., minimal variance requested. 5 And for the time period of -- 6 what were you looking for? 7 MR. HUGHES: 24 months. 8 MEMBER FISCHER: Are we allowed 9 to do 24 months? 10 24 months. 11 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It 13 's been moved and seconded. 14 Is there any further discussion? 15 Member Bauer? 16 MEMBER BAUER: The application 17 says 96 square feet. The last one you had was 18 48. It is now 24. 19 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 20 ay. Advertised as 24. 21 MEMBER BAUER: Pardon? 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It's been 23 advertised as 24 square feet; is that correct? 24 MR. HUGHES: Yeah. 59
1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 2 ay. 3 MEMBER BRENNAN: Is that the 4 sign you want to put up, six by eight, six foot 5 by eight foot? 6 MR. HUGHES: Yeah. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Not 8 the 96 square feet, as your 9 application indicates. 10 MEMBER FISCHER: Six times eight 11 is 48. 12 MR. HUGHES: The sign is a two 13 sided sign, so 24 -- so however they're -- I 14 don't know how you're measuring the sign area, 15 but it's as if there would be signage on both 16 sides of it, so that it's directionally visible. 17 MEMBER BAUER: It's not -- it 18 wasn't sent out to people the way 19 (unintelligible.) It says 24. 20 MR. HUGHES: Okay. 21 MEMBER BAUER: And you were 22 shooting for 48. 23 MR. AMOLSCH: The application, 24 it says six by four, 24 square feet, seven feet 60
1 high. 2 MEMBER BAUER: 96 square feet. 3 MR. AMOLSCH: (Unintelligible.) 4 Aside from that application, (unintelligible) six 5 by four; and it was advertised as 24 square feet, 6 and seven feet tall -- high. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yo 8 u're saying that it would be 9 96 square feet, though -- 10 MEMBER BAUER: On both sides. 11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: -- on both 12 sides. 13 MR. HUGHES: No. 14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: 48 15 square feet. 16 Who said no? 17 MR. HUGHES: I did. 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: 19 Okay. 20 MR. HUGHES: It would not be 96 21 feet on both sides. 22 MEMBER BAUER: No. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Total. 24 MEMBER BAUER: It would be 48 and 61
1 48. 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: But you're 3 not looking for a 48 square foot sign. 4 MR. HUGHES: No. 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. So -- 6 MR. HUGHES: Well, what I was 7 looking -- I didn't fill out the application, 8 myself. I don't know how it was transfered to 9 what you have or on this sheet of paper. All I 10 did was put together the sign request in our 11 office. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 13 ay. 14 MR. HUGHES: And then that -- it 15 is just procedurally -- was transfered to the 16 application process, which is then denied and 17 then leads to my being before you here. So there 18 was a mistake, obviously, in the way that the 19 information was transfered from my initial sign 20 request to the application that was denied. 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: So, 22 we need to readvertise this 23 sign, because it can't go the 24 way it is; if it's going to 62
1 be 48 square feet, right, 2 Don? 3 MR. SAVEN: I'm sorry. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I know. I was 5 kind of stalling. I was going to start telling a 6 story in another minute to give you sometime. 7 But we've got 48 square feet, 8 and we advertised 24, so he can't -- 9 MR. AMOLSCH: On a V-sign, sign 10 the sign post (unintelligible) the square footage 11 on one side. If it is out more than two feet out 12 you this way, then we take both sides as signs, 13 because they are, in effect, having a double 14 sign. 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Right. 16 MR. AMOLSCH: So he has to 17 maintain that two foot setback -- or from the 18 back of the sign, he can't be more than two 19 feet, otherwise we'll count it as two signs. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Is 21 that something that you could 22 do? 23 MR. HUGHES: I can place that 24 request. I don't know how they construct them. 63
1 I don't know what the dimensions are at the 2 backside of the sign. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I 4 think they need to go back to 5 the drawing board on this one 6 and get this cleared up. 7 MR. HUGHES: I'll resubmit the 8 request, and then I guess that means it's tabled 9 until the next meeting. I have to come become 10 before you? 11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You 12 had a good time here tonight, 13 so I don't know what the 14 problem is. 15 MEMBER FISCHER: I withdraw my 16 -- 17 MR. HUGHES: What is it -- 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You 19 need to -- Member Fischer 20 needs to withdraw his Motion. 21 MEMBER FISCHER: I withdraw my 22 Motion, due to the fact that we have this sign 23 that is six by eight; however, the sign permit 24 says six by four; as well, we noticed it for six 64
1 by four. 24 square feet, according to what he 2 just said. 3 So therefore, I withdraw my 4 Motion. I would make a Motion that we table this 5 to the April meeting of the Zoning Board of 6 Appeals, with the condition that the Petitioner 7 will be at the beginning of the meeting. 8 MEMBER BAUER: And there will be 9 a new letter sent out. 10 MEMBER FISCHER: Fair enough. 11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It 12 has to be readvertised. 13 MEMBER FISCHER: Right. 14 MR. HUGHES: Am I able to speak? 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes, go 16 ahead. 17 MR. HUGHES: Is the -- as it's 18 been applied for, sits before you today, is that 19 able to be approved; if I don't know request the 20 change? 21 MEMBER BAUER: No. 22 MR. HUGHES: Why is it not? If 23 the application and the Petitions and everything 24 were sent out predicated on six by four? 65
1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Because it 2 doesn't add up. The application doesn't add up 3 with what's advertised; and we're not clear on 4 what kind of sign we're approving at this point. 5 So it needs to be clarified as exactly -- as Alan 6 described; if you want that two feet separation, 7 or is it going to be counted two signs. 8 So we need to be clarified -- we 9 went under one assumption, but it looks like 10 you're asking for a different kind of sign. 11 MR. HUGHES: Well, the 12 assumption you went by is a six by four, at 24 13 square feet, a one sided sign. 14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ye 15 s. 16 MR. HUGHES: So if I were to ask 17 for no change and went with that -- 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Can we do 19 that? 20 MEMBER BAUER: No problem. 21 MEMBER FISCHER: Do you want me 22 to withdraw -- 23 MEMBER BRENNAN: Can I -- Madam 24 Chair? 66
1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Member 2 Brennan? 3 MEMBER BRENNAN: For his sake, 4 though, just so I understand it, if this is six 5 by four, 24 feet, and he's got the same thing on 6 the backside, we're not doing this. It's just 7 back to back. That's one sign. 8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Right. 9 MR. AMOLSCH: Correct. 10 MEMBER BRENNAN: Okay. That -- 11 we could approve that tonight, 24 square foot -- 12 MR. HUGHES: I'll do that. 13 MEMBER BRENNAN: Like this. 14 MR. HUGHES: I gotcha. 15 MEMBER BRENNAN: Okay. 16 MR. HUGHES: Crystal clear. 17 MEMBER BRENNAN: With that said, 18 make a Motion. 19 MEMBER BAUER: Go ahead. 20 MEMBER FISCHER: Madam Chair, I 21 would like to withdraw my Motion to table this 22 case; and I would go back to my original Motion 23 in Case Number: 05-014 14, we approve the 24 Petitioner's request for a 24 square foot sign, 67
1 seven feet in height; taking this one, six by 2 eight, out of the equation; due to visibility, 3 site identification. And I believe this is the 4 minimum variance requested. 5 MEMBER BAUER: Second the 6 Motion. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It 8 's been moved and seconded. 9 is there any further 10 discussion? 11 MR. AMOLSCH: Time limit? 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Time frame. 13 MEMBER FISCHER: One year. 14 MR. HUGHES: Not the 24 months 15 that was originally approved. 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: In 17 the original, you said 24 18 months. 19 MEMBER FISCHER: The last 20 Petitioner asked for 24, we gave him 18. So 21 shall we compromise again or shall we go with 24? 22 Recommendations from the Board? 23 MEMBER BRENNAN: I'd recommended 24 18 months. 68
1 MEMBER FISCHER: For 18 months, 2 sorry, sir. 3 MR. HUGHES: That's all right. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 5 ay. Any -- 6 Hello, Mr. Gilliam. 7 MR. GILLIAM: Good 8 evening, again. 9 Just to clarify the comments 10 that Member Brennan made, in talking with Alan, 11 it's my understanding that with the dimensions 12 that you've set forth at this point in time, this 13 sign could either be a two-faced sign, six by 14 four on each side. 15 If the Applicant wanted to have 16 a V-shaped sign, he could still do that, but the 17 separation at the wide-end of the V, could be no 18 more than two feet. 19 MR. HUGHES: I'm understanding 20 that. 21 MR. AMOLSCH: Correct. 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you for 23 that clarification. 24 Is there any further discussion? 69
1 Seeing none, Gail would you 2 please call the roll. 3 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 4 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 5 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 6 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 7 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 8 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 9 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 11 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 12 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 13 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes 5 to 14 zero. 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you, 16 your variance has finally been granted? 17 Good luck to you. 18 MR. HUGHES: Thank you. 19 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: At this time, 21 the Board would entertain a Motion for a five 22 minute break. 23 And before I ask for approval on 24 that, are the Petitioners here for Case Number: 70
1 05-012? No? Mary Czarnecki? Still not shown. 2 Since that's the case, the Board 3 will take a five minute break, and come back and 4 see -- hear case 05-011. 5 6 (A brief recess was taken.) 7 8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 9 ay. I would like to, at this 10 time, call the ZBA meeting 11 back into order, and proceed 12 by calling Case: 05-011, 13 filed by Paul Knuth of 14 Ivanhoe Huntley Companies, 15 for Wellington Ridge 16 Condominiums, located at 12 17 Mile between Meadowbrook and 18 Novi Road. 19 We have -- you have with you -- 20 I know one of you is probably an attorney. 21 MR. KNUTH: I'm Paul Knuth from 22 Ivanhoe Huntley Homes; and this is Alan Greene 23 from Dykema-Gossett. 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. And the 71
1 other gentleman? 2 MR. KNUTH: That's Ken Kusek from 3 Dykema-Gossett, also. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. So the 5 only people we need to swear in is you, 6 Mr. Knuth? 7 MR. KNUTH: Mr. Greene is going 8 to do most of the talking, so probably the two of 9 us. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You still need 11 to be sworn in. 12 MR. KNUTH: Right. 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: So would you 14 please raise your right hand. 15 We don't swear in the attorneys. 16 MEMBER SANGHVI: We don't swear 17 at them. 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: They're 19 exempt. We'll go ahead and swear you in. 20 MEMBER BAUER: Do you solemnly 21 swear or affirm to tell the truth regarding case, 22 05-011? 23 MR. KNUTH: I do. 24 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you, sir. 72
1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. You 2 may proceed. 3 MR. GREENE: Thank you 4 -- that's why. 5 Well, thank you and I tell the 6 truth, too. My name is Alan Greene. I work with 7 Ivanhoe Huntley, and I have been working on this 8 project with Ivanhoe for -- it's been a little 9 over two years now. I'm not going to spend a lot 10 of time, but I just want to summarize a little 11 bit of what we're trying to do and what we're 12 asking you for today, and give you the reasons 13 why. 14 We're seeking a use variance to 15 build a site -- kind of -- excuse me -- a 16 multi-family condominium project. The property 17 at issue is on the northside of 12 Mile. It's 18 9.72 acres. It's east of Novi Road. It's 19 currently split zoned. The front three acres is 20 zoned for office use; and the rear seven acres is 21 zoned for residential use, single-family 22 residential use. 23 Our proposed use is -- it is 24 essentially comparable to an RM-1 multi-family 73
1 use. The surrounding land use, as you can sort 2 of see in that aerial -- if we put it up on the 3 board -- we have the Oakland Hills Memorial 4 Cemetery to the north -- to the west of the 5 property to the rear; there's an office -- a 6 little office project on the front of the site, 7 west of the property; 12-Oaks Mall is -- you 8 can't really see it, puts it's just south of the 9 other side of 12 Mile; and the Michigan State 10 University Toll Gate Farm property is on the east 11 side of the property. 12 And you can see that the east 13 side of the property has some woodlands there, 14 some nice wooded areas. It's attached to the 15 Toll Gate Farms property. 16 Briefly, let me just tell you -- 17 I don't know if you know about our company, 18 Ivanhoe Huntley. It's a company that's known for 19 environmentally sensitive developments throughout 20 Southeast Michigan. We've got projects in 23 21 communities. We've won various State and 22 National awards for our communities. And at 23 whatever price range our communities -- we try to 24 believe -- we hope they're unique design for the 74
1 particular site. 2 We look for unique interesting 3 sites that have interesting natural features; and 4 -- and this site proved to be a very difficult 5 site; and that's why we spent a lot of time on 6 this property. 7 Little bit of the history here, 8 just so you know how we came here. We put this 9 property under contract in January of 2003, so 10 it's been a little over two years. We spent the 11 next few months looking at alternatives for the 12 property. I mean, we also do office building 13 development, so we're not limited to residential. 14 We looked at -- looking at the 15 property for office development. We also looked 16 at it for a variety of different types of 17 condominium/residential development. We made it 18 very clear early on that a mixed use would work 19 on this property; the way it's split-zoned out. 20 You can see the shape of the property. It's very 21 narrow. It's not very large. It has limited 22 road frontage. It's got a variety of land uses 23 surrounding it. 24 It's right across from the mall, 75
1 12 Mile, in that location, it's heavy traffic. 2 It's got a little office up front so, it wasn't 3 enough land to simply try to do some sort of 4 split zoning; particularly, single-family 5 residential back there -- isolated from any other 6 residential land, behind an office property -- 7 was not going to work. 8 So we looked at those, too, but 9 we concluded that it was a much better site for 10 residential. We even laid out some office, you 11 know, properties in there. 12 And, so we came to the City in 13 April of 2003, with a rezoning request for RM-1. 14 At that time we had asked for -- we had a plan 15 that showed 94 condominium units for this 16 properties. A lot of time meeting, discussions 17 with the City, got to the master plan, the Zoning 18 Committee, in November of 2003. 19 That was an interesting process, 20 too, because, we were working on the master plan 21 at the time; and there was controversy among the 22 group, as to what the City wanted to do with this 23 property at that point in time. 24 So there is no recommendation; 76
1 they just didn't make any recommendation. One 2 person thought, well, maybe I'll put commercial 3 over here; somebody else thought that the 4 residential condominium was a great transitional 5 use. Someone else thought maybe we should put 6 all office there. It was real confusion as to -- 7 on the City's part -- as to what it really wanted 8 to do with this area. 9 At that point in time we had -- 10 we were given some direction that the City wanted 11 to preserve the idea that the Toll Gate Farm 12 property -- if it ever were to come on the market 13 or be developed -- should be directed more 14 towards residential. 15 The City wanted to keep 16 residential north of 12 Mile; and keep all the 17 businesses south of 12 Mile. That was sort of 18 the direction that we had gotten. We went to the 19 Planning Commission on our rezoning in February 20 2004. The Planning Commission recommended 21 against it; but I thought there was a good 22 dialogue. 23 There was -- the Planning 24 Commission raised some concerns about the density 77
1 and concern about preserving more trees. But 2 several members of the Planning Commission 3 thought the residential use that we were 4 proposing was a reasonable use. And they liked 5 the aspects of the project. 6 Before the City council acted on 7 the rezoning request, we had conversations with 8 the City Staff Administration, and were urged or 9 persuaded at that time to file for a PRO 10 application. It's a brand new Ordinance the City 11 had just adopted. We were the first ones 12 actually to persue that, so we put everything on 13 hold, so the city could finish adopting the 14 Ordinance prepared their application form; and 15 then we submitted that. 16 And at that point in time, we 17 revised the plan -- and maybe I'll put that on 18 right now. In devising the PRO application, 19 itself, we took the comments that we received 20 from the Planning Commission in the rezoning, and 21 made revisions to the plan. We changed it 22 enormously; changed the units, reduced the 23 density. 24 We now have -- I think it's 64 78
1 units and eight buildings. We shifted the 2 buildings over as much as possible to preserve 3 the tree line, you know, next to the Toll Gate 4 property. Created a buffer up front with the 5 retention pond; and also -- I could also show 6 you, just so you know what we were talking 7 about -- the types of units we're talking 8 about -- I'll show you two pictures -- are -- 9 they're fairly interesting architecturally, and 10 they're not the same. 11 We have three different types, 12 from ranch units to two stories and townhouse 13 units. So a variety of housing within a small 14 project; so you can have different sorts of 15 people. Empty nesters, who don't want to take a 16 lot of stairs, want a ranch unit. So we came up 17 with some interesting designs, specifically, that 18 we thought would work on the sight. 19 We went to the Planning 20 Commission meeting in November of 2004, and 21 surprising to us, unfortunately the Planning 22 Commission, by a split vote, voted against it. A 23 couple of people supported it, and others did not 24 support it. 79
1 And then in January of 2004, we 2 went to the City Council, and they -- and they 3 followed the recommendation of the majority of 4 the Planning Commission, and denied our request 5 for rezoning. 6 We're seeking a use variance 7 here for this project. Again, we believe that 8 there are practical difficulties and unnecessary 9 hardships here with respect to this property. 10 Again, overall, the sight is really too small for 11 a mixed land use under the current zoning. And 12 it has a variety of land uses surrounding it. 13 It's really a potential site for 14 transitional land use; and that's really what we 15 tried to do. But by putting a condominium 16 project that would take the benefit of the 17 intense commercial across the street -- people 18 can walk there and shop. On the other hand, it 19 provided a transitional land use. So you're not 20 really binding the Toll Gate property to 21 anything. 22 So in the future, if that 23 property becomes available, you could almost put 24 office, if you want. You could put single-family 80
1 residential; multi-family residential. This type 2 of project is transitional use that would work 3 with all of those. 4 We also pointed out that the 5 traffic situation for this kind of project 6 compared to like doing an office use -- which we 7 have looked at -- there would be significantly 8 less traffic; and we provided that information to 9 the City and the impact. Also, one of the unique 10 features of the site was the wooded area. We 11 tried to -- this type of use allowed us some 12 flexibility to preserve that area as much as 13 possible. So we've got a really nice stand of 14 trees in the buffer area with that. 15 The other thing, too, I want to 16 point out is, under the current zoning -- and I 17 think this was recognized even in the Master Plan 18 Committee -- the current zoning, it's really not 19 marketable. No matter what somebody's going to 20 do with the property, it's not going to be 21 developed in split zoning, single-family 22 residential in the back -- that isolated little 23 seven acres, surrounded by a cemetery, office and 24 the Toll Gate property -- is -- and you'd have to 81
1 drive through an office or business property to 2 get into it; and it was not marketable. 3 This property has been on the 4 market continuously since 1999, listed by the 5 Duke Company. And, you know, they're a very 6 reputable firm. And It's my understanding -- I 7 confirmed that even as of today -- other than 8 Ivanhoe's offer, which is pending -- they've kept 9 the property on the market because Ivanhoe hasn't 10 purchased it yet -- they've not received a single 11 offer for this property from anybody for any use. 12 It's a very difficult piece. 13 It's a small piece. It's a transitional project. 14 For even Ivanhoe, it's not -- it wasn't a major 15 project when we first looked at it. It's turned 16 into being a two year project; but that wasn't 17 the initial intent. So it's a very difficult 18 piece to develop and to market under it's current 19 zoning. 20 The -- I think -- I think the 21 other concern person we faced is the difficulty 22 with what I thought were shifting City concerns. 23 When we first started going through this process 24 two years ago, and for almost the last year and a 82
1 half, there was a strong -- we were getting a 2 strong sense that the City wanted residential 3 north of 12 Mile Road. 4 At the City Council meeting at 5 the end of last year, before we came here, there 6 was one or two members of City Council denying 7 the rezoning, suggested that they didn't want to 8 see anymore residential north of 12 Mile. They 9 didn't want to see any more residential in the 10 City of Novi. 11 And that sort of took us a 12 little bit by surprise because that's what we 13 thought this area was sort of targeted for not 14 really business use, but residential. All the 15 business uses is south and west, as well. 16 So, we would ask for this Board 17 to approve a use variance to allow the 18 development of the condominium units we're 19 proposing, limited to the units and the type of 20 units, the density we're proposing. We would 21 understand, you know, even if such a use variance 22 were granted, we would -- this is a conceptual 23 site plan; that we would have to go through, you 24 know, engineering and site planning, you know, 83
1 with the Planning Commission, consistent with 2 that. 3 So, you know, nothing would end 4 at this Body. This is just whether or not we're 5 allowed to use the land for the type of land use 6 that we're proposing. 7 I sort of ran through if pretty 8 fast, but if you have any questions at all about 9 the project -- we gave you a bunch of materials; 10 and there's a lot of history here, and I didn't 11 just want to repeat it for you. 12 So thank you very much. 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Th 14 ank you. 15 Is there anyone in the audience 16 that wishes to make comment in regards to this 17 case? 18 MS. BUNGHAUS(ph): Debbie 19 Bunghaus, Novi/Twelve Mile Roads. I just have a 20 question as to the zoning; which is split zoning. 21 And that seems to be normal for some of us on the 22 north side of 12 Mile. 23 The question is, whether or not 24 a Petitioner or the City has to have that parcel 84
1 split into the two different zonings; or, in 2 fact, if it is a legitimate split -- because it 3 came originally from the cemetery area. So I'd 4 be interested in finding out both of those. 5 Whether or not the City or a Petitioner asked for 6 the rezoning originally, and if it was a 7 legitimate split from the cemetery property. 8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 9 ay. Thank you. 10 Is there anyone else in the 11 audience that wishes to make comment? 12 Seeing none, there were 86 13 notices sent; one objection from a William 14 Vanlabing(ph) 28728 Corey Court in Novi. His 15 only objection is that there is too many condos 16 in the area. 17 Building Department? 18 MR. SAVEN: No comment. 19 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr. 20 Gilliam? 21 MR. GILLIAM: Yes, 22 ma'am. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Since this is 24 a use arrest variance that the Petitioner is 85
1 seeking, and given the amount of information that 2 they presented to us this evening, I don't feel 3 that this Board is in any capacity to view this 4 case this evening; and there are significant 5 requirements that need to be display by the 6 Petitioner under the Unnecessary Hardship Rule, 7 so to speak. And I didn't hear a lot of that 8 this evening. 9 Given that, I don't know that we 10 can make any ruling on this case this evening, 11 and would -- my fellow Board Members would not 12 object, and would recommend that this case be 13 tabled at this time. 14 MR. GILLIAM: It's 15 obviously an option that you 16 have. I guess the one 17 comment I would make is if 18 there's -- at this point in 19 time -- if there's any 20 specific information that you 21 think you would like to 22 obtain from the Applicants 23 that you didn't have, you can 24 let them know, or subsequent 86
1 to the next meeting -- if, in 2 fact this is tabled -- you 3 could go through the 4 materials -- if you find that 5 there are other things that 6 you would like to know, then 7 you let Mr. Saven's office 8 know. He can let us know, 9 and we can pass that along to 10 the applicant. 11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Me 12 mber Brennan? 13 MEMBER BRENNAN: There was a 14 substantial amount of back-up information. I 15 guess I'd like to ask the Building Department 16 whether you and other departments have had an 17 opportunity to really sift through this all? 18 MR. SAVEN: I think there was a 19 tremendous amount of information that's in the 20 packet, but as the applicant indicated, this is 21 basically conceptual, correct. 22 MR. GREENE: When I 23 say conceptual, it's pretty 24 solid. I mean, these other 87
1 units that we're proposing to 2 build, the building size is 3 -- when I say -- it's not 4 final engineer. So you don't 5 have the final engineering 6 details that you would get, 7 you know, later on, you know, 8 in terms of sewer and water, 9 and all that. But it's 10 not -- that's what I mean by 11 conceptual. 12 MR. SAVEN: I this if you go 13 back to the standards for the use variance, if 14 you take a look at those specific standards that 15 are required and you look at the particular 16 issues being brought up before you by these 17 individuals tonight, and maybe they can address 18 this at the next meeting. 19 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 20 ay. 21 Board members? 22 MEMBER BRENNAN: Well, I guess 23 maybe that's a good question to pose to the 24 Petitioner, if they're real clear on what it is 88
1 that this Board can consider as unnecessary 2 hardship for a use variance. 3 If they're clear on that and 4 would be prepared at future date to address those 5 line by line, because we didn't hear a lot of 6 that in tonight's presentation. We got a pitch 7 on the marketing scheme, but there wasn't a lot 8 of discussion about the property being unique or 9 that it couldn't be built RA. If it's seven 10 acres in the back, that's seven big homes on one 11 acre lots. I didn't hear why it couldn't be 12 done. 13 I guess I support the Chairman's 14 position that we consider tabling this at least 15 for now. 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Member 17 Fischer? 18 MEMBER FISCHER: I support the 19 Chairman's recommendation, as well. And I'd also 20 like to back-up what Member Brennan said; given 21 the basically the four things that we have to 22 look at when we're looking at a unnecessary 23 hardship. 24 One thing that I definitely need 89
1 more information on is that the property cannot 2 reasonably be used for a permitted purpose. I 3 felt that it was barely touched on in the 4 presentation. And I think that can go a long 5 way. A use variance definitely is much better 6 than a non-use variance. So we definitely need 7 to look at -- looking at the strict standards and 8 applying them in this case I believe, so. 9 I agree with the Chairman. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Th 11 ank you. 12 MEMBER FISCHER: Woman. 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Th 14 ank you. 15 I believe that at this time that 16 I would call to have this case tabled, unless the 17 Petitioner has anything else to ask of this 18 Board. But I echo Member Brennan's sentiments in 19 that we didn't really need the marketing plan. 20 What we need to hear are the reasons why this 21 cannot be used in any other way, shape or form. 22 So in preparing for your case -- 23 and we'll table this for next -- this Board will 24 be specifically looking for reasons to prove your 90
1 unnecessary hardship, as to why this property 2 cannot be used in any other way that it is zoned; 3 that the variance is not going to alter the 4 character of the area, and the standard set forth 5 under the ZBA Rules of Unnecessary Hardship. 6 I feel that that's the 7 Petitioner's burden of proof at this point, and I 8 did not hear enough. There is too much work -- 9 there is too much information here, and I don't 10 believe that the staff has even had enough time 11 it review this. 12 So, unless the Petitioner has 13 anything else to offer, I would like to table 14 this case until April. 15 Yes, sir? 16 MR. GREENE: We have 17 no objection to that. And 18 maybe what we'll do, too, is 19 -- a lot of the information 20 you're seeking is in the 21 material. But one of the 22 things we can do as well, is 23 sort of summarize it, in 24 accordance with your list of 91
1 standards, so it's altogether 2 for the next meeting; so you 3 can understand why we believe 4 that these standards should 5 be met, but I -- we have no 6 objection. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Wi 8 th all due respect, this is 9 the no-nonsense Board, so we 10 don't need the marketing 11 plans and all of that. With 12 all due respect, it looks 13 like a very nice complex. 14 But that's not where -- we 15 have to cut through all of 16 that and get right down to 17 the reasons that -- 18 MR. GREENE: Oh, I 19 understand. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: -- the 21 criteria -- 22 MR. GREENE: We left 23 the marketing stuff out of 24 here. 92
1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 2 ay. 3 MR. GREENE: You didn't get that. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. Thank 5 you. 6 Member Fischer? 7 MEMBER FISCHER: At this time I 8 would like to make a Motion to table 05-011 to 9 the April, 2005 Zoning Board of Appeals meeting. 10 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Is there any 12 further discussion on the Motion? 13 Seeing none, Gail, would you 14 please call the roll. 15 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 16 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 17 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 18 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 19 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 20 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 21 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 23 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 24 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 93
1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yo 2 ur case has been tabled until 3 April. I still feel like 4 it's December out there, so 5 that's why I'm pausing. 6 MR. GREENE: Do you 7 know what date that is in 8 April? 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It 10 's first the first Tuesday. 11 GAIL BACKUS: The 5th. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: April 5th. 13 MR. GREENE: April 14 5th, okay. 15 MR. GILLIAM: One 16 other comment, too, in the 17 meantime, I'll speak with Ms. 18 McBeth in the Planning 19 Department. (Unintelligible) 20 of her staff, and we'll see 21 if we can get answers to the 22 other questions that were 23 raised from the audience. 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: All 94
1 right. 2 Thank you very much, 3 Mr. Gilliam. 4 5 Okay. At this time -- we have 6 one last case. I will call for the final time 7 this evening, 05-012 -- still not present. 8 Board Members? 9 Member Fischer? 10 MEMBER FISCHER: As much as I 11 would like to deny it, due to the weather and the 12 circumstances outside -- it's in the Rules that 13 we can deny it if the Petitioner does not show. 14 But because of the weather, I'd like to table 15 this, as well, to the April, 2005 meeting. 16 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 18 ay. 19 All those in favor of tabling 20 Case, 05-012 to the April 5th meeting, say aye? 21 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Any opposed? 23 MEMBER BRENNAN: Aye. 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: One opposed. 95
1 Case 05-012 is tabled until 2 April. 3 4 Okay. Other matters. I have a 5 couple of things to say. First off, I'd like to 6 congratulate my fellow Board Member, Member 7 Sanghvi, and myself, who were thankfully 8 reappointed to the ZBA yesterday by the City 9 Council. We'd like to thank them for working so 10 diligently. I would have missed you guys. 11 I would still like to make it 12 known that we have a position opening for 13 alternate, and would like to invite anyone who is 14 in Novi that is interested in the Zoning Board -- 15 there is plenty of training and backing and 16 support, and look at how much fun we have with 17 these guys. So if anyone is interested, please 18 see Marianne Cornelius at the City Clerk's 19 office. 20 If you have any questions about 21 the ZBA, and if you're interested in joining, I'm 22 available; you can contact Marianne. She can 23 give you my phone number. I'd be more than 24 willing to discuss, if you have any questions 96
1 before you become -- before you fill out that 2 application. 3 And I would like to invite 4 anyone that's out there. It's been a long 5 winter. You can spend your Tuesday nights with 6 us one a month; and it's very entertaining. 7 Next month, is elections, so 8 we'll be doing nominations and elections. And I 9 want this on the table, I am not reapplying nor 10 will I accept any kind of appointment as 11 Chairwoman again. I would like to become a Board 12 Member. 13 I don't know, but just in case 14 anybody was -- you know, had any ideas. 15 MEMBER FISCHER: I don't think 16 anyone had that idea. 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok 18 ay. 19 Yeah, right. 20 So if anybody has any -- we'll 21 do elections at the end of next month's meeting. 22 Hopefully we'll have a full Board at that time. 23 Anything else? No. 24 Everybody drive home safely this 97
1 evening; and I officially adjourn the meeting for 2 this evening. 3 Thank you. 4 (The meeting was adjourned at 5 9:02 p.m.) 6 - - - - - 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 98
1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 3 I, Machelle R. 4 Billingslea-Moore, do hereby certify that I have 5 recorded stenographically the proceedings had and 6 testimony taken in the above-entitled matter at the 7 time and place hereinbefore set forth, and I do 8 further certify that the foregoing transcript, 9 consisting of (93) typewritten pages, is a true and 10 correct transcript of my said stenograph notes. 11 12 13 Machelle R. Billingslea-Moore 14 Certified Shorthand Reporter 15 16 March 24, 2005. (Date)
|