| View Agenda for this meeting View Action Summary for this meeting REGULAR MEETING - ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Proceedings had and testimony taken in the matters of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, Tuesday, September 13, 2005. BOARD MEMBERS ALSO PRESENT: REPORTED BY:
1 Novi, Michigan. 2 Tuesday, September 13, 2005 3 7:30 p.m. 4 - - - - - 5 MEMBER FISCHER: I would like to 6 call the order the September, 2005, Zoning Board 7 of Appeals meeting. 8 Ms. Backus, will you please call 9 the roll. 10 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer, 11 absent the excused. 12 Member Brennan? 13 MEMBER BRENNAN: Here. 14 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup, 15 absent excused. 16 Member Fischer? 17 MEMBER FISCHER: Present. 18 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 19 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Here. 20 GAIL BACKUS: Member Krieger? 21 MEMBER KRIEGER: Here. 22 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Here. 24 MEMBER FISCHER: All right.
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1 Five members are present. We do have a quorum. 2 The meeting is now in session. 3 I would like to go over a couple 4 of rules of conduct. Please turn off all cell 5 phones and pagers at this particular time. And 6 also, please remember that individuals will have 7 five minutes to address the Board; and groups 8 addressing the Board will have ten minutes. 9 There are some other rules of the conduct on the 10 agenda. Please feel free to look over them. 11 The Zoning Board of Appeals is a 12 Hearing Board empowered by the Novi City Charter 13 to hear appeals seeking variances from the 14 application of the Novi Zoning think Ordinance. 15 It takes a vote of at least four members to 16 approve a variance request; and a vote of the 17 majority present to deny a variance. 18 Tonight we do have at this time 19 five members present. And since a full Board is 20 not present, those Petitioners who which to table 21 their request until next meeting, or when a full 22 Board is present, may do so at this time. 23 Is there anyone that does wish 24 to table their case?
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1 Seeing none, we'll move along to 2 the agenda. 3 Are there any changes to the 4 agenda? 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: No. 6 MEMBER FISCHER: Seeing none, 7 I'll entertain a Motion to approve as submitted? 8 MR. SANGHVI: So moved. 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Second. 10 MEMBER FISCHER: It's been moved 11 and seconded. 12 All in favor say Aye? 13 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 14 MEMBER FISCHER: The agenda is 15 approve. So now we have one. 16 And we will move onto approval 17 of the Minutes in our packets. Let's see, we did 18 receive July 12th, 2005 meeting, as well as the 19 August 2nd 2005 meeting. 20 Does anyone have any changes to 21 the Minutes? 22 Member Krieger? 23 MEMBER KRIEGER: I do. 24 On the August 2nd meeting on
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1 Page 73, lines five through ten, were made by 2 Cynthia Gronachan, and not myself. If they could 3 correct that. 4 MEMBER FISCHER: Page 73, lines 5 five through ten. 6 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 7 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. We'll 8 note that, make those changes. 9 Any other changes to the 10 Minutes? 11 Seeing none, I'll entertain a 12 Motion to approve the August's and July's, as 13 amended? 14 MEMBER SANGHVI: So moved. 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Second. 16 MEMBER FISCHER: There's a 17 Motion and a second. 18 All in favor say Aye? 19 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 20 MEMBER FISCHER: The Minutes 21 have been approved. 22 At this time, we'll move to the 23 public remarks section of the meeting. During 24 this time, I would ask anyone who would like to
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1 address the Board in a matter that does not 2 relate to a case tonight, to please come to the 3 podium. 4 Seeing none, we'll close the 5 public remarks -- 6 MR. SAVEN: Mr. Chairman? 7 MEMBER FISCHER: Yes, Mr. Saven? 8 MR. SAVEN: Mr. Chairman, 9 Members of the Board, I'd like to mention that -- 10 you are aware that this is a later ZBA date than 11 we had previously, like we had before. It is 12 imperative to mention should anybody decide to 13 table a case today, that they would have the 14 necessary information to us by Thursday of this 15 week, so it could get on to the next agenda. 16 MEMBER FISCHER: Point well 17 taken. 18 Thank you, Mr. Saven. 19 If anyone does have the chance 20 to table a case, pleas do be reminded that it is 21 a short month, as far as material gathering goes. 22 So Thursday is the date, correct? 23 MR. SAVEN: That is correct. 24 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you.
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1 Any other public comments? 2 Seeing none, we'll close the 3 public remarks section of the meeting tonight. 4 And we'll go ahead and call our 5 first case. 6 7 Tonight we have Case Number, 8 05-054 filed by George Baczewski, a residence at 9 1945 West Lake drive. The Petitioner is 10 requesting four side yard variances for the 11 construction of a new home located at said 12 address; Lot 18, Bentley Subdivision. 13 And will you please raise your 14 hand to be sworn in by our secretary. 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you swear 16 or affirm that the information that you're about 17 to give in the matter before you is the truth? 18 MR. BACZEWSKI: I do. 19 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you. 20 Please state your name and 21 address for the record, and proceed. 22 MR. BACZEWSKI: My name is 23 George Baczewski. My house is at 1945 West Lake 24 Drive.
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1 Good evening. 2 Our first meeting, that was 3 tabled, I was asking for, I guess, a little bit 4 too much. I was speaking with Mr. Saven, and he 5 mentioned that for the side variance of five feet 6 would be like a minimum or, I'd be getting into 7 serious fire-retardant materials and be costly 8 cause. 9 And so I would a -- after that, 10 I agreed on -- I would like the five feet on both 11 sides; giving me a house of 21 feet wide. The 12 front setback which is 30 feet, which is all 13 right by me. I spoke with most of my neighbors 14 last time, and most of them didn't have a problem 15 with what I wanted to do; except for Greg, which 16 is my immediate neighbor to the south. 17 I spoke with him this morning 18 and he mentioned that he had some concerns on 19 the -- how close the distance from the back of 20 the house from the road; that I would not impair 21 his view of the lake. And I measured my house 22 and his house, and my house came out to be, I 23 believe 96 feet from the road; and his was eight 24 feet farther -- closer to the water.
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1 And he said he didn't have a 2 problem as long as I don't go farther into that, 3 which he's here and can attest to that. 4 Other than that, the square 5 footage of the house will be slightly over 25 6 percent allotted, which comes out to be, I 7 believe only -- it's you know 50 square feet 8 above the 25 percent. And with that, being said, 9 I believe that's all I have. 10 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, sir. 11 I would like to remind the Board 12 Members, as well as anyone in the audience that 13 this case was tabled from the July 12th meeting. 14 So, at this time, there were -- 15 for this case, this month, there were zero 16 approvals and zero objections out of 43 notices 17 sent. Is there anyone in the audience that 18 wishes to address the Board regarding this case. 19 MR. GANNETIK: Hi. My name is 20 Greg Gannetik. I am George's southside neighbor 21 at 1947 West Lake Drive. 22 As George had mentioned, him and 23 I did have a conversation today. And one thing 24 that I would like to see put into a Motion
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1 provided this is approved, is that from the 2 southwest corner of the property -- the road side 3 south side corner, the proposed construction 4 should project into the property no greater than 5 96 feet. And that would preserve sight lines, I 6 think for the neighboring houses and not cause 7 any issues. 8 Once again, I talked to George 9 about that this afternoon. He had no issues. He 10 thought that would be the maximum he would need . 11 He didn't know if he would need that much, but I 12 would like to see that in the Motion, if 13 possible. 14 Thank you. 15 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, sir. 16 Is there anyone else in the 17 audience that wishes to address the Board? 18 MS. VONDRAK: Oh, sure. My name 19 is Renee Vondrak. I'm the house directly behind 20 George, and kitty-corner to Greg. It's 44943 21 Cobblestone. 22 I once again have no objections 23 to this. And also I feel that George's house, if 24 he puts it up there, as long as it is not passed
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1 the neighbor on the left side, actually of him, 2 should be fine. Does that make sense. If it 3 wasn't forward, it wouldn't block the view of 4 either home, that way to either side of him. 5 I think it's eight feet or three 6 feet or something like that he has. 7 So, that's it. 8 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you very 9 much for your comments. 10 Anyone else in the audience that 11 wishes to address the Board at this time? 12 Seeing none, I'll ask the 13 Building Department? 14 Mr. Saven? 15 MR. SAVEN: Thank you, sir. 16 Just as a point of interest, one 17 of the things a around the lake side that we 18 are -- and any other community or subdivision -- 19 we do allow decks, decks with fences basically 20 around it and surrounding it. No coverings, is 21 allowed to project up to 18 feet into the 22 required setback. 23 Are you looking at any 24 structures, when you were here before the Board
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1 testifying to the 96 feet. 2 MR. GANNETIK: No, no, just the 3 house, itself; not including the deck. 4 MR. SAVEN: I just wanted to 5 clarify that. 6 MR. GANNETIK: Correct. 7 MR. SAVEN: There is a provision 8 in the Ordinance that does alow decks to be 9 constructed. 10 MR. GANNETIK: Understandable. 11 MR. SAVEN: Okay. 12 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 13 Mr. Saven. 14 Board members? 15 Member Brennan? 16 MEMBER BRENNAN: Well, I wasn't 17 hear last month, but it sure looks like he 18 listened to what we recommended. The house is 19 centered. He's got a small lot. You're building 20 a 21 foot wide house. Good golly. You're back 21 off the road 30 feet, and what we've always tried 22 to push, so that there is sufficient parking. 23 You're at a distance off the road that meets your 24 neighbors' requirements.
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1 Sounds like you did what we 2 asked you to do, and I would support it -- your 3 presentation tonight. 4 MEMBER FISCHER: Member Krieger? 5 MEMBER KRIEGER: I agree with the 6 previous speaker, that's in the previous 7 information that was given that he made an 8 efforts to go with what the Board recommended, so 9 I also would support a Motion. 10 MEMBER FISCHER: Any other Board 11 Members? 12 Seeing none, Member Brennan? 13 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. I will 14 make a Motion with respect to Case 05-054, that 15 the Petitioner's plans be approved, due to lot 16 configuration; and subjected to the layout that's 17 submitted here, which is a house that's facing 18 the lake 96 feet off the roadway; and the 19 setbacks as requested. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Second. 21 MEMBER FISCHER: There's a 22 Motion and a second. 23 Any further discussion on the 24 Motion?
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1 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. That it 2 also include what the speakers were mentioning, 3 to preserve sight line on the water and to the 96 4 feet. 5 MEMBER FISCHER: I believe 6 Member Brennan did mention the 96, so -- 7 MEMBER KRIEGER: Okay. 8 Thank you. 9 MEMBER FISCHER: So we are all 10 set with that. 11 Ms. Backus, will you please call 12 the roll. 13 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 14 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 15 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 16 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 17 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 19 GAIL BACKUS: Member Krieger? 20 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 21 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 23 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes five 24 to zero.
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1 MEMBER FISCHER: Your Motion -- 2 your variance has been granted. 3 Please see the Building 4 Department. 5 6 And next I'll call Case Number: 7 05-071 filed by Bart Wingblad for a vacant lot 8 located on the northeast corner of Grand River 9 Avenue. The Petitioner is requesting permission 10 to install a sign at the northeast corner of 11 Grand River Avenue and Beck Road from September 12 19th, 2005 through October 11th, 2005. 13 MR. WINGBLAD: My name is Bart 14 Wingblad. My address is 7772 Hirks Road, 15 Brighton, Michigan 48114. 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Would you 17 please raise your right hand do be sworn in. 18 Do you swear or affirm the 19 information that you're about to give in the 20 matter before you is the truth? 21 MR. WINGBLAD: I do. 22 What I'm asking for -- well, 23 first of all, I want to thank the Board for 24 allowing me to appear before you on this matter.
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1 And I'm going to apologize in advance. I'm not a 2 very eloquent speaker, but I'll do the best I 3 can. 4 I'm asking for a one-time only 5 variance to put up a sign, a large sign -- same 6 sign that we put -- were allowed to put up last 7 year; that the City as very, very generous to 8 allow us to put up last year. And there was some 9 courageous people that helped us push it through. 10 It's for a 20th anniversary benefit for Angela 11 Hospice, we have ever year. 12 This will be a one-time only 13 request on our part. I'm here representing 14 Angela Hospice. I am the owner of the property 15 currently. The property is being sold. And as I 16 said in my packet that I submitted, we'll never 17 have another opportunity to have the exposure 18 that we're going to have with this. We just want 19 to take advantage of it. 20 The closest resident to the east 21 or the west on Grand River are several miles 22 away. To the north, you're just under a mile; 23 and to the south, you're just over a half a mile. 24 And those are condominiums, which set far off the
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1 road. 2 We want to illuminate the sign 3 at night. We're asking that we put it up -- that 4 we're allowed to put it on September 19th, 5 actually do construction and put it up. It will 6 be installed by a professional sign company. And 7 it will come down on the 10th. Before midnight 8 on the 10th it will come down. 9 And also we're -- my firm is 10 proposing to give to the City -- as a gesture of 11 appreciation -- and I want to make sure that it's 12 not qualified as a bribe, because Angela Hospice 13 is much more deserving of this. (Unintelligible) 14 some scare when we label it as a gesture of 15 appreciation. We really want to be able to put 16 this sign up. But we've offered up to donate 17 $2,000 to whatever City program the City wishes. 18 We're a long time corporate resident in Novi. I 19 know it's a unique request, and -- but Angela 20 Hospice is a very unique place and I'm very 21 passionate about it. 22 I did put in my packet that -- 23 well, I put two things. One, I put a list of 24 criteria for future consideration, for future
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1 people that come after us, so that we don't put 2 you in the position where we set a precedent; and 3 I hope those things will qualify as a deterrent 4 to other people to take advantage of any 5 favorable consideration we might receive. 6 And also I put that there are 7 currently a minimum -- well, at the time this was 8 made, there was a minimum of ten large billboards 9 in the City of Novi. There now exists 11. They 10 just put up a new one on the north side of 96. I 11 know MDOT got some control over that, and that's 12 all I know. I'm not going to pretend to be more 13 familiar with it than that. 14 But I think if the rules should 15 apply -- and if we are denied -- then they should 16 apply to everyone. That's my personal opinion. 17 We're asking to put up a sign for three weeks. 18 It's a large sign. It's on property that I own. 19 It's on a piece of land that is currently used as 20 heavy industrial, because it was originally 21 started that way. It's zoned, I think, office 22 now. 23 Thank you. 24 MEMBER FISCHER: All set.
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1 MR. WINGBLAD: Yep. 2 MEMBER FISCHER: All right. 3 In this case, 14 notices were 4 mailed out, and there were zero approvals, zero 5 objections; with three letters returned. 6 Does anyone in the audience wish 7 to address the Board regarding this case? 8 Seeing none, I'll ask the 9 Building Department for -- 10 MR. SAVEN: Mr. Chairman. 11 Each case that comes before you 12 is based on its own merit. And I'm really sorry 13 to say, this is highly inappropriate for you to 14 mention anything about money or gratuities or 15 anything like this in your presentation. I 16 really have a problem with that. 17 This Board works very hard in 18 taking cases as they come and what's before 19 them -- even just the mention of it, could be an 20 impropriety, as far as I'm concerned. 21 And at this time, I'll probably 22 let our attorney mention something here. I'm not 23 trying to do anything out of the sorts here. 24 We're going to review your case based on its own
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1 merit, okay. 2 MEMBER FISCHER: Mr. Schultz? 3 MR. SCHULTZ: Mr. Chair, I think 4 it would be sufficient, for tonight's purposes, 5 if the Chair would just thank Mr. Wingblad for 6 the offer and expressly decline it, unrelated to 7 what the Board's about to do. 8 MEMBER FISCHER: Correct. And I 9 would hundred percent agree. 10 MR. WINGBLAD: Thank you. 11 MEMBER FISCHER: As our 12 Administration said, we do appreciate the offer, 13 but it isn't related to the case and we're going 14 to take the case for the material you've 15 presented; striking that from our consideration 16 at this time. 17 Any other comments from the 18 Administration? 19 MR. SAVEN: No. 20 MEMBER FISCHER: Board members? 21 Member Brennan? 22 MEMBER BRENNAN: Personally, 23 anything involving Hospice I would support. They 24 took good care of my dad in his last days.
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1 Personally I would support anyone who has 2 association with Sister Mary Giovanni, as I have 3 a long relationship with nuns. Your organization 4 does good work. 5 MR. WINGBLAD: Thank you, sir. 6 MEMBER BRENNAN: And for the 7 sake of three weeks on a corner that's virtually 8 vacant because of construction, I think this is 9 very good cause. 10 MEMBER FISCHER: Member 11 Gronachan. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Where are 13 those wings and halo? 14 MEMBER BRENNAN: I said I had a 15 long association with nuns. 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Oh, so you're 17 still working on getting them. Okay. 18 MR. SAVEN: He's talking about 19 rulers. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I concur 21 with Member Brennan. I also would strongly 22 concur with the City Attorney in regards to the 23 request of any kind of financial involvement to 24 the this Board.
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1 And we all reiterate this very 2 strongly, because we feel very strongly about it. 3 Each case comes to this Board on its own merit. 4 This is a unique situation, and given the fact 5 that you are the owner of the property has given 6 some weight to my individual decision on this 7 case. 8 I do have question for you, and 9 I don't know if I read this and I've forgot, how 10 large is this sign for the record? 11 MR. WINGBLAD: This sign is 12 large. It's -- the actual square of the sign -- 13 there's a picture there -- that's about 16 feet 14 wide. On both sides, there's four charicatures, 15 which are not the full height, but they add to 16 the sign; and they make it the -- they give it 17 the -- they make it funny, cute, I don't know 18 what word I'm am looking for. These total 19 approximately 14 feet total; seven feet on both 20 sides. 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 22 And the overall height? 23 MR. WINGBLAD: The height is 24 about 12 feet. We can lower it. We put some
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1 skirting, if you look at the picture. We put 2 some skirting there. We would like to do the 3 same thing, but that skirting was about 12 feet. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 5 You mention the about the 6 illumination. 7 MR. WINGBLAD: Yes. 8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you have 9 certain hours on the illumination? 10 MR. WINGBLAD: Well, I was 11 thinking from dark to morning. The lights would 12 go on with a sensor when it gets dark, they'll go 13 on. And I don't know if there's a way to put a 14 timer on it. I'm sure there is. If there's 15 something that the Board would like us to do, I'm 16 sure we can find a way to do it. 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Well, in 18 looking at this, my only concern is a safety 19 concern from those lights shining as it gets 20 darker after midnight on the road -- I mean, is 21 anybody from the City going to review this, to 22 make sure that these lights are not shining off 23 into any directing? 24 Will that be looked at,
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1 Mr. Saven? 2 MR. SAVEN: If that's the 3 request of the Board, we certainly can do that. 4 If there's a time factor that you're looking at 5 for reasonableness, I'm certain there's a good 6 time, put it on a timer and the lights will go 7 out at a certain time. 8 Just want to make sure in this 9 particular case that we don't have any problem 10 with corner clearance, in which it appears you 11 don't have any problems. 12 MR. WINGBLAD: May I address 13 the. 14 A. Board? 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Hang on one 16 second. 17 I would -- I am in support of 18 this sign. However, I would like it duly noted 19 that this sign be no larger than what's proposed 20 here, and that if it changes in any way, shape or 21 form, we need to be notified. And you don't have 22 a lot of days to do that. And I'm confident that 23 you're not going to change the sign. 24 MR. WINGBLAD: Oh, no. It's the
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1 same sign. 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: And there 3 would not be any safety hazards to the ongoing 4 traffic. That is a very busy intersection. 5 And I would ask the Ordinance 6 Department or the Building Department to review 7 the lighting. And I would suggest that it be 8 turned off at midnight or 1:00 a.m. I don't see 9 the importance of being on -- 10 MR. WINGBLAD: We can do that. 11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: -- from 12 midnight till morning. 13 MR. WINGBLAD: We can do that. 14 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 15 Member Gronachan. 16 Any other comments by Board 17 Members? 18 Member Krieger? 19 MEMBER KRIEGER: I concur with 20 the previous speakers, and I would just like to 21 add that if I'm correct, Angela Hospice, this is 22 part of the Felician Sisters? 23 MR. WINGBLAD: It is associated 24 -- it's on the grounds of the Felician Sisters,
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1 but it is in no way subsidized by the Felician 2 Sisters. It is totally independent. Sister 3 Giovanni is the founder, and she founded it 4 20-years ago. 5 But, it's not subsidized, but 6 she is a Felician Sister, and it's on their 7 grounds. But we're non-denominational and 8 nonprofit. 9 MEMBER KRIEGER: And I just 10 wanted to say that it's on the opposite corner of 11 Madonna University, which is where I went to 12 school. I think this was an excellent packet 13 that was put together. 14 I would support a Motion for it. 15 Thank you. 16 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you. I 17 agree, the packet was well put together. The 18 majority of the letter spelled out the case very 19 well; the same with the presentation. 20 As far as the lighting, I'm not 21 as concerned because I feel that it shines off 22 into -- away from the street, and into industrial 23 anyway. My only recommendation would be if the 24 maker of the Motion wants to put in a concern
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1 about the lighting; I would also like the 2 Building department to have jurisdiction over the 3 clearance as Member Saven said -- Mr. Saven said 4 -- clearance, concerning the corner and traffic 5 around there. 6 So, at this time, I'll look to 7 the Board Members for a Motion on this case? 8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 9 MEMBER FISCHER: Member 10 Gronachan? 11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: In Case 12 Number, 05-071, I move that we support the -- 13 approve the stated sign as presented to this 14 Board this evening for the dates of -- to be 15 installed on September 19th -- to be installed on 16 September 19th; and to be removed no later than 17 October 10th by midnight; that heights and size 18 be held to what was indicated this evening to 19 this Board. And that the timing of the lights 20 would be from dusk to midnight. And that the 21 jurisdiction of the safety concerns, such as the 22 intersection and the lighting be referred back to 23 the Building Department. 24 MEMBER FISCHER: There is a
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1 Motion. 2 Is there a second? 3 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second. 4 MEMBER FISCHER: There's a 5 Motion and a second now. 6 Is there any further discussion? 7 MEMBER FISCHER: Member Sanghvi? 8 MEMBER SANGHVI: Extend the Stag 9 decision to make the date to October 11th. 10 They're not going out there at midnight to bring 11 it down, you know? 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Accepted. 13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 14 MEMBER KRIEGER: Accepted. 15 MEMBER FISCHER: The seconder 16 agrees, as well. 17 Mr. Schultz? 18 MR. SCHULTZ: Very briefly, 19 Mr. chair. 20 Just in light of the fact this 21 is -- and the proponent (unintelligible) 22 something you need to consider in terms of the 23 next applicant or maybe even this applicant next 24 year, if there turns out to be issues.
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1 Probably some findings as to why 2 the things that occurred to me, on behalf of the 3 Chair? 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 5 MR. SCHULTZ: The location of 6 the proposes sign away from residential homes; 7 the limited duration of the actual installment; 8 and the nonprofit nature of the proponent; and 9 the lack of any kind of official objection to 10 last years sign, which kind of (unintelligible) 11 if it turns out to be an issue next year or the 12 year after. 13 So the Board has a fresh slate. 14 So those items I offer for your consideration. 15 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 16 Mr. Schultz. 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I accept those 18 and would like to make those apart of the Motion. 19 MEMBER KRIEGER: I accept that. 20 MEMBER FISCHER: The Motioner 21 and the seconder agree. 22 Any further discussion? 23 Seeing none, Ms. Backus, please 24 call the roll.
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1 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 3 GAIL BACKUS: Member Krieger? 4 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 5 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 6 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 7 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 8 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 9 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Aye. 11 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes five 12 to zero. 13 MR. WINGBLAD: Thank you so 14 very, very much. 15 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you. 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Good luck. 17 18 MEMBER FISCHER: And our next 19 case is Case Number, 05-072, filed by Pace 20 Nielson for the Home Depot located at 47950 Grand 21 River. The Petitioner is requesting a temporary 22 use permit, to allow a tent sale in the parking 23 lot of Home Depot at said address. 24 The tent will be there from
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1 September 23rd to October 16th, 2005. 2 And are you Mr. Nielson? 3 MR. NIELSON: I am Mr. Nielson. 4 Would you please raise your hand 5 and be sworn in by our secretary. 6 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you swear 7 or affirm that the information that you're about 8 to give in the matter before you is the truth? 9 MR. NIELSON: I do. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You may 11 proceed. 12 MR. NIELSON: My name is Pace 13 Nielson. I reside at 2813 Black Eagle Ridge in 14 Howell, Michigan. I am the store manager at the 15 Home Depot there on Grand River, and we are 16 requesting a variance to allow us to construct a 17 tent to merchandise rugs for a period not to 18 exceed the time frame there. It is a temporary 19 structure brought in by an outside company. 20 These are items typically not carried in the 21 store; which is, I guess, the unique nature of 22 it. It's not -- we're not bringing things from 23 inside the store outside of the store to sell 24 them.
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1 These are additional selections 2 that we, you know, offer from time to time and 3 varying stores; and this event kind of goes from 4 store to store, and we would like to do it here 5 at our location in Novi. It's roughly 40 by 80, 6 the tent is. We have drawn on the parking lot a 7 proposed area for it. In subsequent 8 conversations with the folks that do the event, 9 we would like to see something closer to the 10 building. I'm, you know, very open to wherever 11 you would prefer to see the tent, as it relates 12 to, you know, location in the parking lot. 13 My biggest concern is I don't 14 want to displace the convenience of my customers, 15 in terms of being able to park close to the 16 Building. Obviously, they don't want to be so 17 far away that it's difficult for people to get 18 there. So we compromised somewhere in the 19 middle, but if you have a feeling or a desire 20 where that's concerned, we're we can accommodate. 21 And that's all I have. 22 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, sir. 23 In this case, four notices were 24 mailed. There were zero approvals and zero
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1 objections. 2 Is there anyone in the audience 3 that wishes to comment on this case? 4 Seeing none, I'll ask the 5 Building Department for any comments? 6 Mr. Saven: Two issues. One, 7 relocation of that tent. I think it's in order 8 strictly for the fact that the road coming in 9 from the main road off of Grand River as you 10 approach the retail north, you'll notice that is 11 also a main track coming in, and I would want to 12 try to stay clear of that corner clearance -- 13 MR. NIELSON: Okay. 14 MR. SAVEN: -- for vision 15 purposes for trafficking? 16 MR. NIELSON: Okay. 17 MR. SAVEN: We could discuss 18 possibly a location closer to the building, as 19 you've indicated. 20 MR. NIELSON: Not a problem. 21 MR. SAVEN: (Unintelligible) the 22 tent is 40 by 80? 23 MR. NIELSON: 40 by 80. 24 MR. SAVEN: And it appears as
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1 though you may need to be cordoning this off so 2 that -- we're going watch pedestrian traffic, and 3 make sure he's not going to have any problems in 4 this area. Second issue I want to bring up, we 5 do need the approval from the owner of plaza. 6 MR. NIELSON: I do have that. I 7 called Gail after she had left for today, but -- 8 MR. SAVEN: Okay. Would you 9 please submit that for the record, please. 10 MR. NIELSON: Sure. 11 Can I -- 12 MEMBER FISCHER: Please. 13 Okay. 14 It does specify the dates, as 15 well as the Petitioner in this letter from Advant 16 Partners, supporting this request. 17 MR. SAVEN: Mr. Chairman, I'm 18 sorry. There was a third thing. In your packet 19 that you had was -- temporary use permits that 20 were allowed, as far as the previous history, was 21 placed on your desk this evening, which is 22 talking about the two cases in for '04. They 23 have one already from '05, for plantings, which 24 are consistent with what they do.
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1 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 2 Mr. Saven. 3 Any other comments? 4 Seeing none, we'll move to Board 5 discussion. 6 Member Brennan? 7 MEMBER BRENNAN: First of all, 8 this is a good corporate citizen. This is a good 9 company who keeps up their property. Is a good 10 business, takes a lot of my money. 11 MR. NIELSON: We appreciate 12 that. 13 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yeah. They 14 have a history of getting temporary use permits, 15 and as best as I know, we haven't had any reports 16 any issue with previous temporary use permits. 17 The Building Department, I'll 18 ask? 19 MR. SAVEN: I'm trying to 20 think -- 21 Allen, do you recall any? 22 MR. AMOLSCH: Just a 23 (unintelligible) outside storage problem 24 (unintelligible) the facility. I believe right
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1 now they are in compliance. 2 MEMBER BRENNAN: I don't have 3 any problem with this. I would -- if there was 4 any nodding on the Board, I would like to make a 5 Motion with respect to Don's comments about 6 relocating. I did leave that up the Building 7 Department to figure that out. 8 MEMBER FISCHER: Are there any 9 others? 10 MEMBER SANGHVI: The only concern 11 is the fire department (unintelligible)? 12 MR. SAVEN: We want to make sure 13 that the main traffic in the area is accessible. 14 We will have routes down all of their aisles 15 (unintelligible) to be adjacent to this 16 particular tent. Shouldn't be a problem. 17 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 18 MEMBER FISCHER: I also have a 19 question. 20 Is this specific to your store 21 or was there a reason -- is this going on at all 22 Home Depots? 23 MR. NIELSON: This is an event 24 that goes from store to store. There are certain
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1 areas where it does tend to do better. We would 2 be one of those areas, as opposed to some other 3 stores in some different geographic areas. But 4 it's not something that's necessarily especially 5 being done just for us. It will come to our 6 store from another Home Depot somewhere; and go 7 from our store to another Home Depot somewhere 8 else. 9 Does that answer your question? 10 MEMBER FISCHER: Yes, it does. 11 And would you prefer that we 12 discuss the tent location now or would it be 13 better now, or leave it -- 14 MR. SAVEN: I think what I'd 15 like to do, if it's okay with the Board, if you'd 16 leave that decision up to this Department. I 17 have the ability to take a look at the site and 18 probably choose a better location than where it 19 is at right now. 20 MR. NIELSON: Fair enough. 21 MEMBER FISCHER: I see nodding 22 on the Board -- 23 Member Gronachan? 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr. Saven,
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1 this would not go into the parking lot at all, 2 correct. 3 MR. SAVEN: Pardon? 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: This would 5 not go into parking lot? 6 MR. SAVEN: Oh, it is going to 7 be into the parking lot. 8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Isn't this 9 where the seasonal -- where your seasonal -- 10 MR. NIELSON: No. The -- 11 MEMBER BRENNAN: It's where the 12 X is. 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I'm looking 14 at the wrong thing. I can't support this. And 15 the reason why is because of this complex and all 16 of those retailers, and I don't understand the 17 purpose of this, the degree of practical 18 difficulty or hardship or anything. That is -- 19 this is a pretty bad location coming in there. I 20 cannot agree with the location at all, and I'm 21 not convinced that the purpose or the reason for 22 this has been clarified in this case. So I don't 23 know that I can support this. 24 MEMBER FISCHER: Member Brennan?
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1 MEMBER BRENNAN: Temporary use 2 permits state that the Building Department or his 3 designee -- which is us -- shall have the power 4 to grant permits authorized for temporary special 5 land uses for tenant sales, where permitted. 6 That's in our Code. It's been clarified why they 7 need it, the duration. 8 And at this point it is in 9 agreement that the Building Department to figure 10 out where to pull it. And I'm prepared to make a 11 Motion. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 13 MEMBER BRENNAN: With respect to 14 case 05-072, I would move for approval that the 15 Building Department has got the authorization to 16 issue a temporary use permit till the time 17 requested, with the understanding that the 18 location is going to be something worked out with 19 you and the Building Department, whatever makes 20 sense from the safety and common sense direction. 21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 22 MEMBER FISCHER: There is a 23 Motion and a second. 24 Mr. Saven?
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1 MR. SAVEN: Just a friendly 2 amendment. That it's limited to a 40 by 80 size 3 of the tent. No bigger. 4 MR. NIELSON: Oh, and I do have 5 a schematic and -- 6 MR. SAVEN: I just want to make 7 sure (unintelligible) cart blanch -- 8 MR. NIELSON: No. 9 MEMBER BRENNAN: I think that 10 was inside the packet, it's 40 by 80. 11 MR. NIELSON: I will not go 12 outside the tent. 13 MEMBER FISCHER: Does the 14 seconder agree or Member Sanghvi? 15 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 16 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 17 And Ms. Backus, will you please 18 call the roll. 19 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 20 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 21 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 23 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 24 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye.
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1 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 3 GAIL BACKUS: Member Krieger? 4 MEMBER KRIEGER. Yes. 5 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes five 6 to zero. 7 MEMBER FISCHER: Your variance 8 has been granted. Please see the Building 9 Department to work out the location; and good 10 luck. 11 MR. NIELSON: Thank you. 12 13 MEMBER FISCHER: I'd like to 14 call Case Number, 05-073 filed by Mr. Fawzi Tomey 15 of Jimmy John's Restaurant at 39765 Grand River 16 Avenue. 17 Petitioner's requesting another 18 temporary use permit to allow outdoor seating for 19 four tables at the business known as Jimmy 20 John's; and this is located at Pheasant Run 21 Plaza. 22 Are you Mr. Tomey? 23 MR. TOMEY: Yes, I am. 24 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. Would
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1 you please be sworn in by our secretary. 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you swear 3 or affirm that the information that you're about 4 to give in the matter before you is the truth? 5 MR. TOMEY: I do. 6 MEMBER FISCHER: Please state 7 your name and address and proceed. 8 MR. TOMEY: My first name is 9 Fawzi; and my last name is Tomey. And I reside 10 at 22355 Hesbrook, Northville, Michigan. I'm 11 here on my business at 39765 Grand River, Jimmy 12 John's. And I'm requesting to renew the permit 13 to permit us to put three -- four tables on the 14 outside so it would expand a little bit of our 15 seatings. We'll enjoy the business increase of 16 business during the summertime. 17 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, sir. 18 Is there anyone in the audience 19 that wishes to comment on this case? 20 MR. ALAWAN: Yes, I think I 21 would. 22 My name is Charles Alawan, and 23 I'm the property manager for Ali Faze, who owns 24 Pheasant Run. I would just like to say that we
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1 were a little setback about having that kind of 2 thing on our sidewalk. But I can tell you this. 3 This particular business and the Greek Isle, they 4 have done a fine job keeping the area clean; the 5 tables clean. It's orderly, and we have great 6 deal of attendance by their customers. 7 So I support it. I think it's 8 working out real good. We have a substantial 9 walk that's in the park of the building and the 10 architecture, and I think just to add a little 11 more color. It's been good. 12 MEMBER FISCHER: Your name 13 again, sir? 14 MR. ALAWAN: I'm the next person 15 on the list, Charles K. Alawan. 16 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 17 Is a there anyone else in the 18 audience that wishes to comment? 19 Seeing none, I'll ask the 20 Building department for comments? 21 MR. SAVEN: Just to point out, 22 this case was heard before you back in 2004 for a 23 period of one year and three tables. This one's 24 for four tables. And we even talked about an
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1 extended period of time. Normally, we look at 2 extended periods of time after the first trial 3 run. 4 MEMBER FISCHER: And have you 5 had any -- 6 MR. SAVEN: No, sir. 7 MEMBER FISCHER: And you, sir? 8 MR. AMOLSCH: No problems. 9 MEMBER FISCHER: Board Members, 10 I'll ask for discussion. 11 Member Brennan? 12 MEMBER BRENNAN: We've been 13 pretty consistent over the years. You do a good 14 job. Got no business with the property -- with 15 keeping it clean; I've got no problem with making 16 a Motion to approve this Case, 05-073 for -- 17 What would you recommend, Don, 18 two or three years? 19 MR. SAVEN: I think it's the 20 applicant's decision, what you would like to have 21 and whether we would -- 22 MR. TOMEY: I'm sorry. I didn't 23 hear. 24 MR. SAVEN: This Board is
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1 looking for a time factor for your approval. 2 MR. TOMEY: Oh. 3 MEMBER BRENNAN: Think you want 4 to do this for another couple years? 5 MR. TOMEY: Couple years would 6 be fine, because I'm opening two more; one on 7 Beck and Pontiac Trail; and one on the Promenade 8 within the next 12 to 15 months. 9 MEMBER BRENNAN: Let's make it 10 for the duration of two years, okay? 11 MR. TOMEY: Okay. 12 MEMBER BRENNAN: We have no 13 problem with four tables versus three, or as 14 submitted. 15 That's my Motion. 16 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 17 MEMBER FISCHER: There's a 18 Motion and a second. 19 I would like to mention -- 20 because I previously did not -- that there was 21 21 notices sent, and one approval. I believe we 22 received it in our packet, as well. It is from 23 the property manager of Pheasant Run Plaza. 24 So with that, any other
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1 discussion? 2 Seeing none, Ms. Backus, will 3 you please call the roll. 4 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 5 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 6 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 7 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 8 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 9 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 10 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 12 GAIL BACKUS: Member Krieger? 13 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 14 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes five 15 to zero. 16 MEMBER FISCHER: Your variance 17 has been granted for two years. Good luck. 18 MR. TOMEY: Thank you very much. 19 20 MEMBER FISCHER: At this time 21 we'll call Case Number, 05-074, filed by Charles 22 Alawan for Smoker's Merchant in Pheasant Run 23 Plaza. The Petitioner is requesting to install a 24 rolling grill door for security purposes to be
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1 located at 39877 Grand River Avenue. 2 And as previously stated, you 3 are Mr. Alawan? 4 MR. ALAWAN: Alawan, yes, sir. 5 MEMBER FISCHER: Please raise 6 your hand and be sworn in by our secretary. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you swear 8 or affirm that the information that you're about 9 to give in the matter before you is the truth? 10 MR. ALAWAN: I do. 11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 12 MR. ALAWAN: I'm the property 13 manager for Mr. Faze. I manage several 14 locations; one of them happens to be Pheasant 15 Run. 16 We were asked a year ago to 17 consider some kind of security for this 18 particular tenant, Smoker's Merchant. It's been 19 broken into several times. Two or three, four 20 times through the front entrance. He has 21 reinforced his store front with bars. He has 22 installed security systems, including 23 photographic equipment. 24 In fact, I think your police
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1 department did get a picture, but it wasn't good 2 enough to make any identification. They went 3 through the roof last winter, and we had 4 substantial cost, in terms of repairing it. 5 This is a hardship case. As a 6 matter of fact, on Monday, I noticed that the 7 police department had there vehicle out there to 8 give some presence to anyone who might be 9 considering it again. I'm sure they're just 10 waiting for little bit darker weather. 11 I looked into this matter after 12 it was presented to me, and I think -- I know 13 that it's esthetically okay with us. And because 14 of the canopy and the setback of the store, we 15 think that it won't hurt our image. I know that 16 the Ordinance refers to delivery and various 17 types of usage here. This is actually the front 18 of the store. This is the storefront, itself; 19 and that's where they're going through. 20 So we need to kind of seal it 21 off so we can get them some relief, as far as 22 insurance is concerned; and the wear and tear on 23 our store front. 24 So I appreciate your allowing us
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1 to appeal this; and I would appreciate your 2 consideration. 3 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, sir. 4 Is there anyone in the audience 5 that wishes to comment on this case? 6 Seeing none, we had 17 notices 7 mailed. There was one approval by the property 8 owner, himself; as well as we did receive from 9 Bodyan(ph) Bakki(ph), the attorney in fact or the 10 agent for the property owner, himself, also 11 supporting the request. 12 Building Department, any 13 comments? 14 MR. SAVEN: Well, this is a 15 tough case. I mean, of all the cases that come 16 before us, one of the things we are talking 17 about -- you have a beautiful plaza here. And to 18 see a rolling grill in the front, I'm sorry -- 19 it's just my opinion here -- for this to take 20 place, I mean, have we exhausted all remedies, I 21 would look at first before coming to this Board. 22 In your packet, you have a 23 letter from our lieutenant, Thomas Limberg, in 24 regards to this particular issue. And yes,
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1 they've had a problem, and getting up on the roof 2 and going through the roof -- I mean, this is a 3 tough scenario for this type of business. 4 MR. ALAWAN: We've had to 5 increase the lighting on roof at the rear of the 6 building. 7 MR. SAVEN: Sir, my question 8 would be, have you exhausted all remedies? 9 MR. ALAWAN: You know, we have. 10 If you would visit, you would 11 notice that the storefront glass aluminum has 12 been reinforced all the way across. We put in a 13 lock system, a cover plate. He's added the alarm 14 system. It goes directly to the police 15 department. 16 Unfortunately, they never seem 17 to get there to apprehend these people. And he's 18 also added, as I say, photographic equipment 19 inside the store to identify people. And I 20 understand the last time they broke in, that they 21 did get a photograph, but it wasn't sharp enough 22 to use. 23 I wish that there -- we, as the 24 owner, certainly don't think that this is
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1 something we'd like to see. We've been fighting 2 it for over a year. But we have to conclude that 3 the hardship being faced by this tenant and they 4 continue to break-in, which I expect to go on. 5 You know, it's pretty hard -- if someone wants to 6 get in, they're are going to get in. But we need 7 to some how provide the security, at least at the 8 front door. 9 That's where they're going 10 through. They walk out -- in a very few minutes, 11 they can walk out with two or three hundred 12 cartons of cigarettes; which they've have done 13 over and over and over. He's got an insurance 14 problem, which, you know, we have to consider to 15 some extent. I don't want to lose him as a 16 tenant. He's been a very good tenant, very 17 consistent, and keeps a nice shop. 18 So this is the last resort, as 19 far as we know. We don't have any other 20 alternatives. 21 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, sir. 22 Mr. Schultz? 23 MR. SCHULTZ: Just a brief 24 comment, I guess, following up on Mr. Saven's
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1 comments. 2 This is probably not a use that 3 the Board or the City wants to see proliferate. 4 So as you do your deliberations I thought I'd 5 throw out the kind of considerations that you're 6 looking at. And a little reminder of the 7 practical difficulty standard. So as you 8 evaluate what the proponent said, you have those 9 in your mind. 10 The practical difficulty 11 standard is applying substantial hardship or 12 substantial difficulty in complying with the 13 terms of the Ordinance. And the issue unique to 14 the property -- not the use, but to the 15 property -- a situation that's going to do 16 substantial justice to both the property owner 17 and to those in the surrounding area; and then no 18 self-created hardship. 19 And I know that the Board is 20 generally aware of those, but I thought I would 21 kind of frame the discussion a little bit, and 22 you know, as Don said, I think it's an 23 interesting case, so I thought I'd started it 24 out.
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1 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 2 Mr. Schultz. Thank you for those comments. 3 MEMBER FISCHER: Board Members? 4 Member Brennan? 5 MEMBER BRENNAN: I guess I -- my 6 first comments is are we entirely certain that he 7 doesn't have the right to do this, given the 8 language that's listed here with respect to 9 Article 15, Section 1603. This is not a loading 10 dock. This is not a truck well. This is not an 11 overhead service door or other type of service 12 bay door. This is his front door. 13 Why is he even in front of us? 14 Doesn't he have the legal right to do this? Is 15 there any other Ordinance that says he can't? 16 MR. SAVEN: This matter was 17 brought before the Planning Department in regards 18 to the issue regarding the door, itself. The 19 overhead door will need to be determined as a 20 service door. This was concluded as an overhead 21 door. That falls under that particular purview. 22 MEMBER BRENNAN: Actually, it 23 doesn't face a thoroughfare; it's parallel to the 24 thoroughfare.
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1 You know what, I think this 2 is -- I don't know why there's any real thought 3 about why not to confirm this request. If 4 anything, there's been a huge confirmation of an 5 issue here, of a problem here. He's 6 represented -- he's got the burden of a problem. 7 The police department does, as well. I think 8 that he's very clearly demonstrated that he's 9 got a hardship. 10 And I mean the option of saying 11 well, you know, this isn't a business that we 12 want in the community, I don't think that that's 13 before us. 14 Unless someone has another 15 perspective -- my gist on this, I think it is the 16 correct thing to do. 17 MEMBER FISCHER: Any other 18 comments, sir? 19 Member Brennan? 20 MEMBER BRENNAN: No, I'm done. 21 Sorry. 22 MEMBER FISCHER: Member 23 Gronachan? 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Well, when I
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1 first looked at this case -- and I'm going to be 2 honest with my comment -- as a resident, my first 3 comment was, not in my backyard; doesn't look 4 right. But as a Board Member, I have to do 5 what's right for the Petitioner. 6 I agree that there is some 7 practical difficulty in that this is unique to 8 this property. However, somebody's going have to 9 help me with that this is not a self-created 10 hardship. And what I mean by that is, given the 11 type of business that it is -- the other stores 12 in this mall are not getting broken into? Do 13 they all have the same amount of breaking and 14 enterings as this particular store has? 15 MR. ALAWAN: To the best of my 16 knowledge -- the two years that I've been 17 managing, we have not had a break-in at any other 18 facility. 19 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 20 MR. ALAWAN: I'm sorry. I'll 21 take it back. We did have one incident at Jimmy 22 John's, where someone tried to pry the front door 23 plate and that had to be replaced. I do remember 24 that. I mean, it is a well-lit -- and quite
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1 frankly, as you all know, quite a beautiful 2 plaza. We try to keep it up. But the reason I'm 3 here -- 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: That answered 5 -- 6 MR. ALAWAN: Oh, excuse me. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You've 8 answered the question. 9 Thank you. 10 Which backs up my thought 11 process here, of substantiating that this isn't 12 self-created, given on the base of the type of 13 business that we're dealing with. 14 Is that, Mr. Schultz, something 15 that we need to look at? I mean, obviously if 16 this was a bobbin and needle store, we wouldn't 17 be looking at this type of crime as taking place 18 with that kind of business. 19 Am I going down somewhat of the 20 right road? 21 MR. SCHULTZ: Well, let me -- if 22 I may? 23 MEMBER FISCHER: Please. 24 MR. SCHULTZ: -- back up a
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1 little bit and address the first comment that 2 Member Brennan made. 3 Because I don't think you want 4 to focus just on the nature of the business and 5 who the user is. It's certainly a permitted use; 6 nothing wrong with this use whatsoever. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I agree. 8 MR. SCHULTZ: You know, the 9 owner of this store and the center is not the 10 issue. The Board has two ways to look at this. 11 The first is kind of what Member Brennan started 12 out with; which is, should this even be in front 13 of us, because it doesn't really sound like the 14 kind of thing that the Ordinance was intended to 15 address. 16 Those are rear large overhead 17 doors. And, you know, Mr. Saven's initial 18 interpretation -- with the assistance of Planning 19 Department -- that this is the kind of thing -- 20 this sort of rolling opaque metal that the 21 Ordinance discourages or actually precludes. 22 But you as a Board have the 23 ability to say we disagree. So that's option 24 number one. Option number two is to treat it as
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1 a variance question, which is -- started out as 2 your issue of practical difficulty. Self-created 3 hardship is the -- what happens when a Petitioner 4 causes the need for the variance through some 5 particular action that may or may not be legal. 6 And just the nature of business is probably not 7 the idea that the rule of tries to prevent. 8 (unintelligible) jewelry store, and even this 9 could just as easily be that kind of a high rent 10 business as is in front of you. And you're not 11 going to say we don't want jewelry stores in our 12 City. 13 So, I kind of was just outlining 14 the four or five issues. I don't think they've 15 done anything particularly out of the ordinary 16 just by being this kind of a shop. So -- and 17 that's just my opinion, obviously, as the Board 18 will decide that. 19 So, I think you're looking at 20 kind of the other issue, does -- well, is there 21 something about the area or the site that causes 22 this problem, is really what you focus on; rather 23 than who the person is or what the business is. 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Well -- and
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1 in no way did I want to give that presentation or 2 present that. So I'm glad that you cleared that 3 up and cleared it for record. 4 What I'm saying is that perhaps 5 a -- that the location is contributing to this. 6 That's basically -- and not so much of what type 7 of business it is. But given what it is and it's 8 location, that it has more of a higher propensity 9 for break-ins than -- that's where I was going 10 with the self-created. Given that if it was a 11 different location and a different type of 12 building, that this kind of variance would not be 13 needed. It took me a little longer to get there. 14 So that's where I'm going; that 15 maybe this particular location for this 16 building -- for this particular business isn't 17 working, that's how I'm looking at it. 18 Don't look at me like that. I'm 19 stuck after that. 20 MEMBER FISCHER: Any further 21 comments, Member Gronachan? 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: No. At this 23 point in time, no. 24 Thank you.
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1 MEMBER FISCHER: Member Krieger? 2 MEMBER KRIEGER: I have a 3 question. 4 If you have tried the avenue of 5 using a security with the yellow flashing light 6 to be in the parking lot to give the feeling of 7 security to any of the tenants anywhere or in 8 this particular -- 9 MR. ALAWAN: He has installed 10 flashing lights within the business. We're 11 reluctant to put a flashing light in the parking 12 lot. I haven't pursued it nor have I ever heard 13 it used. 14 MEMBER KRIEGER: No, I mean a 15 security vehicle with somebody in it 24/7 -- or 16 at night. Not during the day, but during the 17 evening hours? 18 MR. ALAWAN: For us or for him 19 to do that? 20 MEMBER KRIEGER: Either. 21 MR. ALAWAN: Is that what you 22 are suggesting that we or he put a security 23 vehicle with someone sitting in it? 24 MEMBER KRIEGER: No. I asked if
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1 that was -- 2 MR. ALAWAN: Let me just say 3 this. We hadn't considered it mainly because the 4 police car's been out there on several occasions 5 and they wait for them to take it away. In the 6 last break-in, it wasn't there. I don't think -- 7 given some of the comment I have heard in terms 8 of the plaza and the nature of it, that would be 9 conducive to the kind of image we're trying to 10 project; as to have a security car with a dummy 11 sitting in it 24 hours a day. So I haven't tried 12 it and I'm not sure it would work. 13 MEMBER KRIEGER: That was the 14 question, if that was one of the options. 15 Thank you. 16 MEMBER FISCHER: My question -- 17 I guess going back Building Department. 18 When it discusses a major 19 thoroughfare, how was that determined in this 20 case? 21 MR. SAVEN: Basically, as the 22 total packages face the main thoroughfare of 23 Grand River, you're going to see it as your going 24 down Grand River from the west, okay -- from east
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1 to west. Or -- however, it's still considered 2 fronting on a major thoroughfare. 3 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. That si 4 the standard that is normally used? 5 MR. SAVEN: Yes. 6 MEMBER FISCHER: So, okay. 7 I would be reluctant to go down 8 the interpretation of -- re-interpretation, 9 overruling the Building Department on this one. 10 I think they have made their case for why this is 11 this way. As far as going down the route of 12 granting a variance in this particular case, that 13 is the one that I would feel comfortable with. 14 The Petitioner has mentioned several things that 15 they have done in order to deter this type of 16 activity at their store. 17 And even this correspondence 18 from the police department, they have six 19 confirmed breaking and entering at this location. 20 Their have been smaller incidents where -- just 21 their only reason for not counting it as 22 confirmed is because they hadn't lost a lot of 23 product; so they've had more than six. 24 They've even had -- tried
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1 decoys. Our police department has helped in this 2 effort, along with the petitioners. So, I feel 3 that the burden has been met by the Petitioner; 4 and therefore, I would be willing to support a 5 Motion, if one was to be made. 6 Member Sanghvi, your comments? 7 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 8 I agree with your comments and 9 I'm going to make a Motion, that in Case Number, 10 05-074, we grant the request of the Petitioner 11 because of the hardship -- 12 MEMBER FISCHER: Member Sanghvi, 13 your microphone, please. 14 MEMBER SANGHVI: I agree with 15 your comments, Mr. Chairman, and I'd like to make 16 a Motion that in Case Number, 05-074, we grant 17 the request of the Petitioner because of 18 hardships already demonstrated in the discussion. 19 Thank you. 20 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second. 21 MEMBER FISCHER: There is a 22 Motion and a second. 23 Any further discussion? 24 MEMBER BRENNAN: Discussion.
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1 I am behind you, Mav. I would 2 limit it to this Petitioner. If the business 3 decides to move, that thing comes down. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: This business 5 only. 6 MEMBER SANGHVI: I have no 7 problem with it. 8 MEMBER FISCHER: And the 9 seconder? 10 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes, that's 11 fine. 12 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 13 Any further discussion on the 14 Motion? 15 Mr. Schultz? 16 MR. SCHULTZ: Just a comment. 17 I'm trying to think forward to 18 the next one who comes in which is less -- which 19 doesn't have the same history of break-ins; it 20 isn't right on Grand River. 21 Maybe just add to the findings; 22 that the location of building; close to Grand 23 River; in the area of two major thoroughfares 24 contributed to the need for this in this
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1 particular case. 2 MEMBER SANGHVI: I have no 3 problem. 4 MEMBER FISCHER: Motion maker 5 agrees? Seconder agrees. 6 We'll make that part of the 7 Motion. 8 Anything else? 9 Seeing none, Ms. Backus, will 10 you please call the roll. 11 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 12 MEMBER SANGHVI? Yes. 13 GAIL BACKUS: Member Krieger? 14 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 15 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 16 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 17 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 18 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 19 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 21 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes five 22 to zero. 23 MEMBER FISCHER: Your variance 24 has been granted with some conditions. Please
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1 see the Building Department and good luck. 2 I hope this type of activity 3 stops for you. 4 MR. ALAWAN: Thank you for your 5 time. Appreciate it. 6 7 MEMBER FISCHER: I would like to 8 call Case Number, 05-075, filed by Partha 9 Chakravartti of Eden Garden LLC. Sorry if I 10 messed up your name. 11 The Petitioner's requesting two 12 lot frontage variances, for Lots 6 and 7 for the 13 proposed development known as Evergreen Estates. 14 The area in question is located west of Garfield 15 Road and north of Nine Mile road. 16 Please raise your hand and be 17 sworn in by our secretary. 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you swear 19 or affirm that the information -- I'm sorry. 20 Do you swear or affirm that the 21 information that you're about to give in the 22 matter before you is the truth? 23 MR. CHAKRAVARTTI: I do. 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You may
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1 proceed. 2 MEMBER FISCHER: Please state 3 your name and your address. 4 MR. CHAKRAVARTTI: My name is 5 Partha Chakravartti; and I live at 2477 Naples 6 Drive, Novi, Michigan 48374. 7 First of all, I'd like to take 8 the opportunity to thank the Board -- Mr. Chair 9 and rest of Board; and special thanks to Ms. Gail 10 Backus, who was very helpful communicating with 11 us. 12 We are few friends who 13 started -- decided to build together, a few 14 homes. And the engineers from the Planning 15 Department of Novi City was very helpful getting 16 us to the point where we are right now. There 17 are two lots that couple of our friends are 18 (unintelligible) or build there, do not have 19 frontage on a cul-de-sac. 20 The picture I'm trying to show 21 is not very clear. Basically, we're trying to 22 look at two lots -- and the material should be in 23 the packets. 24 MEMBER FISCHER: We do have the
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1 material. 2 MR. CHAKRAVARTTI: Fantastic. 3 We had considered -- as advised 4 by the Planning Department -- the alternative of 5 either taking the main road inside, crossing the 6 wetland -- the strip of wetland inside the 7 dryline; and having the cul-de-sac on the other 8 side of the wetland; or having the wetland the 9 way it is -- I'm sorry. The cul-de-sac is having 10 the common shared driveway going into the lots 11 inside. 12 We wanted to minimize the impact 13 on the environment; the wetland woodland area. 14 We are going to live there. We are very cautious 15 not to disturb any nature out there. And in the 16 process, we did -- went ahead and obtained the 17 DEQ permit, which I'm displaying right now; to 18 change it from the width of the common driveway 19 from 12 feet to 18 feet. 20 That's where we stand, and 21 that's the case. 22 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, sir. 23 In this case, 13 notices were 24 mailed. There where is zero approvals and zero
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1 objections; two letters were returned. 2 Is there anyone in the audience 3 that wishes to comment on this case? 4 Seeing none, I'll ask if the 5 Building department has any comments? 6 MR. SAVEN: Just where are we 7 with your wetlands land permit? Do you have a 8 wetlands permit? 9 MR. CHAKRAVARTTI: We just 10 received from MDEQ, yes. 11 MR. SAVEN: Do you have a City 12 wetlands permit? 13 MR. CHAKRAVARTTI: Yes. 14 MR. SAVEN: All right. 15 I'm all set. 16 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 17 Mr. Saven. 18 Board Members? 19 Member Brennan? 20 MEMBER BRENNAN: Boy, they all 21 seem like no brainers tonight for some reason. 22 Certainly, extending the 23 cul-de-sac over on the other side of the pond 24 doesn't make sense. It just adds to the burden
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1 of the construction; and this is a smart way of 2 doing this. 3 My only question was, is this 4 going to be a bridge or are you actually building 5 a road through the wetland? How are you -- how 6 is that going to happen, that little stub, it 7 looks like? 8 MR. CHAKRAVARTTI: I can give 9 you my recollection of the drawing. It would be 10 a hollow tube protecting the wetland, the water 11 going through it. It will be a common shared 12 driveway going on top of that. We do have that 13 engineering drawing submitted to the Planning 14 Committee. I don't think the copy 15 (unintelligible.) 16 MEMBER BRENNAN: What's before 17 us tonight is very simple. You don't have 18 frontage to a major road. You're trying to build 19 on the other side of the swamp. This is a clever 20 way of doing it, and it makes sense. 21 You've got my support. 22 MEMBER FISCHER: All set, 23 Mr. Brennan? 24 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes, I'm sorry,
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1 yes. 2 MEMBER FISCHER: Any other 3 comments by Board Members? 4 MEMBER SANGHVI: No. 5 MEMBER FISCHER: I would tend to 6 agree with the previous speaker. You can pull 7 that -- I'm fine. I'll look at this one. I 8 believe it's common sense, as well. And looks 9 like you're making an effort, as you just 10 described, to insure that the nature there is 11 adversity effected to the least possibility; and 12 so I appreciate that. 13 And I think this concept as a 14 whole does that, as well, trying to not disturb 15 the area, the wetland area there. 16 So, I believe that Member 17 Brennan is correct, as usual; and will ask for 18 any other comments? 19 Member Gronachan? 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: We're going 21 to be neighbors. I'm not far from here, so I'm 22 familiar with the area. 23 And my comments are I can -- I 24 understand fully why you're doing this, and I
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1 support it in this particular case only; and I 2 stress that. And I'm sure that there are people 3 out on Garfield and Nine Mile that are watching 4 this because they have frontage, and they are 5 dying to split their property; and that's not 6 what's happening here. 7 This is someone who's coming in 8 and developing a piece of property who is 9 protecting a large amount of wetlands, am I not 10 correct? 11 MR. CHAKRAVARTTI: Right. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Can you tell 13 me -- I saw you with the Council, and I don't 14 recall size of this. Do you know off hand the 15 amount of wetland that you are actually 16 protecting, the percentage? 17 MR. CHAKRAVARTTI: No, I don't 18 know offhand. 19 MEMBER GRONACHAN: But that is 20 your sole purpose of doing this this way, 21 correct? 22 MR. CHAKRAVARTTI: That's 23 correct. 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: That is, to
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1 protect this wetland, not to get the maximum 2 build out of a piece of property. 3 MR. CHAKRAVARTTI: That's very 4 correct. 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: And not to 6 add or increase density in any way, shape, or 7 form. 8 MR. CHAKRAVARTTI: Yes. 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: And, again, 10 the reason I say this, is because I'm very 11 familiar with this area; and there are residents 12 out in that neighborhood who are dying to split 13 and increase density for financial reasons. And 14 I don't believe, in this case, at this time, 15 that that's what this is about. This is clearly 16 to protect the wetlands. 17 And I will be in full favor, and 18 I appreciate you letting me put those comments on 19 record. 20 MR. CHAKRAVARTTI: Thank you 21 very much. 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you, 23 Mr. Chair. 24 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you,
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1 Member Gronachan. 2 Any other comments? 3 Seeing none, open the floor back 4 to Member Brennan. 5 MEMBER BRENNAN: With respect to 6 case 05-075, I'd move for approval as submitted 7 due to the lot configuration. 8 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Support. 10 MEMBER FISCHER: There is a 11 Motion and a second. 12 Is there any further discussion? 13 Seeing none, Ms. Backus, will 14 you please call the roll. 15 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 16 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 17 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 19 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 20 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 21 GAIL BACKUS: Member Krieger? 22 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 23 GAIL BACKUS: And Member 24 Sanghvi?
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1 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 2 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes five 3 to zero. 4 MEMBER FISCHER: Your variance 5 has been granted. Good luck. 6 MR. CHAKRAVARTTI: Thank you 7 very much. 8 MEMBER FISCHER: We'll go ahead 9 and take one more case before we take a little 10 recess. 11 12 So I'd like to call, Case 13 05-076, filed by Bright Star, Incorporated, for 14 Gus O'Connor's. The Petitioner's requesting a 15 sign variance, one sign variance for a wall sign 16 to be installed at Gus O'Connor's Irish Pub, at 17 42875 Grand River, in the Main Street area. 18 Your name, sir? 19 MR. SAYED: Hello. My name is 20 Mos Sayed. I'm with Bright Star Signs at 13500 21 Fort Street in Detroit. 22 MEMBER FISCHER: If you could 23 please raise your hand and be sworn in by our 24 secretary.
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1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you swear 2 or affirm that the information that you're about 3 to give in the matter before you is the truth? 4 MR. SAYED: Yes, I do. 5 MEMBER FISCHER: Please proceed. 6 MR. SAYED: We're requesting a 7 neon channel letter sign to be mounted in the 8 front of -- facing front of Gus O'Connor's Irish 9 Pub, facing Grand River. And the reason my 10 client wanted to go ahead with a new sign, is 11 because he is having -- he's clients -- he's 12 having people having a hard time finding his 13 place; and he feels that if he has a sign up 14 there, it's going to help identify his business, 15 his establishment. 16 At one point, the previous 17 tenants -- it was a restaurant called Petooch, 18 they had a channel letter sign very similar to 19 what we're requesting at this moment. There's a 20 smaller sign above the door; that will be taken 21 done; and it'll be a channel sign, instead of the 22 frontage. 23 Any question, any comments? 24 MEMBER FISCHER: And when we get
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1 to board discussion, if we have any we'll let you 2 know. 3 Is there anyone in the audience 4 that wishes to comment on this case? 5 Seeing none, I will let the 6 Board know there were seven notices mailed; zero 7 approvals and zero objections. 8 Building Department, any 9 comments? 10 MR. AMOLSCH: No comment, sir. 11 MEMBER FISCHER: I'm going to go 12 ahead and start this off by saying that I drove 13 by there earlier this week, and I didn't see a 14 mockup sign. 15 I'd ask any other Board Member 16 if they had seen a mockup when they've driven by? 17 My suggestion would be to table 18 this case, in order to see a mockup, unless the 19 Petitioner would like to comment on -- 20 MR. SAYED: We have a mockup 21 sign, three feet by four feet sign in the window 22 and to the left -- where the main entrance is, 23 just to the left of it. It's a three foot by 24 four foot. It's a picture blown with the sign on
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1 the building. 2 It's fairly a large sign you 3 have, but I have a copy that I can pass around, 4 if you like to. 5 MEMBER FISCHER: We have a full 6 packet. We have some specifications. I'd like 7 to see the sign up there, but I will ask Board 8 Members for their consideration. 9 Member Gronachan? 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Before we go 11 any further. 12 Mr. Saven, do you recall or 13 maybe Member Brennan that this was not before us 14 at the time that they were building? That they 15 requested this sign in -- the front one, and 16 there was something that we denied, is there -- 17 MR. AMOLSCH: There was a 18 variance for the additional wall sign on the Main 19 Street side previously. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Was there a 21 denial on one of the other signs? 22 MR. AMOLSCH: They have a 23 permitted sign in the front door; and they 24 requested and got a variance from the Board on
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1 May 4th of 2004 for the additional sign on the 2 west elevation, and a projection sign, also. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 4 But I can concur with Chairman 5 Fischer. I could not see the mockup. And I 6 think that the we have done this in the past, 7 where we've requested the actual mockup be put on 8 the building. 9 And therefore, I think this case 10 should be tabled until that's done, because I did 11 not see it in the window, as well. 12 MR. SAYED: If I may comment? 13 MEMBER FISCHER: If there are 14 any questions or if there's any issues, I let you 15 speak. But at this time, the Board does have the 16 floor. 17 So Member Brennan, you had your 18 hand up. 19 MEMBER BRENNAN: My second home. 20 The issue, and unfortunately, 21 the Petitioner didn't get it real cross. The 22 issue is the existing sign was right above the 23 door. You can't see it from Grand River. 24 There's a line of trees along Grand River that
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1 serves as a barrier; and that situation is going 2 to get worse. 3 Every other tenant on that 4 street now has their sign up in the pitch of the 5 roof. The sign as submitted in the sketch is 6 near identical to the golf store next door. This 7 business, along with other businesses in Main 8 Street, are struggling. And there is 9 considerable hardship given Grand River being 10 closed for a long time. Beck Road being closed 11 for a long time. Construction on Novi Road for a 12 long time. 13 This Petitioner, in particular, 14 has had a lot thrown at him soon after opening 15 his business. Personally, I think that it 16 matches the rest of the signage on that building. 17 I know and I've always supported the fact we ask 18 for mockups. The sign manufacturer didn't 19 understand what we needed. He had a mockup in 20 the window, which was a rendering -- a small 21 rendering. 22 If it's the general mood of the 23 Board to delay this, I guess I have no problem. 24 On the other hand, it matches what's there. It
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1 There is a hardship. And it wasn't presented, 2 but I'm aware of the hardship. I personally know 3 the owners. I'm not petitioning for them, I just 4 know the situation. 5 So I that's my comment. 6 MEMBER FISCHER: And I agree. I 7 do see the element of practical difficulty. 8 Let me ask Mr. Amolsch. 9 Other than the fact that it's 10 the second sign, if the other sign that is on 11 Main Street was not there, would this sign be in 12 size configuration to the building? 13 MR. AMOLSCH: Yes, it is. 14 MEMBER FISCHER: They would not 15 need a variance for the sign? 16 MR. AMOLSCH: There's a maximum 17 65 feet on any wall sign, based on linear 18 frontage. 19 MEMBER FISCHER: And they meet 20 that by about -- 21 MR. AMOLSCH: And Member 22 Gronachan, you were correct. I just looked at my 23 (unintelligible) there was (unintelligible) that 24 was not approved.
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1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: So there was a 2 denial at some point. I thought so. 3 MEMBER FISCHER: I appreciate 4 the comments by Member Brennan. They kind of 5 pened my eyes, and I realize that. 6 Given that this isn't a size 7 requirement, I like to be very harsh when it 8 comes to mockup signs, and what we expect from 9 them. But the reason and the only reason that 10 they're here is because of the minor sign that's 11 on their -- the Main Street side; which would be 12 the west side of the building. 13 So, I would be in support of 14 this tonight; and that's not to ever give an 15 excuse to anyone else about a mockup sign, but I 16 would be willing to support this, as well. 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Sorry, guys. 18 I'm going to be the hardball here. I will not -- 19 I apologize. I understand about the size. I 20 understand the difficulty in this business; but, 21 with as many problems as we have at this table 22 with the sign companies not getting it right 23 about mockup signs, I'm not going to bend them. 24 We've had way too many
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1 Petitioners come in front of this Board not doing 2 rules. And a mockup sign is a mockup sign. It's 3 just that simple. And we have made ever other 4 business in this facility do the mockups, and I 5 am not going to change the rules now. 6 I'm sorry. I will not be 7 supporting this. I would like to see a mockup. 8 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 9 Member Gronachan. 10 Member Sanghvi? 11 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, 12 Mr. Chairman. 13 The previous speaker's point is 14 well taken. In spite of that, I'm going to try 15 and make a Motion. That in Case Number 05-076, 16 we grant the request for the wall sign as 17 suggested for business identification on Grand 18 River. 19 Thank you. 20 MEMBER BRENNAN: Second. 21 MEMBER FISCHER: There is a 22 Motion and a second. 23 Any further discussion? 24 Mr. Amolsch?
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1 MR. AMOLSCH: Subject to removal 2 of the Grand River side sign? 3 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 4 MEMBER FISCHER: The one right 5 above the door? 6 MEMBER BRENNAN: The Petitioner 7 (unintelligible). 8 MEMBER FISCHER: It was directed 9 by the Petitioner. 10 And do you feel comfortable with 11 that, Member Brennan? 12 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 13 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 14 Ms. Backus, will you please call 15 the roll. 16 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 17 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 18 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 19 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 20 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 21 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 22 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: No. 24 GAIL BACKUS: Member Krieger?
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1 MEMBER KRIEGER: No. 2 GAIL BACKUS: Motion fails, 3 three to two. 4 MEMBER FISCHER: At this time, 5 we do not have a consensus on the Board. 6 However, there is the possibility to table the 7 case and getting a mockup, I believe. 8 Would we need a reconsideration 9 of the Motion? 10 MR. SCHULTZ: A Motion to table 11 would accommodate that. 12 MR. SAYED: May I comment, 13 Mr. Fischer. 14 MEMBER FISCHER: Not at this 15 time, unless there's any questions by a Board 16 Member or any Motions? 17 Yes, Member Brennan? 18 MEMBER BRENNAN: I think for the 19 two or three seconds that it will take, let's 20 hear what he's got to say. 21 MR. SAYED: I called the 22 Building Department and ask about the mockup, did 23 we need to make big banner and have it installed 24 way up top. And from my understanding, when I
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1 spoke to Ms. Backus, from my understanding -- I 2 explained what we were going to do. And I got 3 some kind of a okay on it, before I even went 4 ahead and did what we did. 5 If I would have known that would 6 not be acceptable, I would not have done that. 7 But I was confirm that it would be okay, and -- 8 to do what we have done with the mockup. 9 Otherwise, I would not have done it. I would not 10 disrespect the Board by any mean. 11 MEMBER FISCHER: And we 12 understand that. And there's times -- I believe 13 that Ms. Backus -- I'm sure handled the case 14 fine; and there's other ways of communication. I 15 know on the websit and other packages we give out 16 when looking for variances, that the 17 specifications are pretty clear on what we ask 18 for as a Board. 19 So, I believe that we are fine 20 in that arena. 21 Any other Board Members? 22 Make a Motion. 23 MEMBER BRENNAN: Given the 24 position of the Baord, I'll make a Motion that we
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1 table this for the next meeting. 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Aye. 3 MEMBER FISCHER: Is that a 4 second? 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Support, 6 sorry. 7 MEMBER FISCHER: There is a 8 Motion and a second to table this case to -- for 9 next month. 10 Any other discussion? 11 MEMBER SANGHVI: Just add the 12 direction to the applicant to put the mockup sign 13 up. 14 MEMBER FISCHER: Correct. 15 They should be able to get in by 16 Thursday. The current package should be fine and 17 sufficient to the Board Members. 18 So all we're missing is the 19 mockup. 20 We'll see you in October. 21 Ms. Backus, please call eh roll. 22 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 23 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 24 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan:
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1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 2 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 3 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 4 GAIL BACKUS: Member Krieger? 5 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 6 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 7 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 8 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes five 9 to zero. 10 MEMBER FISCHER: It will be 11 tabled, which direction that this will be the 12 first case on the agenda for October. And please 13 go ahead and put the full size mockup up, so we 14 can see what it will look like. 15 We appreciate your time. Hope 16 we can work with you next month. 17 MR. SAYED: Appreciate it. 18 Thank you. 19 20 MEMBER FISCHER: At this time, 21 the Zoning Board will take a seven minute recess 22 take us to 9:00. 23 (A brief recess was taken.) 24
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1 2 MEMBER FISCHER: The Zoning 3 Board of Appeals is back in session. 4 5 And we're going to call Case 6 Number 05-077 -- I'm sorry. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: That's right. 8 MEMBER FISCHER: 05-077, filed 9 by Tamatha Stubbe for Singh Homes, at 41566 10 Steinbeck Glen. The Petitioner is requesting a 11 temporary use permit for the continued placement 12 of a construction trailer located on said 13 address. The applicant would like to continue the 14 construction trailer on the area until the entire 15 site is completed. 16 And you are? 17 MR. DAWSON: Mark Dawson with 18 Singh Homes. 19 MEMBER FISCHER: Would you 20 please raise your hand and be sorn in by our 21 secretary. 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you swear 23 or affirm that the information that you're about 24 to give in the matter before you is the truth?
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1 MR. DAWSON: Yes, ma'am, I do. 2 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 3 Your name and address and 4 proceed, please. 5 MR. DAWSON: My name is Mark 6 Dawson, and I live at 1387 North Creek Road in 7 Wixom. 8 And I'm sure you're 9 (unintelligible) permit for a construction 10 trailer. 11 MEMBER FISCHER: All right. 12 Thank you, sir. 13 Is there anyone in the audience 14 that wishes to comment on this case? 15 Seeing none, in this case there 16 were 15 notices mailed. There were zero 17 approvals and one objection. The objection by 18 James Cane of 41620 Kinnon Circle. There's 19 increased construction traffic in the trailer 20 area due to the location of the cross roads, as 21 well as esthetic related. 22 Building Department? 23 MR. SAVEN: I think it's another 24 one that's a very tough issue, because of the
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1 location of this corner lot. It's referencing 2 the rest of the build-out off site. You had an 3 opportunity to go out to the site and take a look 4 at the remaining lots that need to be completed. 5 Certainly, I would not like to 6 have trucks looking for a construction trailer on 7 the site, going through the entire area. I'd 8 like to have it readily visible, so they know 9 where to go to get directions. And I don't 10 believe that this is going to be a problem. Of 11 course, it's the Board's decision, but I do have 12 a concern because there will be construction 13 traffic in the area. I would rather have them 14 know directions right upfront. 15 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 16 Mr. Saven. 17 Board Members? 18 Member Brennan? 19 MEMBER BRENNAN: Just one 20 question of the Building Department. 21 As we have in the pass when a 22 permit has been issued for had a construction 23 trailer for a period of time. In some cases 24 there are a lot of problems with storage and
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1 debris. 2 Are there any problems with this 3 particular Petitioner? 4 MR. SAVEN: We had one issue and 5 they did remove that trailer, correct? 6 MR. DAWSON: It's gone, as of a 7 few days ago. 8 MEMBER BRENNAN: That answer and 9 the fact that the Building Department would 10 prefer to have it here to solve other problems, 11 I'd support the Petitioner's request. 12 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 13 Member Brennan. 14 Other Board Members? 15 Member Gronachan? 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I would just 17 like to address the resident's concern, given 18 that they did not indicate that this is in a poor 19 condition. And as previously stated by our 20 Building Department, there is only one violation 21 of a trailer, and not with cleanliness; and that 22 it continues to do so. 23 I can be in support of this 24 request, as well.
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1 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 2 Member Gronachan. 3 Mr. Saven? 4 MR. SAVEN: If this is so much a 5 concern for maybe down the road, maybe put it 6 under continuing jurisdiction, if that's a Motion 7 that comes to be. 8 MEMBER FISCHER: I support the 9 two previous speakers before Mr. Saven, because 10 the term continuing jurisdiction is one of my 11 least favorite phrases that I've heard out of 12 this Board. We don't have very much to say when 13 it comes to that, as far as the Courts have 14 ruled, if I'm correct, Mr. Schultz, and so I hate 15 to do that. I'd rather see smaller time limits 16 given in these cases. 17 So that would be my only 18 suggestion. 19 And if a Motion were made in 20 support, please take this into consideration. 21 Member Gronachan? 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I do have a 23 question. 24 How much more time are you
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1 looking for? 2 MR. DAWSON: Two to three years, 3 depending on other land and what's available 4 there and development. 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I think I 6 would only support a year, and then have them 7 come back. Given the economy, and things could 8 turn around they could complete -- they could 9 complete this, optimistically, (unintelligible.) 10 MEMBER FISCHER: Member Sanghvi? 11 MEMBER SANGHVI: I would make a 12 Motion that in Case Number, 05-077, we request -- 13 we grant the request of the applicant for the 14 temporary use of a construction trailer for a 15 period of one year, subject to further approval, 16 or to -- if there are problems from the 17 department, Building Department. 18 MEMBER FISCHER: There's a 19 Motion on the table. 20 Does anyone support? 21 MEMBER BRENNAN: Support. 22 MEMBER FISCHER: There's a 23 Motion and a second. 24 Any further discussion?
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1 Seeing none, Ms. Backus, will 2 you please call the roll. 3 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 4 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 5 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 6 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 7 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 8 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 9 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 11 GAIL BACKUS: And Member 12 Krieger? 13 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 14 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes five 15 to zero. 16 MEMBER FISCHER: You have been 17 granted for one year at this time. 18 Good luck. 19 MR. DAWSON: Thanks. 20 21 MEMBER FISCHER: I'd like to 22 call Case Number, 05-078, filed by Cheryl and Bob 23 Murphy for 22798 Shadow Pine Way, located north 24 of Nine Mile Road, east of Meadowbrook. The
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1 applicant is requesting a four foot front yard 2 setback variance for the construction of a roof 3 over the existing porch at said address. 4 And you are Ms. Murphy? 5 MS. MURPHY: Good evening. 6 MEMBER FISCHER: Good evening. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Would you 8 raise your right hand. 9 Do you swear or affirm that the 10 information that you're about to give in the 11 matter before you is the truth? 12 MS. MURPHY: I do. 13 I have no further information, 14 besides the packets that were provided to the 15 Zoning Board. 16 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. Thank 17 you very much. Keep it nice and simple. I don't 18 mine that at all. 19 In this case, 35 notices were 20 mailed; 13 approvals and zero objections. 21 If the Board desired, I could 22 read them. But at this time, I'll wait for a 23 request from the Board Members. 24 And is there anyone in the
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1 audience that wishes to comment on this case? 2 Seeing none, Building 3 Department? 4 MR. SAVEN: It's over an 5 existing porch. That's it. 6 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 7 Mr. Saven. 8 Board Members? 9 Member Brennan starting it off, 10 as usual. 11 MEMBER BRENNAN: Well, it's 12 pretty clear cut. It's consistent with decisions 13 we've made in the past. We have homeowners' 14 approval. I'm looking over my shoulder here; 15 homeowners' association approval. 16 MEMBER FISCHER: Yes, Ms. Backus 17 did receive a phone call. 18 MEMBER BRENNAN: We have no 19 objections. We consistently approve this type of 20 request, when there aren't any issues. 21 I would support. 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Is that a 23 Motion? 24 MEMBER BRENNAN: I would be glad
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1 to make it. 05-078, I would move for approval of 2 the Petitioner's request, for purposes of safety 3 and security. 4 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second. 5 MEMBER FISCHER: If the maker of 6 the Motion and the seconder don't mind -- I know 7 we've said this before -- but if we could make it 8 part of the Motion in this case it also is the 9 existing foundation of the porch, I would be able 10 to support it? 11 MEMBER BRENNAN: So accepted. 12 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 13 MEMBER FISCHER: All right. 14 Any further discussion? 15 Seeing none, Ms. Backus, will 16 you please call the roll. 17 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 18 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 19 GAIL BACKUS: Member Krieger? 20 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 21 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 22 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 23 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes.
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1 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 3 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes five 4 to zero. 5 MEMBER FISCHER: Your variance 6 has been granted. Good luck, and please see the 7 Building department. 8 9 Case Number, 05-079, filed by 10 Jim Brown for 1661 Harbor Cove. The Petitioner 11 is requesting to construct a nine foot by 16 foot 12 deck with stairway in the side yard of an 13 existing condominium. And that is the only 14 variance. 15 MR. DANKO: Good evening. 16 MEMBER FISCHER: You need to be 17 sworn in by our secretary. 18 MR. DANKO: I'm actually not 19 Mr. Brown. 20 MEMBER FISCHER: Are you 21 appearing on behalf of Mr. Brown? 22 MR. DANKO: My name is Rod Danko, 23 and I'm here from the planning team on 24 Mr. Brown's behalf.
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1 MR. SCHULTZ: Good. 2 MEMBER FISCHER: Secretary, 3 would you please swear (unintelligible.) 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Could you 5 raise your right hand. 6 Do you swear or affirm that the 7 information that you're about to give in the 8 matter before you is the truth? 9 MR. DANKO: I do. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 11 MEMBER FISCHER: State your name 12 and address for the record, please. 13 MR. DANKO: My name is Rod 14 Danko, Da-n-k-o. I reside at 4444 Pierre Drive, 15 Pinkney, Michigan. My ZIP is 48169. 16 I'm here tonight on behalf of 17 Mr. Brown. And what he is seeking to do is 18 construct a nine feet by 16 foot elevated deck on 19 the side of his condo unit. We arrived at this 20 size, nine by 16, looking to have this be a 21 minimum, you know, a minimal amount of variance 22 in mind. It's reasonably small to have in this 23 area. It leaves quite a bit of area between the 24 two structures. I believe it's 31 feet, at least
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1 between them. 2 There are other side yard decks 3 in the area. Within the condo documents, it 4 seems there was convertible space set aside in 5 many of the units within this condo. The unit 6 that Mr. Brown lives in, however, did not have a 7 convertible space. So, that was part of the 8 reason we are here looking for a variance. 9 The nature of the deck -- they 10 use the upstairs bedroom quite a bit. They'd 11 also like -- from a safety standpoint -- to have 12 another means of ingress and egress for the 13 house. So, along with the deck, there'll be a 14 door wall installed where the existing window 15 upstairs is now. 16 And with that, I'll be happy to 17 answer any other questions, if I can. 18 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you very 19 much, sir. 20 At this time, I'll ask if 21 there's anyone in the audience that wishes to 22 make comment on this case? 23 Seeing none, in this case we had 24 83 notices mailed. There are zero approvals from
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1 the notices, and two objections. 2 Madam Secretary, can you please 3 read the correspondence. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 5 Mr. Chairman, however, the 6 objection is from the same person, Earl Elliott. 7 He owns two condos. One at 1687 Harbor Cove; and 8 1695 Harbor Cove. Evidently, Mr. Elliot is under 9 the impression that this is common area, and that 10 Mr. Brown is not able to build on this. He 11 indicates that if he wants to build on his 12 property, then the Petitioner should purchase 13 property from the condo association. 14 However, we do have a letter 15 Harbor Cove homeowners' association board, who 16 has approved the addition of a deck to the condo 17 of Jim Brown at the indicated address. 18 The drawings were provided to 19 the board, and as long as the builder follows 20 those specifications, the board's in full 21 support. 22 Thank you Mr. Chair. 23 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 24 Madam Secretary.
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1 Does the Building Department 2 wish to comment on this case? 3 MR. SAVEN: No comment, sir. 4 MEMBER FISCHER: No comments. 5 And I'll open up the floor for 6 Board discussion. 7 Member Krieger? 8 MEMBER KRIEGER: Thank you. 9 In regards to -- it was very 10 nice to see that he went through and looked up 11 the Ordinance and answered each question; and had 12 the homeowners' association approval. 13 So, I would be in support of 14 this, if a Motion is made. 15 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 16 Member Krieger. 17 My question would lie with 18 the -- possibly the City attorney or Building 19 Department. 20 As far as the land does go, this 21 his to build on; is that correct? I don't want 22 to drag us into any dispute as to the land 23 ownership; if that make senses. So if I could 24 get any clarification.
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1 MR. SCHULTZ: If I may, before 2 Mr. Saven has any additional comments. 3 From our prospective, that's 4 exactly what the objection does. It kind of gets 5 us involved in who owns which area. If you look 6 at the drawing, (unintelligible) it does somewhat 7 appear to be common area; where in the normal 8 condominium maybe the protrusion wouldn't be 9 permitted. 10 But here you have an approval 11 from the board that under the condominium 12 (unintelligible) of ownership allows improvement 13 or not within a common area. I would say without 14 that approval letter, you probably would be 15 justified in saying I need for information. With 16 that approval letter, I think you're permitted to 17 go forward and consider it, until he has 18 permission to do so; and leave it to the internal 19 operating procedures of that condo association to 20 deal with. 21 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you. 22 And my other comment regarding 23 the common area, as well, is that, in the packet 24 you mention there's 40 feet in between the two --
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1 MR. DANKO: Yes. 2 MEMBER FISCHER: -- condos. And 3 this is sticking out nine feet. If it is common 4 area, I walked through there and I feel that 5 there's still sufficient room to maneuver and 6 enjoy whatever is behind there, if this is common 7 area. 8 So, however, that's not my 9 decision whether it is or not. But I would be 10 able to support this. 11 Any other Board Members? 12 Member Sanghvi? 13 MEMBER SANGHVI: I'd make a 14 Motion in Case Number 05-079, we grant the 15 request of the Petitioner, provided they have 16 legal authority to build this deck. 17 Thank you. 18 MEMBER FISCHER: There is a 19 Motion. 20 Anyone -- 21 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second. 22 MEMBER FISCHER: There's a 23 Motion and a second. 24 Any further discussion?
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1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: No. 2 MEMBER FISCHER: Seeing none, 3 Ms. Backus, will you please call the roll. 4 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 5 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 6 GAIL BACKUS: Member Krieger? 7 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 8 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 9 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 10 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 11 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 12 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 14 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes five 15 to zero. 16 MEMBER FISCHER: Your variance 17 has been granted. Good luck. 18 We'll be out there to enjoy the 19 deck as soon as it's built. 20 MR. DANKO: Thank you. 21 22 MEMBER FISCHER: At this time I 23 would like to call Case Number, 05-080, filed by 24 Claudio Rossi of Mirage Development, located at
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1 25805 Beck Road. The Petitioner is requesting a 2 sign variance to erect a grown sign to be located 3 at 25805 Beck Road, which is on the southwest 4 corner of Beck and 11 Mile. 5 And your name, sir? 6 MR. ROSSI: My name's Claudio 7 Rossi. 8 MEMBER FISCHER: Please be sworn 9 by our secretary. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Would you 11 raise your right hand, please. 12 Do you swear or affirm that the 13 information that you're about to give in the 14 matter before you is the truth? 15 MR. ROSSI: I do. 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 17 MEMBER FISCHER: Please proceed. 18 MR. ROSSI: Good evening. My 19 name is Claudio Rossi. I'm with Mirage 20 Development, and we're here tonight to ask that 21 the Board consider our request; and on behalf of 22 the builders in Asbury Park, the placement of the 23 sign at the southwest corner of 11 Mile and Beck. 24 About a month ago, Rich Cligman
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1 of Superb Homes was here requesting such as sign 2 be permitted. The request was for an eight by 3 four sign, ten foot tall. Based on comments made 4 by Members of this Board that night, in respect 5 to size, height and print, Mirage as the 6 developer has submitted a revised sign 7 application with a photo; which should be 8 included in your packets. 9 On this photo, you will see our 10 new proposed sign, along with two other signs 11 that have been permitted at major intersections 12 within Novi. The size of our proposed sign is 13 four by four, with an area of 16 square feet to 14 be place seven feet high from grade. This is 15 substantially less in area, height and print from 16 these other permitted signs, as well as our first 17 proposal submitted to the Board. 18 I believe that the color and 19 appearance of the sign has a soft cast, and 20 should blend in and not detract from the visual 21 appearance of this area. As pointed out by Rich 22 Cligman at the last meeting, the main purpose for 23 the sign is to alert the general public's 24 awareness to the Asbury community due to the
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1 secluded location at 11 Mile. 2 We appreciate the Board's 3 reconsideration of the request; and I'll try to 4 answer any questions that you may have. 5 Thank you. 6 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, sir. 7 Is there anyone in the audience 8 that wishes to comment on this case? 9 Seeing none, in this case, there 10 are 17 notices mailed; zero approvals and zero 11 objections. 12 Building Department, any 13 comments? 14 MR. AMOLSCH: I'd like to ask 15 Mr. Rossi, the mockup that you have out there, 16 that's not where the sign is going to be located, 17 is it? 18 MR. ROSSI: That's actually 19 close to where the sign is going to be located. 20 We made sure to measure the distance from the 21 center of the road to the property line. I 22 believe the right of way dimension is 33 feet. 23 MR. AMOLSCH: That's what I was 24 going to ask.
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1 MR. ROSSI: That row is actually 2 -- excuse me. The sign is piped at about 34 and 3 a half or 35 feet from the center of the road. 4 MR. AMOLSCH: Okay. 5 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you. 6 Any further comments? 7 Board Members? 8 I'll go ahead open this 9 discussion if, Mr. Brennan doesn't want to take 10 part. 11 MEMBER BRENNAN: I wasn't here 12 last month, so I didn't hear (unintelligible) 13 discussion last month. Sounds like he's -- 14 MEMBER FISCHER: In these cases 15 and with every case we see, we look at them 16 individually. So although we do appreciate the 17 comparison -- I appreciate the comparison, it's 18 not really something that we look. Because each 19 of those other cases, as you may have seen, 20 provided different facts. 21 But with that said, I believe 22 that this case has addressed many, if not all of 23 the concerns that the Board had last month. We 24 discussed an advertising sign, because it had the
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1 developers listed, because it had phone numbers 2 listed, as one of our concerns, and that has been 3 taken care of. 4 We addressed the size of the 5 sign; that was a concern of several Board Members 6 and that has been addressed. 7 My only question to you, the 8 letter from Paul Bosco, that would still be -- 9 MR. ROSSI: That's correct. 10 MEMBER FISCHER: So that's still 11 legitimate letter. 12 MR. ROSSI: Yes. 13 MEMBER FISCHER: I feel that you 14 did a very good job of taking the concerns of the 15 Board Members into consideration. In fact, I had 16 supported the sign last month. And so I -- given 17 that you've met all of their concerns in my eyes, 18 I, once again, will support this sign. 19 Other Board Members for 20 comments? 21 Member Gronachan? 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I'm going to 23 get the negative person award tonight. My view 24 from the last month hasn't changed. I can
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1 appreciate Mr. Rossi's attempt to re-present this 2 to us. However -- and I was trying to find the 3 Minutes here -- my -- Member Canup was very 4 strong about this. 5 I don't -- I did not then nor do 6 I now see the need for the sign on that corner. 7 This is a residential area. I understand your 8 attempt at comparing the sizes, because you're 9 correct that last month, the sign was very large; 10 and that was another big concern. However, if my 11 memory serves me correct, we indicated that there 12 was not enough hardship created or indicated on 13 why this sign. 14 I believe that your partner 15 indicated they could not locate the one location 16 on 11 Mile? 17 MR. ROSSI: Yeah. They're 18 having a very difficult time getting people to 19 the site. Probably people within Novi no pretty 20 much where most of the subs are, but a lot of the 21 traffic and the people that are coming to this 22 particular subdivision are coming from outside of 23 the community. 24 So when they're driving through
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1 Novi, I mean, their eyes are going to go to the 2 first area that are, you know, the most exposure. 3 You know, Beck Road has a lot of exposure. You 4 know, the Mile Roads, Eight Mile, you know, Ten 5 Mile, you know, those roads have a lot of 6 exposure. But, you know, Nine Mile, 11 Mile -- 7 11 Mile especially, is very secluded with trees. 8 The sub is setback, and it's very, very 9 difficult, you know, to get people in there. 10 And I know they've been trying 11 to do a lot of advertising. They really feel and 12 I feel that having a sign off of Beck Road, I 13 feel that this sign is minimal in comparison to 14 some of the other signs that have been permitted. 15 I think it would help a great deal to the success 16 of that development. And certainly, I think, 17 everybody wants to see, you know, that occur in 18 the City, so. 19 I can understand how people 20 within Novi -- I mean, they should be aware of 21 where most of the subs are and they can come to 22 the City, and, you know, get to the locations of 23 the different subs; but not everybody does that, 24 especially people from outside the community;
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1 unless they're with realtors or people that know 2 the area very well. 3 I think they'd be missing out -- 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I'm sorry. 5 Are you talking about -- you're 6 getting calls from potential buyers saying, I 7 just can't find your subdivision? I guess I 8 don't know how you guys know that people are 9 not -- or is it directly due to the lack of sales 10 or is it directly due to the amounts of 11 complaints that you're getting from people 12 staying I can't find you? 13 MR. ROSSI: It's due to the lack 14 of sales, but it's also due to the people that 15 are finally finding out about the subdivision -- 16 they've already bought somewhere else, not 17 knowing that Asbury was a consideration for them. 18 And so what's happening with the salespeople is, 19 you know, we're getting calls saying, hey look, 20 you know, we're missing out on some of the 21 traffic that we could be, you know, handling 22 through this subdivision, if we had the proper 23 advertising, marketing, whatever you want to call 24 it.
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1 And certainly, we're not trying 2 to make, you know, a situation here that's a 3 visual problem. I think we're trying to blend in 4 with the area. And I think this would be a great 5 help to everybody in that subdivision, you know, 6 if we could get the support. And, you know, it 7 does have to do with sales; no question about 8 that. 9 And I think if we get more 10 traffic inside the subdivision that the sales 11 will definitely, you know, increase. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 13 Mr. Chair, I'm going to request 14 that this case be tabled for the reasons that our 15 two other Board Members that were here -- that 16 they are not here this evening -- were -- felt 17 very strongly against this. I -- and I do, as 18 well. I don't -- I'm not comfortable with 19 putting a sign at that particular corner. 20 I agree that Mr. Rossi has done 21 a better delivery than the previous Petitioner, 22 however, I'm still not comfortable with that 23 particular location at that -- at the 11 Mile and 24 Beck site.
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1 And so, I will not be supporting 2 this this evening, and I will be recommending to 3 the Petitioner that this be tabled for a full 4 Board. 5 That would be my recommendation. 6 Thank you. 7 MEMBER FISCHER: At this time, I 8 feel that -- once again, I fell that the 9 Petitioner met my burden of practical difficulty 10 for this case. That's a less burden than undue 11 hardship. And I'm going to let the other Board 12 Members play out whether or not they would like 13 to see a Motion made. 14 I gave the opportunity to the 15 Petitioner themselves to table the case at the 16 beginning of the meeting, because we did not have 17 a full Board. So I feel that it's not the 18 Board's decision to not give them the right of 19 getting a up or down vote, should the Board go 20 that way tonight; just because some Board Members 21 are absent. 22 So that being said, any other 23 comments? 24 Member Brennan?
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1 MEMBER BRENNAN: This is new 2 construction. How many homes are up? 3 MR. ROSSI: There is 4 approximately -- maybe 12, 13 homes up. 5 MEMBER BRENNAN: How many sites? 6 MR. ROSSI: 45. 7 MEMBER BRENNAN: And there's 12 8 up. 12 sold? 9 MR. ROSSI: No. There's 10 probably six or seven spots; a couple of models; 11 and, you know, three or four sales. 12 MEMBER BRENNAN: Generally, we 13 also look at duration. We haven't discussed 14 that. And, you know, can we start with a year; 15 is that something that's in your mindset as 16 acceptable? 17 A. At least a year would be -- yeah would be good. 18 MEMBER BRENNAN: I don't know of 19 a new subdivision anywhere that he haven't 20 granted marketing signs. 11 Mile is not a high 21 traffic road by any stretch. I live at Ten Mile 22 and Beck. 10 Mile is heavily travelled; 11 Mile 23 is not. And, I think it makes sense to put a 24 marketing sign on a corner that gets traffic to
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1 where it's going. He has a right to have a 2 marketing sign. 3 It sounds like from what I've 4 heard there's been a great deal of movement on 5 their part with respect to size and style and 6 what's on it. I don't have a big deal with it. 7 I would support a Motion. 8 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 9 Member Brennan. 10 Any further discussion? 11 Member Krieger, the floor is 12 yours. 13 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes, thank you. 14 I have a question regarding the 15 two larger other signs, if they're on the 16 property, is there a luxury lake front 17 (unintelligible) properties. 18 MEMBER FISCHER: These are 19 located off-site. 20 MR. AMOLSCH: (Unintelligible) 21 on their property. There's not (unintelligible) 22 sign package of last year. The other off 23 premises signs (unintelligible.) 24 MEMBER FISCHER: I stand
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1 corrected, as usual. I remember another one 2 coming to us from off site. Sorry for confusing 3 it. 4 MEMBER KRIEGER: Okay. That was 5 it. 6 Thank you. 7 MEMBER FISCHER: Member Sanghvi? 8 MEMBER SANGHVI: No, I have no 9 comments. 10 MEMBER BRENNAN: I'll try a 11 Motion, see where the Board sits. Only goes one 12 way or the other way, you know. 13 With respect to Case, 05-080, I 14 would file -- or I would make a Motion that the 15 Petitioner's request for a marketing sign as 16 submitted be approved or the purposes of selling 17 outs the subdivision. 18 MEMBER FISCHER: There's a 19 Motion. 20 Is there a second? 21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second, with an 22 addition to the Motion, for a period of one year. 23 MEMBER BRENNAN: I'm sorry. 24 Thank you.
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1 MEMBER FISCHER: There's a 2 Motion to approve the sign for a period of one 3 year. There's a Motion and a second. 4 Any further discussion? 5 Seeing none, Ms. Backus, will 6 you please call the roll? 7 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 8 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 9 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 11 GAIL BACKUS: Member Krieger? 12 MEMBER KRIEGER: No. 13 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: No. 15 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 16 MEMBER FISCHER: Does it matter? 17 I'll still say Aye. 18 GAIL BACKUS: Motion fails, three 19 to two. 20 MEMBER FISCHER: Member Brennan? 21 MEMBER BRENNAN: You see what 22 our options are. We can't make a decision. We 23 don't have the people to do it. 24 I'll make a Motion to bring you
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1 back next month, second case. 2 MR. ROSSI: How many votes do you 3 need to -- 4 MEMBER BRENNAN: Four. 5 MR. ROSSI: I guess I don't have 6 a choice. 7 MEMBER BRENNAN: No, you really 8 don't. I mean, if you want your sign, you've got 9 to come back. 10 MR. ROSSI: Okay. 11 MEMBER BRENNAN: I'll make a 12 Motion in this case to bring him back for next 13 month, second case on the docket. 14 MEMBER FISCHER: There's a 15 Motion. 16 Is there a second? 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Second. 18 MEMBER FISCHER: Ms. Backus, 19 will you please call the roll. 20 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 21 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 22 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 24 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer?
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1 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 2 GAIL BACKUS: Member Krieger? 3 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 4 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 5 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 6 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes five 7 to zero. 8 MR. ROSSI: Thank you. 9 MEMBER FISCHER: See you next 10 month, but we won't make you wait so late. 11 MR. ROSSI: Thanks. 12 13 MEMBER FISCHER: And our last 14 case of the night, I would like to call Case 15 05-037A; is that correct, 37A? 16 MR. SAVEN: Correct. 17 GAIL BACKUS: Yes, that's 18 correct. 19 MEMBER FISCHER: Filed by James 20 Korte or 2034 Austin Drive. Mr. Korte is 21 requesting the -- to appeal the determination of 22 the Building Official that the proposed 23 construction at 2034 Austin Drive is an expansion 24 of a nonconforming use.
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1 As Board Members may remember, 2 this case was previously heard on May 3rd of this 3 year, Case Number ZBA 05-037, for a dimensional 4 variances regarding the side yards. At that 5 time, those dimensional variances were denied. 6 You are Mr. Korte. 7 Please raise your hand and be 8 sworn in by our secretary. 9 MR. KORTE: I am at a 10 disadvantage. My hearing aid went out again 11 today. I just had it repaired. I apologize. I 12 am not bionic. I would ask you to speak up. And 13 if you're speaking to me, look at me, and I 14 apologize for that inconvenience, and I will pick 15 up everything you say. 16 And I again, apologize for that 17 inconvenience. 18 MEMBER FISCHER: No problem. 19 Board Members will assist you in 20 that. 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Can you raise 22 your right hand for me. 23 Do you swear or affirm that the 24 information that you're about to give in the
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1 matter before you is the truth? 2 MR. KORTE: Yes, I do. 3 MEMBER FISCHER: Please state 4 your name and address for the record. 5 MR. KORTE: James E. Korte. 6 This property is 2034. My address is 2026. 7 MEMBER FISCHER: Austin Drive. 8 MR. KORTE: Yes, I'm sorry. 9 That'll confuse everyone. 10 I am here for several reasons, 11 and there has been some controversy over why I'm 12 back and how I'm back. And I will get rid of 13 some of that first. And I will talk quickly. 14 It's been a short meeting, and I don't want to 15 hold you any longer. 16 I'm sworn to tell the truth. 17 People that come up and talk of me aren't sworn 18 to tell the truth. The last time I was here, 19 your judgment was made on misconception and lack 20 of information; neither of which was particularly 21 my fault, but I understand why the judgment was 22 made. 23 I'm here to hopefully correct 24 that situation. One of the situations of a
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1 neighbor convinced you that the property line of 2 the house next door was zero. If you look at the 3 paperwork, you will see that there is a -- I 4 would say deeded lot line. There are always 5 deeded lot lines. There is a survey lot line 6 that shows it approximately two feet. 7 Now, two feet isn't enough 8 anywhere, but there is a difference in zero lot 9 line and two feet lot line. Now, we also had a 10 problem -- and I think Member Brennan certainly 11 wasn't confused -- but asked questions as to what 12 is the foundation; is it a foundation; and what's 13 going on with the foundation. 14 And the City, during my first 15 court situation, refused to even get involved 16 with if it is or if it wasn't. I was in court 17 again and given a 60 day ultimatum -- and you 18 will be reading a letter from someone here this 19 evening -- that says the only reason I'm back is 20 because I have to tear it down. Not true. 21 What the Court said is I have 60 22 days to alter, correct, make legal -- and I'm 23 looking for exactly the right word. That's why 24 I'm back here. Just before that court case, I
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1 went to the Building Department, and they again 2 refused to inspect the property for any amount of 3 money. Therefore, I got licensed people to 4 inspect -- and you should have that paperwork in 5 front you. 6 And low and behold, I do have a 7 foundation; and it's the same foundation that I 8 said was put in in the '50's the last time I was 9 here. Now, as we go through, and if you look at 10 the exact same diagram -- with a few changes -- 11 and the changes have put the property in next 12 door -- from the foundation to foundation -- I 13 still have approximately ten feet. Nobody has 14 ten feet on my side of the road. 15 Now, that's a surveyed lot line. 16 Last time no one asked me where that lot line 17 was. You brought one of the neighbors up and he 18 assured you that it was zero clearance, not true. 19 And the joke in that whole matter is rather 20 recently he had to tear a beautiful shed down on 21 his property because it wasn't built on his 22 property. 23 He can convince you where my lot 24 lines are, and he doesn't know where his own are.
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1 Now, that's a tragedy that that beautiful shed 2 came down. I would think -- after they speak 3 again -- I would like right of rebuttal, which is 4 not exactly the situation -- so I can get ready 5 of all of the misnomers that they put on you this 6 time. 7 Last time you were told that 8 there was a presumption, all of my occupancy 9 permits have been revoked. Impossible situation; 10 the City can't do it. I never had a house 11 condemned. That was Henrietta's. So let's make 12 sure your picking on the right person when you 13 blaspheming them. 14 The only legitimate one was my 15 neighbor on the empty lot -- who is here this 16 evening -- and he said I had a roof over a roof 17 that disappeared. Still don't know what that is. 18 And said I was working without permit and 19 illegal. And I think if you would check with the 20 Building Department -- and Don is here -- I am in 21 no illegality whatsoever; with the exception of 22 this addition, as we speak. 23 The two easements across the 24 street from me are both illegal. One -- and
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1 person's here -- even built a shed illegally, no 2 permits in a drainage easement. And when the 3 City does approval that -- which there's no 4 reason that they won't -- the shed will have to 5 be moved, or he'll have to come to you, because 6 it doesn't fit zoning. Yet these people can 7 blaspheme me. 8 MR. SAVEN: Mr. Chairman? 9 Mr. Chairman, if I may -- 10 I'm sorry, Jim. Stick to the 11 facts. 12 MR. KORTE: That's fine. 13 MR. SAVEN: I mean, we're here 14 for case. There's no need to go around the whole 15 neighborhood, go through everything here -- 16 MR. KORTE: Then if I have right 17 of rebuttal -- 18 MEMBER FISCHER: Mr. Korte? 19 MR. KORTE: I will get to the 20 case. 21 MEMBER FISCHER: Mr. Korte, your 22 time limit is approaching. Your time limit is 23 approaching. Please stick to the facts of case 24 --
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1 MR. KORTE: If you look at this, 2 you'll see -- 3 MEMBER FISCHER: -- 4 (interposing)(unintelligible) regarding this -- 5 MR. KORTE: I'll talk as quick 6 as I can. 7 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you. 8 MR. KORTE: There is a yellow 9 spot that is the addition. There is a pink spot 10 that the foundation goes out to. Last time what 11 I said is I removed the sheds from the that 12 area -- there were structure on it from the 13 '70's. And the Ordinance that Don brought up 14 last time is if the structure is removed for any 15 reason -- and I was the reason in this 16 situation -- you can build over the structure -- 17 over the foundation. 18 And now, we have licensed people 19 that say the foundation does exist. Therefore, 20 that pink spot there, I could be building over. 21 And as last time, I said, I chose not to go out 22 that far, because there was in reason to. So I 23 am building less by two feet than was removed. 24 Because the outer footprint hasn't changed. I am
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1 building approximately two foot less than the 2 structure that was removed; which still gives me 3 approximately 8 feet from foundation to lot line; 4 and another two feet from foundation -- from lot 5 line to neighbor. 6 And it's as simple as that. So 7 I am reducing the nonconformity; not adding to 8 it. 9 Thank you. 10 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you very 11 much. 12 MR. KORTE: And I will not be 13 hearing what they say, because I don't have a 14 hearing aid; which is probably good. I won't get 15 upset. 16 Thank you. 17 MEMBER FISCHER: And I assure 18 you that first all the Zoning Board does look 19 purely on fact; and second of all, as far as your 20 right to rebuttal, if a new issue is brought up 21 -- 22 MR. KORTE: I'm sorry. 23 You are still speaking to me. 24 And I apologize.
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1 MEMBER FISCHER: As far as your 2 right to rebuttal, Mr. Korte, if a new issue is 3 brought up -- 4 MR. KORTE: If I stand in front 5 of the speaker -- and I apologize -- I will hear 6 you. 7 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 8 MR. KORTE: And I apologize. 9 Thank you. 10 MEMBER FISCHER: As far as your 11 right to rebuttal -- 12 MR. KORTE: I can hear you. 13 MEMBER FISCHER: -- if a new 14 issue is brought up or if a Board Member has a 15 question, you will have that right, as granted 16 through the Chairperson. Otherwise, we'll move 17 on with the Hearing. 18 And at this time -- 19 MR. KORTE: Thank you. 20 MEMBER FISCHER: -- I would 21 invite anyone from the audience that wishes to 22 address the Boards. 23 MR. KORTE: I will also ask to 24 stand under the speaker, and I apologize for
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1 that. 2 MEMBER FISCHER: You can stand 3 there. 4 Mr. Schultz? 5 MR. SCHULTZ: Thank you, 6 Mr. Chair. 7 I just thought before we get 8 into the public Hearing, just as a reminder to 9 the public, as well, as to what the limited issue 10 is that's before the Board tonight. 11 MEMBER FISCHER: Correct. 12 MR. SCHULTZ: This is not a 13 reconsideration of the case that was before the 14 Board back in May. You do recall what that case 15 was about, was a request by the proponent for a 16 variance for construction within the side yard 17 setback, which was denied; not appealed to the 18 Circuit Court; not a subject to reconsideration. 19 What's before you is the 20 separate question -- really kind of a -- more of 21 a legal question than you typically get -- which 22 is why we provided sort of a outline of a memo. 23 And the question is, was Mr. Saven correct when 24 the proponent came in and said, I don't need a
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1 side yard variance anymore now that I've thought 2 about this. I've got a foundation. I just want 3 to build over that foundation. So I'm a 4 nonconforming use and I want to reconstruct this. 5 And as the proponent point out, only part of it. 6 Mr. Saven concluded that he's 7 not rebuilding the same structure, and therefore 8 he's not within the rules for reconstructing a 9 nonconforming use. What existed on the 10 foundation -- according to the proponent -- was 11 sort of an exterior lean-to. What he's talking 12 about doing is building an addition to the home 13 with living space. 14 The material that Mr. Saven 15 relied on and that we have commented on in our 16 comment, indicates from our perspective that it's 17 not within the Ordinance. 18 And the question for the Board, 19 is do you believe that with the information that 20 was given you and section that we relied on, is 21 Mr. Saven incorrect in his interpretation of the 22 Ordinance. That's the limited narrow question. 23 All of the issues about who did what and 24 easements and thing like that, our inappropriate.
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1 The question is kind of technical, Ordinance 2 interpretation question, was Mr. Saven right in 3 the way he read the rule. 4 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you for 5 the review of the scope of the case, and to bring 6 it back very focused for us, so would we know 7 exactly what we're looking at. 8 The Petitioner -- or people in 9 the audience that wish to speak, go ahead and 10 lineup at this time. And actually, Madam 11 Secretary, go ahead and read the correspondence 12 before you guys speak, in case there's some 13 repetition. 14 So we had 34 notices mailed. 15 There were one approval and four objections. 16 Madam Secretary? 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes, 18 Mr. Chair. 19 The first approval is from Ann 20 and Kevin Stout -- and I apologize for the 21 mispronunciation -- at 1914 Austin Drive. This 22 residence and our neighborhood, we have a special 23 interest in it's beautification value. Please 24 consider our approval from Mr. Korte's appeals,
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1 so he may continue to complete his remodeling 2 process. 3 Next is an objection from Laura 4 Ann Reinhart Quint at 2219 Austin Drive. We 5 strongly object to the structure that Mr. Korte 6 built without a permit. You did not approve this 7 at May 3rd, 2005 meeting, and the only thing 8 that's changed is 52nd Circuit Court signed a 9 judgment and Ordered Mr. Korte to tear this 10 structure down. 11 We are outraged that the 12 residents of Austin are complying with the Code 13 and Mr. Korte is not. If the City of Novi allows 14 this structure to remain, it will be quite 15 apparent that they've disregarded the Court's 16 ruling, and that they are also very selective on 17 there ZBA rulings for certain residents. 18 The next one is from T. Malicki 19 at 2213 Austin. Objection, conforming, 20 nonconforming will not change any side yard 21 variance for construction at 2034 Austin is a 22 fire hazard. 23 Mr. Robins has -- Mr. Mark 24 Robins at 2293 and 2295 has submitted two
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1 objections. Mr. Robins indicates that he 2 understands the Mr. Korte has claimed that there 3 was an existing foundation at the property; and 4 that the expansion he has built is not an 5 expansion of a nonconforming use. 6 I believe if there is some sort 7 of slab of concrete there, it's nothing more than 8 just a slab of concrete; not what current 9 Building Codes require to meet the definition of 10 a buildable foundation. 11 There was never a liveable -- 12 any inhabited building where he claims there is a 13 foundation. The City of Novi would never allow 14 anyone to build an addition to a home on just an 15 old slab of concrete, regardless of the thickness 16 or consistency. I see no reason to make an 17 exception now. I've been advised that Mr. Korte 18 has consulted an expert regarding his foundation. 19 He claims to have the documentation calling it an 20 existing foundation. 21 I question the validity. 22 Mr. Korte has not allowed the City of Novi access 23 to investigate the claim, but he's willing to 24 bring in an expert. In order for the ZBA to even
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1 consider the appeal, our own inspectors should 2 have been granted access; not expected to just 3 take the word of an expert. 4 It is quite lengthy. I will go 5 on for a time. 6 I am not opposed to Mr. Korte 7 improving the property. I am opposed to the 8 current request. I would encourage him to invest 9 his money in cleaning up the (unintelligible) 10 property; and to stop wasting time and money on 11 projects which might lead to eventual 12 endangerment of others. 13 And that concludes the letters, 14 Mr. Chair. 15 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 16 Madam Secretary. 17 And now we ask anyone in the 18 audience to please come fault to the podium, if 19 you'd like to address the Board regarding this 20 case. 21 MR. WEINER: Sure. James T. 22 Weiner. I'm the owner of the vacant lot next 23 door. I oppose this, but there's one thing that 24 I did notice -- and I don't have the knowledge
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1 and the privy of seeing were your packet -- but, 2 he has not presented when he tore down that shed 3 versus putting it up. If it was down for more 4 than six months -- according to Donald Saven -- 5 Mr. Saven's statement -- if it's down for more 6 than six months, it's -- it was outside of the 7 Ordinance, anyways. 8 So, that would be the issue. I 9 don't think that it would -- I think it was down 10 for significantly period of time. I don't know 11 that for a fact. I'm just assuming. As I said, 12 I had opposed it. In terms of the things -- 13 something I was running across -- one other thing 14 that I'd like to bring up, is that -- and I don't 15 know if -- Mr. Korte as four properties there or 16 five. I forgot which, but one thing he did say 17 back in 1970 -- 97, he said in front of this 18 Board that he was out of compliance with permits. 19 As we speak in, October 7th, 1977, as we speak, I 20 was before you at a ZBA situation -- not unlike 21 the Breshers -- which is a different case before 22 then -- I have started tearing down and 23 restructuring, and I don't have all my permits in 24 order.
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1 Okay. He said then he 2 continually disregarding the City -- rules of the 3 City of Novi. I'm reading directly from the 4 Minutes of October 7th, 1977 meeting 5 (unintelligible) say that. So I just don't want 6 you to reward him for his continual disregard of 7 the Township or the City Ordinance. 8 Thank you. 9 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you. 10 Anyone else? 11 Please come to the podium. 12 MR. SUTTON: I'll put a 13 photograph on here. I don't know if you can see 14 it. 15 MEMBER FISCHER: If you could 16 please state your name and address, as well, for 17 the record, sir. 18 MR. SUTTON: My name is James 19 Sutton. I live at 2270 Ground in Novi. 20 MEMBER FISCHER: If you could 21 turn your picture around. 22 Thank you. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr. Sutton, 24 just for the record, can you speak up a little
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1 bit. I'm having a hard time hearing you. 2 MR. SUTTON: It's okay. 3 This is picture is of the actual 4 address that we're speaking of at this meeting 5 tonight. And if you look to the right, you will 6 see some fresh plywood. And I hope that all of 7 you have driven by this address, have you? Has 8 everyone? 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Several 10 times, yes. 11 MR. SUTTON: And just like 12 Mr. Weiner before me, I mean, we're just sick, 13 because this has been going on for 20 years in 14 this area. This man has owned at least one 15 property or been involved with one property for 16 20 years. But I've been in the subdivision for 17 about 12 years. Nothing has changed. 18 The man some how comes in -- 19 even this meeting tonight, we're all shocked that 20 he has even, you know, had the time given to him 21 to come here for what. But, like Mr. Weiner said 22 before him, you know, he took Mr. Saven's, you 23 know, words out of context. And by Mr. Korte's 24 words, too. He said he built it in the '50's.
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1 He removed it in the '70's. And according to the 2 rule, it's like a 180 days to rebuild. But these 3 are, you know, facts. 4 And it's just -- it's sad that 5 we're wasting our time here again tonight on this 6 same particular person. And every one of his 7 houses look that bad or worse; and I think that 8 something needs to be done about all of them. 9 MEMBER FISCHER: Well, this one 10 is the one in question tonight, so we'll stick to 11 that as the topic. 12 Is there anyone else? 13 Is there any other comments from 14 you, sir? 15 MR. SUTTON: No, thank you. 16 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you. 17 Is there anyone else in the 18 audience? 19 If you could please state your 20 name and address for the record. 21 MS. QUINT: Good evening. I'm 22 Laura Quint, 2219 Austin Drive. And yes, we do 23 strongly object to this. Because at the last 24 meeting, Mr. Saven did say -- you know, it was
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1 like a 180 days to rebuild. If it was built in 2 the '50's; and he tore it down in the '70's -- 3 that's what Mr. Korte said -- 4 MR. KORTE: No, it isn't. 5 MEMBER FISCHER: Mr. Korte? 6 MS. QUINT: -- that's 30 years or 7 better. You know, I, personally, myself and my 8 family, are tired of being harassed by this 9 gentleman; and now he wants to find away to 10 personally attack me, because I come here and 11 state facts; facts that the Board has found. The 12 Board has turned down. 13 August 4th, the District Court 14 signed a Judgment, tear it down. Here we are. 15 Why? We are all in compliance, but we live on 16 nightmare of Austin Drive. We're in compliance. 17 We are held to the high standards of the City of 18 Novi. I don't mind that. But, you know what, I 19 don't want to be run out of my home that I have 20 spent so much time and energy; and my 21 neighbors -- all of us, except for Mr. Korte -- I 22 know we're discussing this one property -- but 23 take care of the one property. And it's already 24 been stated from the Court, to what was said at
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1 the last meeting 180 days, wasn't rebuilt. 30 2 years later, he wants to rebuild without a 3 permit. 4 Had he pulled a permit or tried 5 to pull a permit, he would have known that he 6 couldn't do so; and we wouldn't be here. 7 Thank you. 8 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you very 9 much for your comment. 10 Anyone else in the audience? 11 Name and address, as well, 12 please. 13 MR. MARSH: Good evening. My 14 name is Chuck Marsh. I live at 18416 15 (unintelligible) Novi, Michigan. I own two homes 16 on Austin Street, 2001 Austin Street and 2007 17 Austin Street. 18 I purchased those homes less 19 than a year ago. I had no idea a year ago when I 20 purchased those homes that I would be moving on a 21 block like this. I have to say that just about 22 every single resident on that block wants to take 23 care of their home, but also wants to improve it. 24 Since I have bought those
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1 properties -- and the property that I bought 2 needed cosmetic work very badly, and I have done 3 that. I met Mr. Korte. I was very cordial to 4 him and very nice to him. He has done nothing 5 but continually called the City on violations as 6 to garbage not being picked up. 7 He has a neighbor told me 8 garbage day was a certain day. I took his word 9 and put it out that day. My point being is this. 10 He's coming up with every excuse by pulling at 11 every other neighbor -- including myself, who 12 barely even knows this man at all -- and saying 13 that I'm in violation of things, which in 14 reality, I am not in any way, shape or form. 15 And his home -- and I know you 16 guys have driven by there -- and the time I've 17 been in this meeting, I see that you do care for 18 the City of Novi. I care for the City of Novi. 19 I've invested a lot of money in these homes. And 20 you go down that street of Austin Street, and I 21 don't believe there's a person on this Board that 22 could honestly say that those properties aren't 23 -- not only an eyesore, but they are dangerous. 24 They are dangerous pieces of property.
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1 There is -- on the home that 2 he's talking about, there's a tarp, a blue tarp 3 onto the roof. There's bare wood. And to build 4 on -- to add on, he hasn't finished what he 5 started. I can't imagine anyone on this Board 6 okaying him to do anything new, when he hasn't 7 finished what he started. 8 And if -- this is being 9 televised. I encourage every citizen in Novi to 10 go down Austin Street and see these three 11 properties. 12 MEMBER FISCHER: All right, sir. 13 Let's stick to the facts of the case here. 14 MR. MARSH: Okay. 15 Well, the facts are, that this 16 man is coming up here -- a taxpayer, which I am 17 on two properties on that street -- and I come 18 up, and every single person in every department 19 knows him by name, and no one is doing anything. 20 And I -- as someone who is just purchased two 21 properties in this City -- would like to know 22 why. Why is it he gets away with this? Why is 23 it, as a resident, I have to be in fear of this 24 man coming and making bogus claims against me and
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1 my property; and now starting on my tenants, 2 which are young professional girls, and he's 3 starting on them. 4 Where are the protection for us, 5 is what I would I like to know. 6 And the fact that these two 7 properties -- three properties are in extremely 8 bad shape. 9 That's all I have to say. 10 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you very 11 much for your comments. 12 Anyone else in the audience? 13 Seeing none, we will close the 14 audience participation part of this Hearing, and 15 move to the Building Department. 16 MR. SAVEN: Mr. Chair, Members 17 of the Board, as indicated, this case was before 18 you previously. It was for a dimensional 19 variance. What's before you now is he is 20 contesting my decision regarding the issue of 21 nonconforming matter. 22 As indicated by his letter, this 23 particular foundation housed a pump and a tank, I 24 do believe that's what it was used for. This
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1 addition that he's built over the foundation is 2 one which deals with usable floor area. Whether 3 it's habitable or inhabitable (unintelligible) 4 determination of the Code as it exists today. 5 This is the issue why he is here 6 today. 7 MEMBER FISCHER: Mr. Schultz? 8 MR. SCHULTZ: Just to 9 (unintelligible) a couple of people mentioned 10 the -- why is he here for the second time. This 11 is a different question; fully entitled, just 12 like anybody else that (unintelligible) the 13 Building Department and appeals that decision 14 (unintelligible) just a clarification. 15 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you very 16 much. We appreciate that clarification. 17 And I'll move to Board Member 18 comments. 19 Member Brennan? 20 MEMBER BRENNAN: The Petitioner 21 suggested that when we made our decision a few 22 months back that we had a lack of information, 23 and that might be true. It's not the case today. 24 We've got information from the Building
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1 Department, and we have information from the 2 Legal Department. And in a nut shell, the 3 Building Department is adamant in their position 4 that the addition wasn't -- was an addition to -- 5 was an expansion of a nonconforming structure. 6 Legal as confirmed that 7 position; and if the Board is in agreement, I'll 8 make a Motion. 9 MEMBER FISCHER: Member Krieger? 10 MEMBER KRIEGER: I'm sorry. I 11 have a question. I am not exactly sure what 12 Mr. Korte is looking for. By nonconforming 13 (unintelligible.) 14 MR. SAVEN: That is correct. 15 MEMBER FISCHER: Mr. Schultz? 16 MR. SCHULTZ: Are you looking 17 for an explanation of what a finding of 18 nonconforming would allow him to do? 19 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 20 MR. SCHULTZ: He's saying that 21 if Mr. Saven had agreed with him that it was -- 22 that this is a nonconforming use, he could 23 rebuild something on that foundation. And 24 Mr. Saven has said in his ruling, no, you can't
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1 because your not rebuilding the same thing, a 2 pump house or whatever it was. You're rebuilding 3 an addition on your house with possibly a usable 4 area. That's not permitted under our Ordinance. 5 He's appealing that ruling. And 6 we're -- as Member Brennan has pointed out, in 7 agreement with Mr. Saven's ruling, but you, 8 ultimately, as the ZBA, get to make the 9 determination whether Mr. Saven was correct. 10 MEMBER KRIEGER: 11 (Unintelligible.) 12 MR. SCHULTZ: (Unintelligible) 13 A. 14 MEMBER KRIEGER: I would have a 15 concern that on the slab, if it was a foundation 16 that was safe and secure and you could add onto 17 it, I would not have a issue with what's down 18 there, as long as it meets the Ordinance. If 19 it's the (unintelligible) in feet, the amount 20 space between the neighbors. But, if it's about 21 the word of -- between people then, I have 22 concerns about that also. 23 Thank you. 24 MEMBER FISCHER: Exactly what
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1 we're looking at is purely an expansion of a 2 nonconforming use, and Mr. Saven's decision. And 3 so the setback really doesn't have as much 4 concern with this case as that (unintelligible.) 5 MR. SCHULTZ: Correct. 6 MEMBER FISCHER: Member 7 Gronachan? 8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you 9 Chairman Fischer. 10 Member Krieger, I know this is 11 kind of brand new and different from -- and being 12 that you're the newest member, let me assure you 13 that what's going on here -- if I can just take a 14 minute -- because I think there were some 15 concerns with the residents, as well. So maybe I 16 can clear up both of those. 17 Because this is nonconforming, 18 and to add onto anything that's nonconforming -- 19 unless it's the exact same thing, you can't do 20 it. That's the basic thing. 21 Okay. If it was an addition, 22 all right, then they could put another addition. 23 But that's not what he wants to do. 24 Does that help clear it up a
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1 little bit? 2 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 3 Thank you. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 5 I appreciate the fact that 6 everybody tried to stay on fact tonight with the 7 case. And the only thing I'm going to add to 8 this, is that we as a Board, have a whole list of 9 experts that we deal with. Two of them happen to 10 be sitting farther down this table. 11 One has a vast number of years 12 of experience with this City. And as a ZBA 13 Member, to be honest with you, I'm on this Board 14 because of him; because of my respect for him; 15 because of my respect for his knowledge. And if 16 anybody should write a book on how it should be 17 done, I think it should be him, and that's 18 Mr. Saven. 19 There are times when we are -- 20 when case are presented to us that this Board 21 Member, doesn't even go to the Legal Department 22 first; she goes right to Mr. Saven. And that's 23 what kind of expertise and vast knowledge that we 24 have at this City.
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1 I'm saying that because, 2 Mr. Saven was called upon to make a decision, 3 which he did. And his decision is being 4 questioned. After that decision's being 5 questioned, they took it to our legal department; 6 and our legal department concurred with 7 Mr. Saven. Based on that information presented 8 to this particular Board Member, I am supporting 9 what Mr. Saven has done in his decision; and I 10 concur with what the Legal Department is doing. 11 On a side note, I know that some 12 of you residents are frustrated. But you need to 13 understand, this Board is not God. We are a 14 Hearing Board. We are a sub-judicial Board, if 15 you will, we hear these cases and have to rule 16 accordingly. 17 If you are having a problem, if 18 there is something in this city that's not 19 working for you, take it to City Hall, and start 20 working with the officials, and they will help 21 you in the best way they can. We don't want to 22 loss you as residents. We don't want you to get 23 frustrated, and believe me, this City works very 24 hard to protect it's own.
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1 That's all of our own. There's 2 no favoritism. There's no bending over. There's 3 no payoff. And there was reference to it earlier 4 this morning, and you saw this whole table almost 5 take off. So if you have a problem, bring it to 6 City Hall, work with the officials, and get it 7 worked out. 8 And I welcome the newest member 9 in the neighborhood. I apologize that you're 10 having this kind of problem in your neighborhood. 11 I sympathize with you. I've been there. Stick 12 with it. Eventually, it will work itself out. 13 And so I will be in support of 14 any kind of Motion -- I don't know if you want me 15 to go with it or if anybody has anything else to 16 offer, but I'm ready to make a Motion; unless 17 anybody else -- in Case Number 05-37A, I move to 18 affirm the determination of the Building Official 19 to deny a building permit for the existing 20 addition for 2034 Austin, on the grounds that the 21 addition constitutes an unlawful expansion of a 22 previously existing nonconforming structure. 23 The addition would extend the 24 life of this structure; thereby increasing the
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1 existing nonconformity. 2 MEMBER BRENNAN: Second. 3 MEMBER FISCHER: There is a 4 Motion and a second on the table. 5 Is there any further discussion 6 from Board Members? 7 Member Krieger? 8 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 9 Thank you. 10 I concur with the previous 11 speakers and would hope that Mr. Korte would 12 review the information and -- for the 13 nonconforming structure, and go back to -- with 14 Mr. Saven and work it out, also. 15 Thank you. 16 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you for 17 those comments. 18 There is a Motion and a second. 19 Any other discussion? 20 Ms. Backus, will you please call 21 the roll in this case. 22 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 24 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan?
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1 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 2 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 3 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 4 GAIL BACKUS: Member Krieger? 5 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 6 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 7 MEMBER SANGHVI: 8 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes five 9 to zero. 10 MEMBER FISCHER: At this time 11 the Motion -- 12 MR. KORTE: Could you speak up, 13 please, sir. 14 I apologize. 15 MEMBER FISCHER: At this time 16 the Building Official's decision has been upheld. 17 MR. KORTE: Thank you. 18 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you. 19 MR. KORTE: I will see you in 20 Circuit Court. 21 Have a nice evening. 22 23 MEMBER FISCHER: And that is the 24 end of the cases before us tonight.
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1 2 And last we are moving to other 3 matters. And tonight we have something back 4 before us concerning ZBA Case Number 05-112, for 5 43443 Grand River, formerly Antiques and Pines 6 Design in our packets. We did receive a letter, 7 and basically the Petitioner is requesting an 8 extension for permitting. 9 I guess I would ask the Building 10 Department if they'd like to comment? 11 MR. SAVEN: I sure would. 12 Right now, the City of Novi and 13 the surrounding districts are going through a 14 change in the FEMA elevations or (unintelligible) 15 maps for flood planes. This was a proposed 16 project that was approved, but cannot move 17 forward until we have this approval for the 18 change in elevation. Basically, it's almost 19 physically impossible to take care of this one 20 project that was approved. 21 They need to have that approval. 22 It's supposed to happen sometime in -- if I can 23 recall, it's supposed to happen sometime in 24 October. I'm not sure when in October. But like
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1 any other Government (unintelligible) it maybe a 2 little bit longer than that. 3 The maps have been done, but 4 they went through the public Hearing, and all the 5 changes that are necessary, it's going to be a 6 prolonged -- it's going to be a prolonged issue 7 you for reproduction of new maps and new 8 elevations. 9 I would ask that we grant the 10 one year extension to this. I feel comfortable 11 within that one year extension -- I don't want 12 this gentleman hanging outs there in no man's 13 land in the event, I can't do anything. 14 So if it's possible, I'd ask the 15 Board to grant them a one year extension for the 16 ZBA approval. 17 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. They 18 were -- the Motion was passed on November 9th of 19 2004. They had nine months from there, I guess, 20 or a year additional? 21 MR. SAVEN: At least a year 22 additional. 23 MEMBER BRENNAN: Are you asking 24 that be from today?
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1 MR. SAVEN: From today. 2 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 3 Today. 4 MR. SAVEN: I just want to cover 5 all the bases, because I'm not bringing them back 6 (unintelligible) yo-yo. I don't have control 7 offer this. This is a little -- 8 MEMBER FISCHER: Are you telling 9 me government can take a little longer than 10 anticipated, sometimes? 11 Member Brennan, you have the 12 floor. 13 MEMBER BRENNAN: I'd make a 14 Motion with respect to Case, 05-0112, that the 15 Petitioner's request for an extension be granted 16 for one year from this evening. 17 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 18 MEMBER FISCHER: There's a 19 Motion and a second. 20 Ms. Backus, will you call the 21 roll. 22 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 23 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 24 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi?
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1 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 2 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 3 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 4 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 6 GAIL BACKUS: And Member 7 Krieger? 8 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 9 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes five 10 to zero. 11 MEMBER FISCHER: All right. 12 That concludes our meeting for 13 tonight. 14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: 15 (Unintelligible) you needed a answer on this 16 calendar? 17 MEMBER FISCHER: She already 18 accepted the dates for us on -- given, you know, 19 recommendations we had from last year anyway. So 20 this already set up by the Clerk's Office, 21 anyway. Last year we were able to make some 22 adjustments, because of the fact of the holidays. 23 But Gail was so kind that she took care of that 24 already.
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1 So it's for our information 2 only for next year, calendar year. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It says, I 4 need an answer tonight, on my note. 5 MEMBER FISCHER: The Clerk's 6 Office needed an answer from Gail. 7 Seeing no other business before 8 this Board, I would entertain a Motion to 9 adjourn. 10 MEMBER BRENNAN: So moved. 11 MEMBER FISCHER: All in favor 12 say aye? 13 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 14 MEMBER FISCHER: This Board is 15 adjourned. 16 (The meeting was adjourned at 17 10:20 p.m.) 18 - - - - - 19 20 21 22 23 24
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1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 3 I, Machelle Billingslea-Moore, 4 do hereby certify that I have recorded 5 stenographically the proceedings had and testimony 6 taken in the above-entitled matter at the time and 7 place hereinbefore set forth, and I do further certify 8 that the foregoing transcript, consisting of (162) 9 typewritten pages, is a true and correct transcript 10 of my said stenograph notes. 11 12 13 ___________________________ Machelle Billingslea-Moore, 14 Certified Shorthand Reporter 15 16 September 21, 2005. (Date)
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