| View Agenda for this meeting View Action Summary for this meeting REGULAR MEETING - ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Proceedings had and testimony taken in the matters of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, Monday, March 10, 2008. BOARD MEMBERS ALSO PRESENT: REPORTED BY: 1 Novi, Michigan 2 Monday, March 10, 2008 3 7:00 p.m. 4 - - - - - - 5 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: The time is now 6 7:01 and I would like to call the Monday, 7 March 10th, Zoning Board of Appeals meeting 8 to order. 9 Mr. Vice-Chair, would you please lead 10 the Board in the Pledge of Allegiance. 11 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I will be 12 delighted. I pledge allegiance to the flag 13 of the United States of America and to the 14 Republic for which it stands, one nation 15 under God indivisible with liberty and 16 justice for all. 17 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Ms. Working, 18 would you please call the roll. 19 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer? 20 MEMBER BAUER: Present. 21 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 22 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Here. 23 MS. WORKING: Member Shroyer? 24 MEMBER SHROYER: Here.
4 1 MS. WORKING: Chairman Fischer? 2 CHAIRMAN FISCHER: Present. 3 MS. WORKING: Member Krieger? 4 Member Wrobel? 5 MEMBER WROBEL: Present. 6 MS. WORKING: Member Ibe? 7 MEMBER IBE: Present. 8 MS. WORKING: Member Krieger is not 9 here, Mr. Chair. 10 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you, Ms. 11 Working. We do have a quorum, so this 12 meeting is now in session. 13 We do have a change of format for this 14 evening. Oftentimes in the past we had our 15 Vice-Chair read the rules of conduct. 16 The rules of conduct can be found on 17 the agenda which is in the back of the room 18 or it also can be found at the City Hall or 19 on the web site. And for audience members 20 at home the cable team should be working on 21 running the rules of conduct for you at this 22 time on the bottom of the screen. 23 The Zoning Board of Appeal is a 24 Hearing Board empowered by the Novi City
5 1 Charter to hear appeals seeking variance 2 from the application of the Novi Zoning 3 Ordinances. It takes a vote of at least 4 four members to approve a variance request 5 and a vote of the majority present to deny a 6 request. 7 The Board consist of seven members and 8 one alternate member. The alternate member 9 has the right to participate in all board 10 discussions and hearings, but may not vote 11 except in the absence or abstention of a 12 regular remember. 13 Tonight with Ms. Krieger absent 14 actually, is our new person, Member Gannum 15 (ph) -- 16 MS. WORKING: Is he not present. 17 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Tonight we have 18 six Board Members currently. Have we heard 19 from Ms. Krieger as to whether or not she 20 would be here? 21 MS. WORKING: I have not. 22 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: At this time 23 I'll ask any of the Petitioners since we 24 don't have a full seven member Board if
6 1 anyone would like to table their case at 2 this time? Seeing none, we will proceed and 3 hopefully Ms. Krieger will join us. 4 We do have an agenda in front of us. 5 Are there any changes? 6 MS. WORKING: Mr. Chair, I would like 7 to just bring to your attention that the 8 case number seven on the agenda, ZBA 08-007, 9 has been postponed to the April meeting and 10 you have an updated agenda reflecting that 11 postponement. 12 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Perfect. Is 13 there a motion to approve? 14 MEMBER BAUER: So moved -- 15 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Second. 16 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: All in favor of 17 approving the agenda say aye? 18 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 19 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Opposed say nay? 20 Agenda is approved. 21 In our member packets tonight everyone 22 should have received the meeting minutes 23 from February 2008. I will hold off and we 24 can review those over the next month and we
7 1 will slate those for approval during the 2 April meeting. 3 At this time we're to the public 4 remarks section of the agenda. Is there 5 anyone in the audience that wishes to 6 comment to the Board regarding anything that 7 is not on the agenda tonight? Seeing none, 8 we'll close the public remarks section and 9 move on to our first case. 10 11 That is case number: 07-094 12 filed by Jeffrey Wainwright for Paradise 13 Park located at 45799 Grand River. 14 Is the Petitioner here today? Did it 15 snow in the last hour that I'm not aware of? 16 MEMBER SHROYER: They think it's 17 tomorrow night, Tuesday. 18 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: They might. All 19 right, we will go ahead and postpone that to 20 the end of the meeting. We'll revisit that 21 and see if the Petitioner will show up. 22 23 Moving along to case number two on the 24 agenda which is case number: 07-097 filed
8 1 by Patrick Stieber of Allied Signs for Men's 2 Warehouse Tuxedo. 3 Is the Petitioner here today? 4 MS. DUMLOWE (ph): Yes. 5 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: The request is 6 for 27500 Novi Road, Space D290. The 7 Applicant is requesting a 41.7 square foot 8 illuminated wall sign variance for the 9 placement of an exterior elevation wall sign 10 located at said address at Twelve Oaks Mall. 11 The property is zoned RC and is located 12 north of I-96 and east of Novi Road. 13 Are you an attorney by chance? 14 MS. DUMLOWE: No, I am not. 15 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Would you please 16 raise your right hand and be sworn in by our 17 Vice-Chair. 18 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Do you 19 swear or affirm that whatever you testify in 20 this case to be the truth and nothing but 21 the truth? 22 MS. DUMLOWE: Yes. 23 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 24 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: If you could
9 1 then go ahead and state your name and 2 address and proceed with your case. 3 MS. DUMLOWE: My name is Carrie 4 Dumlowe. I work with Allied Signs and my 5 address is 33650 Giftos Drive in Clinton 6 Township, Michigan. 7 We are requesting an additional wall 8 sign to replace the one that we had removed 9 when Men's Wearhouse updated their brand to 10 MW Tux. The sign was removed. It was 11 previously approved. The client was 12 supposed to add a rear entrance to that, the 13 north wall which the sign was removed from 14 and they never actually did that. So we are 15 requesting that we be allowed to reinstall a 16 new sign with their new branding on that 17 wall. 18 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you very 19 much. I will let everyone on the Board know 20 that in this case there were 44 notices 21 mailed with one approval and zero 22 objections. 23 The approval comes from Bruce A. Lloyd 24 of 27780 Novi Road, Number 110. Approval
10 1 saying: I see no problem with this request. 2 Is there anyone in the audience that 3 wishes to make a comment on this case? 4 Seeing none, we'll turn to the Building 5 Department and/or legal counsel to see if 6 there are any comments? 7 MR. AMOLSCH: No comments. 8 MS. KUDLA: No. 9 MR. FOX: No. 10 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Seeing none, 11 I'll go ahead and open it up for Board 12 discussion. 13 Member Bauer? 14 MEMBER BAUER: On the one from 2007 I 15 have a square footage of 30.75. Now they're 16 asking for 41.70. Did it grow? 17 MS. DUMLOWE: I'm sorry what was that? 18 MEMBER BAUER: In the -- excuse me 19 this was for another one. 20 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Mr. Shroyer -- 21 Member Shroyer? 22 MEMBER SHROYER: Thank you. I believe 23 what we were trying to look for is, how big 24 was the original sign that had been
11 1 approved? 2 MS. DUMLOWE: Let me see if I do have 3 that. I actually did look for that before I 4 came here, I figured that that would be one 5 of the questions that you guys would ask. 6 The survey was done before we received this 7 scope of work. However, I do know that the 8 new sign compared to the existing, the 9 previous branding are a lot smaller. 10 Instead of saying After Hours Formal 11 Wear it just got an M and a W and the word 12 Tux. So, as far as square footage I can 13 almost guarantee you that it is smaller. By 14 how much, I am not sure. 15 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Mr. Amolsch, can 16 you confirm that? 17 MR. AMOLSCH: The file is missing from 18 the files and the permit did not have a 19 square footage on it. 20 MEMBER SHROYER: Looking from their 21 rendering I can't see that much of a 22 difference. They look like the same size. 23 MS. DUMLOWE: Approximately, yeah. 24 MEMBER SHROYER: The wording is
12 1 smaller, but the sign itself is the same 2 size. Also, are we aware of how many other 3 stores at the mall that do not have outside 4 entrances have signs? 5 MR. AMOLSCH: There is none. All 6 signs at the mall have extra entranceways. 7 MEMBER SHROYER: I thought they did. I 8 have a concern about that. How many stores 9 do we have at the mall? Several hundred. 10 And this is the only one that's not an 11 anchor store with an outside entrance that 12 has a sign. So, I am a little concerned 13 about that and I'll listen to the rest of 14 the Board and see what they have to say and 15 move forward on decisions. 16 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 17 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you, 18 Member Shroyer. 19 Other Board Members? Member Wrobel? 20 MEMBER WROBEL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 21 I agree with Member Shroyer. I have a big 22 concern with allowing this type of sign 23 since none of the others currently have it. 24 I think it sets a precedent which would open
13 1 up the doors for us to have multiple signs 2 there and I don't know if that's what we 3 quite want. But I will hear what my other 4 colleagues say before I decide. 5 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you, 6 Member Wrobel. 7 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I agree a 8 hundred percent. There are no signs hanging 9 up on the walls and it really sets a wrong 10 kind of precedent. I would have a very hard 11 time supporting this. Thank you. 12 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you, Mr. 13 Vice-Chair. I would echo those sentiments 14 as well. I don't see the practical 15 difficulty for this store versus the other 16 tenants in the mall, what makes this one 17 require that additional signage outside. 18 And I don't think we have seen that 19 evidenced tonight. 20 Any other Board Members? Member 21 Shroyer? 22 MEMBER SHROYER: If no one else wants 23 to speak I guess I can make a motion. On 24 case number: 07-097 I move that we deny a
14 1 variance which is case number: 07-097 filed 2 by Men's Wearhouse Tux because the 3 petitioner has not established a practical 4 difficulty. There has not been established 5 that the compliance with strict letter of 6 the restrictions of the ordinance would 7 reasonably prevent the use of the property 8 or be unnecessarily burdensome because the 9 Petitioner has not established a uniqueness 10 from all other mall stores without outside 11 entrances that would justify their receiving 12 permission for an outside illuminated wall 13 sign. 14 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 15 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: There is a 16 motion and a second on the floor. Any other 17 further comments? Seeing none, Ms. Working, 18 will you please call the roll. 19 MS. WORKING: Member Shroyer? 20 MEMBER SHROYER: Yes. 21 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer? 22 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 23 MS. WORKING: Member Wrobel? 24 MEMBER WROBEL: Yes.
15 1 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 2 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 3 MS. WORKING: Member Ibe? 4 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 5 MS. WORKING: Chairman Fischer? 6 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye. 7 MS. WORKING: Motion to deny passes 8 6-0. 9 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I'm sorry, at 10 this time your case has been denied. 11 MS. DUMLOWE: That's okay. Thank you 12 very much. 13 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you. 14 15 Moving along with case number 16 three on the agenda we have case number: 17 08-002 filed by Joseph Locricchio of 18 Trillium Village of Novi located at Nine 19 Mile Road and Haggerty Road. 20 Is the Petitioner here today? 21 MR. LOCRICCHIO: Yes. 22 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Please come up 23 to the podium there. The Petitioner is 24 requesting one 15.5 square foot area sign
16 1 variance and one 3 foot sign height variance 2 for an eight foot tall real estate marking 3 sign to be located at the entrance of 4 Trillium Drive in Novi. The property is 5 zoned R-3 and located west of Haggerty Road 6 and north of Nine Mile Road. 7 Are you an attorney, sir? 8 MR. LOCRICCHIO: I am not. 9 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: If you could 10 please raise your hand and be sworn in by 11 our Vice-Chair. 12 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Do you 13 swear or affirm that you will tell the truth 14 in case number: 08-002? 15 MR. LOCRICCHIO: I do. 16 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 17 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Please state 18 your name and address and proceed with your 19 case. 20 MR. LOCRICCHIO: Joe Locricchio with 21 Trillium Village of Novi. Our corporate 22 address is 2617 Beacon Hill, Auburn Hills, 23 Michigan 48326. 24 We are requesting this variance
17 1 because Trillium is a for lease condominium 2 project. It is not a traditional apartment 3 complex that you would think is for lease, 4 number one. It's a smaller project. It's 5 only 34 units but it is identified by most 6 people as a fee simple project versus a for 7 lease condo project. Because of the type of 8 unit that it is, it's an upscale 9 condominium. And, again, it's only 34 units 10 so you don't get the traffic or the identity 11 as an apartment complex. 12 And we have -- our core customer is 13 typically a corporate user that's here on an 14 interim basis, a contractual basis whether 15 they're here for perhaps six months, perhaps 16 two years, but we have continual turnover 17 and inconsistent turnover. And we need to 18 have the marketing opportunity. Our window 19 here is small. 20 We don't have a boulevard entrance, we 21 just have a curb cut. There is really not 22 an opportunity to put the sign on the 23 right-of-way area. So we need to have 24 something that will attract people to us and
18 1 this is really our primary form of 2 marketing. So, to have the normal size sign 3 it would be pretty well sitting where the 4 existing sign is and would be hardly seen. 5 And, so, it's essential to the ongoing 6 viability of the project that we have the 7 opportunity to market in this way. 8 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you, sir. 9 Let me tell the Board that at this point 10 there were 54 notices mailed with zero 11 approvals and zero objections. 12 Is there anyone in the audience that 13 wishes to make a comment on this case? 14 Seeing none, I'll move to the Building 15 Department and legal counsel. 16 MR. AMOLSCH: No comment, sir. 17 MS. KUDLA: We have no comment. 18 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I will open it 19 up for Board discussion. Member Sanghvi? 20 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Question. 21 Is this any different than the sign they 22 have had all along? 23 MR. AMOLSCH: Yes, it's a bigger sign. 24 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: How much
19 1 bigger is this one? 2 MR. AMOLSCH: The original sign was a 3 4x4, 16 square feet. 4 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: How is 5 business? How are you doing in this 6 economic times? 7 MR. LOCRICCHIO: Well, it's okay. 8 During the life of this project we have only 9 had one period where we are fully leased. 10 Right now we have a handful of vacancies. 11 We had several contracts that expired 12 earlier than anticipated, so we have been 13 hit with more vacancies than we are 14 comfortable with. I mean, we are 15 comfortable with zero vacancies, but it 16 hasn't really happened yet, so. 17 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: How do you 18 think this increase in the size of your sign 19 is going to have any affect on -- 20 MR. LOCRICCHIO: Just because that's 21 really the reason we get people into this 22 project is because of the drive by because 23 it's such a great location. That's what our 24 marketing window is. And as we said, it's
20 1 not readily identified as a for lease 2 project. So, people driving by that's how 3 we get them in the door. 4 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Let me put 5 it another way. Why do you think the other 6 sign did any worse than the new sign will 7 do? 8 MR. LOCRICCHIO: Well, this new sign 9 is here currently. It works. I mean, it 10 brings people into the project. So I can 11 tell you that it is very effective and it's, 12 again, it's our sole, other than 13 advertising, you know, internet and 14 newspaper print and whatnot, this is the way 15 we get people here. And our feedback we get 16 from our customers, they came in and say, 17 oh, I didn't even realize you guys were 18 here. We saw your sign and we didn't know 19 that this was a for lease unit. We thought 20 it was a for sale unit. So, it's kind of 21 what we have to overcome. 22 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: So, you 23 think a sizeable difference has been made by 24 this new sign?
21 1 MR. LOCRICCHIO: I do, absolutely. 2 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 3 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Member Wrobel? 4 MEMBER WROBEL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 5 Right now you are saying this is a for 6 lease property. If I recall when they were 7 first built they were for sale, if I do 8 remember correctly. 9 MR. LOCRICCHIO: You know, I don't 10 think so. I think it's always been a for 11 lease. But perhaps I could be wrong about 12 that. I have been involved on the marketing 13 side of this project for about two years. 14 Ironically I was involved in the 15 original acquisition of the land, but I have 16 been apart from this project since that 17 time. 18 MEMBER WROBEL: Will this stay a 19 leased property or is this going to be 20 eventually -- 21 MR. LOCRICCHIO: No, the plan is to 22 keep it leased. 23 MEMBER WROBEL: A leased unit? 24 MR. LOCRICCHIO: Absolutely.
22 1 MEMBER WROBEL: This request is for a 2 permanent sign then is what we're looking 3 at? Or is this for another temporary sign? 4 Because I don't really see it noted in the 5 application anywhere.
6 MR. LOCRICCHIO: I guess it would be 7 considered permanent because of the nature 8 of the project. 9 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Alan, do you 10 have anything to add to that? 11 MR. AMOLSCH: The lease signs are for 12 lease, rental or for sale. It's just the 13 size difference. It's only about six square 14 feet, and five feet high for residential 15 property. 16 MEMBER WROBEL: Right now I am 17 hesitant in allowing a larger sign there 18 considering this could be here for a long 19 time. If it was a short-term sign or 20 something, I could live with it. It's kind 21 of big for that road down there. 22 I understand your point, people see 23 it, but there are other methods to get the 24 word out especially in this type of a
23 1 product. This isn't something that you 2 drive by and you -- you know the business. 3 MR. LOCRICCHIO: If it were to be a 4 temporary sign possibility, what length of 5 time would a temporary sign we would be able 6 to do? 7 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Well, let's see 8 (unintelligible). That's a road that's 9 definitely open to the Board to discuss a 10 time frame that we would allow this. 11 Member Wrobel? 12 MEMBER WROBEL: Just based upon that I 13 am kind of hesitant in allowing a larger 14 sign there. But I'm not a hundred percent 15 sold on that. So, I could be convinced. 16 But off the top of my head I would say it's 17 kind of too big. Thank you. 18 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you, 19 Member Wrobel. 20 Member Shroyer? 21 MEMBER SHROYER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 22 First of all, can you put a copy of the sign 23 on the overhead so our audience can see? 24 MR. LOCRICCHIO: I think this will
24 1 carry over. 2 MEMBER SHROYER: Dim the light so 3 everybody can see it. 4 MR. LOCRICCHIO: Just hit the power 5 button here? 6 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: You are fine. 7 You were before you hit the power button. 8 MEMBER SHROYER: Thank you. I viewed 9 this last month and so I am trying to make 10 sure I understand the signage. Is this the 11 complex, this sign is right adjacent to an 12 entryway sign? 13 MR. LOCRICCHIO: Yes. 14 MEMBER SHROYER: To the north of it, 15 right? 16 MR. LOCRICCHIO: That's correct. 17 MEMBER SHROYER: How big is that sign? 18 Four by five? 19 MR. LOCRICCHIO: That's a ground 20 monument sign. I don't know the size of it. 21 I would say it's probably -- Alan, would you 22 guess it's probably about eight feet long? 23 MR. AMOLSCH: It's probably about 24 24 square feet. It's out common entryway sign
25 1 size. 2 MEMBER SHROYER: I see that the 3 temporary sign was initially approved in 4 2005. So we have had a sign up there for a 5 few years. 6 Also, I note that this appeal is based 7 on notice of violation or citation issuance. 8 So, I assume that's because you put up the 9 larger sign? 10 MR. LOCRICCHIO: Right. This was a 11 permitted sign and I guess it went beyond 12 the allotted time, is that what is was? 13 MR. AMOLSCH: Yes, the original sign 14 was a construction identification sign. 15 Much smaller than we allow. 16 MEMBER SHROYER: Thank you. I am 17 hesitant as well. I agree with Member 18 Wrobel. Quite often for new establishments 19 I am in favor of temporary signage. Even 20 ones that perhaps exceeds the maximum 21 because I know it's only going to be up 22 there for 18 months or so. If we're looking 23 at making something more permanent because 24 it's always for lease type activity, I would
26 1 be more in favor of, first of all, a smaller 2 sign and/or only one sign on the property. 3 I can't see having one large vertical 4 sign and one horizontal sign practically 5 side by side at the same property. So, I 6 would probably be more open to some type of 7 addition to the monument sign saying open 8 for lease or rental or something. I'm not 9 sure what, but at this point I'm not in 10 favor of what is currently proposed. Thank 11 you. 12 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you, 13 Member Shroyer. 14 Member Bauer? 15 MEMBER BAUER: I go by this place two 16 or three times a day. With the other sign 17 that's there, the ground sign, there is no 18 need for these other signs. He could have a 19 smaller one for leasing. 20 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you, 21 Member Bauer. 22 Member Ibe? 23 MEMBER IBE: Sir, would you be, say, 24 amenable to something that is temporary?
27 1 How long do you think you might need such a 2 sign? In this touch economic time if 3 (unintelligible) is the motive, if that 4 would help to drive the marketing aspect, 5 what do you see as a temporary sign that you 6 can tell this Board? 7 MR. LOCRICCHIO: Well, ideally I would 8 love to have this through the key activity 9 times and selling times. For us there is a 10 couple of windows of opportunity. Typically 11 these corporate users as I said are our core 12 customers. They come over twice a year 13 under these contractual arrangements. 14 Typically in April and in August. So, you 15 know, that would be our key marketing time. 16 You know, as an alternative as Mr. 17 Shroyer said, you know, perhaps we could, if 18 the Board would consider it, is some sort of 19 amendment or addition or whatever to the 20 ground sign that gave us the opportunity to 21 say for lease on it. We just have the 22 Trillium sign there and there is really no 23 way to identify it other than it looks like 24 a condominium project for sale.
28 1 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you, 2 Member Ibe. 3 MEMBER IBE: Thank you. 4 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Any other Board 5 Member comments? It looks like we have an 6 array of possibilities in front of us. I'll 7 go ahead and make 8 a few comments. 9 Let's remember that if we were talking 10 about some type of amendment or change to 11 the subdivision sign we would have to 12 renotice anything like that. So that has 13 got to be a completely separate process. 14 Alan, I understand this is the same 15 sign that was allowed under construction and 16 is this the sign that was used at that prior 17 time? Or is this a brand new sign and also 18 a different new ordinance? 19 MR. AMOLSCH: This was a brand new 20 sign. The original sign was like I said, 21 four by four, 16 square feet. This was a 22 new sign that was put up. That sign, the 23 construction was valid under the old 24 ordinance or at least until the first
29 1 certificate of occupancy or last certificate 2 of occupancy under the new ordinance as the 3 first certificate of occupancy. So, we try 4 to catch these as the projects go along and 5 are finished and then we send them notices. 6 In the meantime they changed the sign into 7 this. 8 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Where are you at 9 right now as far as leasing these units? 10 MR. LOCRICCHIO: We currently have six 11 units vacant. 12 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Out of how many? 13 MR. LOCRICCHIO: Thirty-four. 14 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: One thing I did 15 notice is the bright red mark obviously. 16 Any approval I don't think I can support 17 with the now leasing bright red sign. I 18 don't think it -- it doesn't do much for the 19 aesthetics there. I think that the rest of 20 the sign looks in place, but I think that 21 takes it above and beyond what is necessary. 22 With that said, I could see my 23 personal opinion is to allow through the 24 August time frame, but at that time I would
30 1 expect the sign to come into compliance or 2 through September to allow for the window of 3 opportunity as the Petitioner had discussed. 4 That's my take. 5 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I agree. 6 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Board Members? 7 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I think 8 it's a great solution and we would leave it 9 be for the current year and revisit the 10 issue. I am not in favor of a permanent 11 sign. I don't know how many corporate 12 executives pick up a place to leave by 13 driving by. I am not really convinced about 14 that at all to be quite honest, but most of 15 the corporate leasing is done through rental 16 agency rather than coming themselves and 17 looking for a place in Novi on Nine Mile 18 Road. 19 But, seeing the way they are at the 20 moment I would be quite inclined to let them 21 ride until the end of this year and revisit 22 the issue depending upon the economic 23 situation in the country. Thank you. 24 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Member Shroyer?
31 1 MEMBER SHROYER: I too would be in 2 support of something on a very temporary 3 basis through summer, maybe into one month 4 into the fall or whatever because the 5 Applicant can always come back and request a 6 new variance for the permanent sign that's 7 there to enlarge it or to make something, to 8 add the verbiage that would say, now leasing 9 or whatever. Not that we are indicating 10 that that is what you should do or that even 11 that it would be approved if you did. We 12 can't go that route tonight. We are only 13 discussing this sign. But it would give him 14 an opportunity or give the organization an 15 opportunity to lease it through the summer 16 and then be revisited after that if the 17 Applicant so chooses. 18 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Does Member 19 Shroyer care to make a motion to that 20 affect? I think you put it so eloquently. 21 MEMBER SHROYER: I was prepared to 22 make a motion to deny. I suppose I can try 23 to ad lib it here. 24 In case number: 08-002 filed by
32 1 Joseph Locricchio of Trillium Village of 2 Novi located north of Nine Mile and Haggerty 3 or at Haggerty, to approve the sign as 4 submitted with the change of the bright red 5 now leasing portion to a more subdued color. 6 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I think we 7 should just take it off. 8 MEMBER SHROYER: With the removal of 9 now leasing portion of the sign. This 10 temporary sign is permitted to extend 11 through the end of September. And the 12 reasons are to allow for additional time to 13 rent the facilities based on the economic 14 considerations of the foregoing activities 15 until 2008, September of 2008. 16 And may I ask the attorney if I am 17 missing anything important that we need to 18 include? 19 MS. KUDLA: No, you haven't missed 20 anything that's needed. 21 MEMBER SHROYER: Thank you. 22 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Second. 23 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: So, we do have a 24 motion to approve the sign with the removal
33 1 of the now leasing verbiage through 2 September 30th, 2008, on the table. 3 Are there any comments? Seeing none, 4 Ms. Working, would you please call the roll. 5 MS. WORKING: Member Shroyer? 6 MEMBER SHROYER: Yes. 7 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 8 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 9 MS. WORKING: Chairman Fischer? 10 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye. 11 MS. WORKING: Member Ibe? 12 MEMBER IBE: Present. 13 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer? 14 MEMBER BAUER: No. 15 MS. WORKING: Member Wrobel? 16 MEMBER WROBEL: Yes. 17 MS. WORKING: Point of clarification. 18 Member Ibe, that was a yes to approve? 19 MEMBER IBE: If you interpret it that 20 way, yes. (Unintelligible). You can take it 21 for a yes. 22 MS. WORKING: Thank you. 23 Motion to approve the temporary sign 24 passes 5-1.
34 1 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: You have through 2 September 30th. Best of luck to you guys. 3 MR. LOCRICCHIO: Thank you very much. 4 We appreciate it. 5 6 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Go ahead and 7 move to case number four on the agenda which 8 is case number: 08-004 filed by Michael 9 Eldon of Premier Finish for 40390 Guilford 10 Road. 11 Is the Petitioner here? 12 MR. ELDON: Yes. 13 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: If you could 14 step up to the podium. The Petitioner is 15 requesting a 3.1 foot rear yard setback 16 variance and one percent total lot coverage 17 variance for the construction of a 252 18 square foot proposed addition to an existing 19 home located at said address. 20 The property is zoned R-1 and is 21 located east of Meadowbrook Road and south 22 of 10 Mile Road. 23 If you can -- are you an attorney, 24 sir?
35 1 MR. ELDON: No. If you can raise your 2 hand and be sworn in by our Vice-Chair. 3 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Do you 4 swear or affirm to tell truth in case 5 number: 08-004? 6 MR. ELDON: I do. 7 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: If you can go 8 ahead and state your name and address and 9 proceed. 10 MR. ELDON: My name is Michael Douglas 11 Eldon, 5855 Wyndham (ph) Lane, that's in 12 Brighton, Michigan, 48116. 13 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Go ahead and 14 proceed with your case. 15 MR. ELDON: Currently the rear 16 projection of the home it is on a slab was 17 originally designed as a family room. And 18 the homeowners are currently using it as a 19 dining room because of the size of the house 20 and they like to entertain, so they wanted 21 to extend that same extension to the rear to 22 gain a new family room so they would have 23 equal or -- excuse me, family and a dining 24 room. And the projection we were proposing
36 1 is 12 feet. It extends beyond the existing 2 build or the existing extension. 3 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Do you have a 4 plan of the drawing? 5 MR. ELDON: I have a plan, yes. 6 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Could you put it 7 up on the overhead for us as well? It 8 magically turns on. 9 MEMBER SHROYER: Would it be easier to 10 use one of our copies? 11 MR. ELDON: Well, the plot plan you 12 have got. Is that okay? 13 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Yes. 14 MR. ELDON: I got one of those. If 15 it's just a plot plan, yeah, I'm sorry. 16 MEMBER SHROYER: It's just so the 17 audience at home and here can see what
18 everybody is talking about. 19 MR. ELDON: Sorry. That's the 20 existing. The proposed is the shaded area 21 above. That's the extension. 22 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I appreciate 23 that. Any other comments, sir? 24 MR. ELDON: No, no.
37 1 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: All right. At 2 this time I will let the Board know that in 3 this case there were 42 notices mailed with 4 zero approvals and zero objections. 5 Is there anyone in the audience that 6 wishes to make a comment on this case? 7 Seeing none, I'll turn it over to the City. 8 MR. FOX: Just through the Chair for 9 clarification. The proposed addition is 10 encroaching in the rear yard setback 11 obviously 3.1 feet as stated in the variance 12 request. It does not encroach in either one 13 of the side yard setbacks. It should not 14 affect any of the overall drainage patterns 15 based on my research on that. 16 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Just a point of 17 information too. I notice that this is 18 Fairfield Farms Subdivision. Is this 19 Village Oaks? 20 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: It's an old 21 name. 22 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Is it the old 23 name? Okay. Any other comments from the 24 City? Seeing none, I'll turn it over to the
38 1 Board for discussion. 2 Member Sanghvi? 3 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: This is a 4 very minimal request and really not likely 5 to affect anything in the neighborhood and I 6 have no problem in supporting his request. 7 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you, 8 Member Sanghvi. 9 Member Shroyer? 10 MEMBER SHROYER: With no objections 11 from any of the neighbors I have no 12 objections to the request as proposed. 13 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Member Bauer? 14 MEMBER BAUER: I have no objections to 15 it. It's minimal what he is asking for. 16 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you, 17 Member Bauer. 18 Member Wrobel? 19 MEMBER WROBEL: I have no objections 20 either as long as the addition is in keeping 21 with the looks of the rest of the home. 22 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I think we can 23 go ahead and make that as part of the 24 motion. I would recommend that.
39 1 Does anyone care to make any other 2 comments or make a motion? 3 Member Sanghvi? 4 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, I'll 5 make a motion. In case number: 08-044 6 filed by Michael Eldon that we grant the 7 request of the Applicant for the minimal 8 variance he needs for the purposes that he 9 stated in his application with the provision 10 that architectural integrity of the entire 11 household in the neighborhood would be 12 maintained through the new addition. 13 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 14 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Did you want to 15 put anything about keeping the facade within 16 the context of what's currently there or did 17 you already say that? 18 MEMBER BAUER: It's covered. 19 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. 20 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: It's my first 21 month back in this chair. I forget these 22 things, Member Sanghvi, so please forgive 23 me. 24 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Onward.
40 1 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: There is a 2 motion and second on the table. Are there 3 any other comments? 4 Seeing one, Ms. Working, would you 5 please call the roll. 6 MS. WORKING: Would you verify who 7 seconded, please? 8 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Member Bauer. 9 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer. Thank 10 you. 11 Member Sanghvi? 12 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 13 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer? 14 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 15 MS. WORKING: Member Ibe? 16 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 17 MS. WORKING: Chairman Fischer? 18 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye. 19 MS. WORKING: Member Shroyer? 20 MEMBER SHROYER: Yes. 21 MS. WORKING: Member Wrobel? 22 MEMBER WROBEL: Yes. 23 MS. WORKING: Motion to grant the 24 request passes 6-0.
41 1 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Your request has 2 been granted. Thank you and good luck. 3 4 At this point I would like to 5 call case number: 08-005 filed by Haley Law 6 Firm, PLC, for AT&T for 42400 Arena Drive. 7 Is the Applicant present? If you can 8 come up to the podium. The Applicant is 9 requesting a variance from the requirement 10 of a face brick exterior shelter building on 11 all sides with gable roof for two proposed 12 wireless outdoor equipment cabinets to be 13 located at said address. 14 The property is zoned I-1 and is 15 located east of Novi Road and south of Ten 16 Mile. 17 Are you an attorney? 18 MR. HALEY: Yes, I am. 19 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: You are? All 20 right. 21 MEMBER WROBEL: Mr. Chair? 22 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Mr. Wrobel? 23 MEMBER WROBEL: I currently work for 24 AT&T as a manager. I'm not involved with
42 1 this project directly. After consulting 2 with the City Attorney I will leave it up to 3 you gentleman whether I should hear this 4 case or not. 5 MEMBER BAUER: I have no problem with 6 it. 7 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I have no 8 problem. 9 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Can you act 10 impartially? 11 MEMBER WROBEL: I can act impartially. 12 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I'm fine with 13 keeping him on the Board. 14 MEMBER WROBEL: Thank you. 15 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Why don't you go 16 ahead and raise -- you don't have to be 17 sworn in, so why don't you go ahead and 18 proceed with your case. 19 MR. HALEY: Thank you. Good evening, 20 this is the monopole tower behind the ice 21 arena which is currently I believe five 22 carriers on the location. 23 The only existing shelter there is the 24 Nextel shelter. There is some pictures in
43 1 the submittal that show the Nextel shelter 2 in the property in relation to the fencing, 3 the landscaping. This is not a new 4 installation. AT&T came before the city to 5 add equipment cabinets that were in the 6 original approval. It was approved for 7 twelve outdoor cabinets on the grid on a 8 steel platform. 9 Historically Tim Schmidt had 10 interpreted back when he was here the 11 ordinances that said that if you do a 12 shelter it's got to be this way. It was 13 never actually a requirement. Planning 14 Department is now interpreting it's 15 requiring a shelter, there may be some kind 16 of changes, so we're asking for a variance 17 for that because we're adding two cabinets 18 to the existing outdoor platform. We're not 19 expending the platform. 20 You granted a variance to Metro PCS, 21 four out of the five carriers that are there 22 had outdoor cabinets. Obviously it's very 23 remote. I have an areal, if you would like 24 to me to show that of how it sits in
44 1 relation to the other properties. 2 And actually, the landscaping which 3 has been placed around there originally has 4 matured and it provides a very effective 5 screening for any of the properties 6 surrounding it. That picture is included in 7 your packet. 8 I'll give you an example. The most 9 visible thing on the property is really the 10 shelter. It sits up higher. That shows it 11 very clearly. But over here is the shelter 12 and the cabinets are actually hidden back 13 behind all these trees. So if the purpose 14 of the ordinance was for aesthetics, the 15 trees already do that. And the fact that 16 it's already existing installation, it would 17 be unnecessarily burdensome to require them 18 to somehow take the site down. They would 19 have to remove the existing grid. Remove 20 all their cabinets. Come into the building 21 property and put a shelter in, take the side 22 off there. I don't think that was 23 necessarily the purpose of the ordinance 24 when this was originally approved. Thank
45 1 you. 2 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you, sir. 3 I will let the Board Members know that 4 in this case there were 18 notices mailed 5 with zero approvals and zero objections. 6 Is there anyone in the audience that 7 wishes to make a comment only this case? 8 Seeing none, is there anyone from the City 9 that wishes to comment? 10 I don't have any direct comment, but 11 we do have a member of the Planning 12 Department here if you have any questions 13 for them. 14 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Okay. At this 15 point I'll open it up to the Board. 16 Member Wrobel? 17 MEMBER WROBEL: What type of equipment 18 is going to be in these cabinets? Are these 19 light span units? 20 MR. HALEY: They are UMTS cabinets. 21 MEMBER WROBEL: And the height of the 22 cabinets?
23 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Mr. Wrobel, can 24 you maybe clarify for the rest of the Board
46 1 Members what -- 2 MEMBER WROBEL: Light span is fiber 3 optic equipment which they generally use to 4 service outside equipment. 5 MR. HALEY: These are part of what 6 they call the UMTS upgrade project. What it 7 really is is to provide better data 8 capability to the surrounding area, not just 9 voice. You got voice through most of the 10 system. This is designed to very much 11 enhance the data flow and to service the 12 township residents and the people in that 13 area. 14 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you for 15 that clarification. Sorry to interrupt. 16 MEMBER WROBEL: The height of the 17 cabinets? 18 MR. HALEY: They are very consistent 19 with the others. Five feet to six feet. 20 MEMBER WROBEL: Looking at the 21 pictures do we know how tall right now the 22 landscaping around there is? Is it 23 sufficiently -- it's kind of hard to tell 24 from that picture.
47 1 MR. HALEY: Let me pass around a 2 picture that you can see. The Nextel 3 shelter I would guess is probably 10 feet at 4 the peak. 5 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: If you could 6 repeat that comment into the microphone for 7 us. 8 MR. HALEY: I would estimate that the 9 Nextel shelter is probably at least 10 to 12 10 feet at the peak and the trees are pretty 11 much 10 to 11 feet. 12 MEMBER WROBEL: This is a typical set 13 up. I have seen a lot of this. I have no 14 problems with this personally. Thank you. 15 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Member 16 Sanghvi? 17 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: If Mr. 18 Wrobel who knows all the technicality has no 19 problem, I have no problem either. 20 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I would tend to 21 agree that given the landscaping around the 22 site, just basically going ahead and taking 23 care of the intent of the ordinance I don't 24 think as the Petitioner stated the intent
48 1 was to cause this type of undue burden on 2 the Petitioner when the landscaping will 3 take care of the intent. So I am inclined 4 to support as well. 5 Member Shroyer? 6 MEMBER SHROYER: Thank you. If 7 anybody did read the minutes from March 7th, 8 you will notice that I was quite involved 9 with this case and ended up supporting 10 something prior to, so I don't have an issue 11 with that. 12 But I would like to ask the attorney 13 if she had an opportunity to review the 14 letter from Novi Ten Associates? 15 MS. KUDLA: We did. 16 MEMBER SHROYER: Is there anything 17 there that we need to be cognizant about in 18 making a motion or in reviewing this case 19 regarding this? 20 MS. KUDLA: No. We reviewed the 21 restrictions. We reviewed the ownership of 22 the property which is in the city. I have 23 gotten information that the lessor had 24 approved the Applicant's (unintelligible)
49 1 proposal. So, no, there is nothing left I 2 don't believe to add. 3 MEMBER SHROYER: I just wanted to make 4 sure. With that I have no problem with this 5 as well. Thank you, Mr. Chair. 6 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you, 7 Member Shroyer. 8 Any other Board Members? Sir, if you 9 want the picture back. Thank you for that. 10 The Board is working very hard 11 thinking today. I am very impressed with 12 you guys. 13 MEMBER SHROYER: You guys want to make 14 me ad lib another one? 15 MEMBER WROBEL: You've got experience. 16 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: It's a 17 compliment, Member Shroyer. I will give you 18 the floor. 19 MEMBER SHROYER: Thank you. In case 20 number 08-005 filed by Haley Law Firm, PLC, 21 for AT&T at 42400 Arena Drive, I move that 22 we approve the request for the variance as 23 submitted given the facts that were 24 presented at this evening's case. That the
50 1 heights and sizes of the proposed units do 2 not exceed anything that's currently 3 existing there. That is a correct 4 statement, I believe. And that the units 5 are adequately shielded by the evergreens 6 that surround the activity thus causing no 7 aesthetic imperfections. 8 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: And that's 9 within the intent of the ordinance? 10 MEMBER SHROYER: Yes, it is. 11 MEMBER BAUER: Second it. 12 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: There is a 13 motion and a second on the table. Are there 14 any other comments? Seeing none, Ms. 15 Working, would you please call the roll. 16 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer seconded? 17 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Yes, ma'am. 18 MS. WORKING: Member Shroyer? 19 MEMBER SHROYER: Yes. 20 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer? 21 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 22 MS. WORKING: Member Wrobel? 23 MEMBER WROBEL: Yes. 24 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi?
51 1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 2 MS. WORKING: Member Ibe? 3 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 4 MS. WORKING: Chairman Fischer? 5 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye. 6 MS. WORKING: Motion to approve passes 7 6-0. 8 MR. HALEY: Thank you very much. 9 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: You have been 10 approved. Best of luck. 11 12 At this time we'll call case number: 13 08-006 filed by David Giltner of Signature 14 Associates for 41280 Bridge Street. Is the 15 Petitioner here today? Come up to the 16 podium for us. 17 The Petitioner is requesting one 32 18 square foot sign area variance for the 19 placement of a 48 square foot real estate 20 leasing sign to be placed on said property. 21 The property is currently zoned I-1 and is 22 located east of Meadowbrook Road and south 23 of I-96. 24 Are you an attorney, sir?
52 1 MR. GILTNER: No, I'm not. 2 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: If you can raise 3 your hand and be sworn in by our Vice-Chair. 4 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Do you 5 swear or affirm that you will tell the truth 6 in case number: 08-006? 7 MR. GILTNER: I'm sorry, what was the 8 question? 9 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Do you swear to 10 tell the truth in this case? 11 MR. GILTNER: I do. 12 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 13 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Please go ahead 14 and state your name and address and proceed. 15 MR. GILTNER: David Giltner, 41290 16 Wolfe Pass, Novi, Michigan, 48377. I am 17 here regarding signage on behalf my firm, 18 Signature Associates, for a property at 19 41280 Bridge Street which is in the 20 Meadowbrook Corporate Park at Meadowbrook 21 Road and I-96. 22 The facility commonly referred to as 23 the M Cat facility. And the reason for the 24 Zoning Board of appeals here is the property
53 1 is, the park itself is very infrequently 2 traffic with the exception of the people 3 that are in the park itself. This 4 particular facility happens to be a 5 destination. It's really almost impossible 6 to drive by this facility without being lost 7 or traveling straight to this particular 8 building. The property is visible to the 9 ramp at I-275 and I-96 and my request is to 10 put signage that is actually visible to the 11 freeway. 12 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you, sir. 13 Is there anyone -- I will let the Board know 14 at this time there were 16 notices mailed 15 with zero approvals and zero objections. 16 Is there anyone in the audience that 17 wishes to make a comment on this case? 18 Seeing none, I'll turn it over to the city 19 for any comments? 20 MR. AMOLSCH: No comment. 21 MS. KUDLA: No. 22 MR. FOX: No comment. 23 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Board Members? 24 Member Ibe?
54 1 MEMBER IBE: Thank you. Sir, do you 2 have any sign currently on this property? 3 MR. GILTNER: Yes. 4 MEMBER IBE: What is the size of the 5 sign that you have there? 6 MR. GILTNER: Sixteen square feet. 7 MEMBER IBE: What is the need for the 8 variance here that you are requesting? 9 MR. GILTNER: The building is, again, 10 only visible to the freeway and is several 11 hundred feet from the freeway. The green 12 built outside the front door of the building 13 is probably only about 15 feet. There is a 14 large paved area between the green belt and 15 the freeway and the sign is not currently 16 visible. 17 MEMBER IBE: Is this, what other -- 18 strike that. What other measures of 19 marketing are you using other than this 20 signage? 21 MR. GILTNER: Could you clarify the 22 question, please? 23 MEMBER IBE: Is there any other 24 marketing tool that you are using other than
55 1 the sign that you have out? 2 MR. GILTNER: Yes, we have a catalog 3 to build the property that we sent out. We 4 use our web base marketing. My e-mail 5 marketing facility. I have been working in 6 the community for 14 years so we do have 7 other means that utilize the market. 8 However, with respect to this particular 9 building, this building's exposure to the 10 freeway, I feel any other marketing other 11 than the signage would be a detriment to 12 this particular building given its proximity 13 to this freeway. 14 MEMBER IBE: In terms of occupancy of 15 this particular space what do you have right 16 now in its place? 17 MR. GILTNER: M Cat does currently 18 occupy the building and I believe they are 19 out within the next two or three weeks. 20 MEMBER IBE: Are they the only party
21 in that space? 22 MR. GILTNER: Yes, it's a freestanding 23 building. 24 MEMBER IBE: You don't have any
56 1 potential parties right now that are 2 interested in this place? 3 MR. GILTNER: I have shown the 4 property and there is nominal interest right 5 now. 6 MEMBER IBE: Now, the party that 7 showed interest, how did they find out about 8 this particular place? 9 MR. GILTNER: I'm they're exclusive 10 buyer's representative and so given my 11 knowledge of the building and my knowledge 12 of the buyer's needs that's how we came to 13 that. 14 MEMBER IBE: Also, this is my final 15 question, sir. Assuming that you get 16 someone to buy this property, is this 17 supposed to be a permanent sign or is this 18 going to come down? 19 MR. GILTNER: It will come down. 20 Ideally I would lease the building in the 21 next 60 days and take the sign down 22 immediately after we got a deal. 23 MEMBER IBE: Very good. Thank you. 24 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you,
57 1 Member Ibe. 2 If could you take a minute and go 3 ahead and put the sign up on the overhead 4 for us too. 5 MR. GILTNER: I'm without visual aid. 6 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: That's fine. If 7 one of our Board Members could. 8 Member Wrobel, comments from you? 9 MEMBER WROBEL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 10 Is this sign going to be on the building or 11 is it going to be freestanding? 12 MR. GILTNER: It will not be on the 13 building. It will be on the property 14 freestanding. 15 MEMBER WROBEL: How close to the 16 building or is it going to be right on the 17 lot line where it comes along the I-275 18 ramp? 19 MR. GILTNER: You know, I am really 20 not qualified to be able to answer that. 21 That's probably a question for our marketing 22 director or our sign people. My best guess 23 is that it will be on the property line 24 closer to the freeway.
58 1 MEMBER WROBEL: Mr. Amolsch, what was 2 the size of the sign that we recently 3 approved for Novi Expo Center do you recall 4 that? 5 MR. AMOLSCH: We can find out. 6 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Sixty-eight 7 square feet. 8 MEMBER WROBEL: So this one is 9 substantially smaller, a smaller building? 10 MEMBER SHROYER: It was on the 11 building, though. 12 MEMBER BAUER: It was on the building. 13 It was smaller than this. 14 MEMBER WROBEL: I have no issue with 15 this sign if it is placed for a specified 16 period of time. I know what the market is 17 like right now, it's bad. But I don't want 18 it sitting, God forbid you don't lease the 19 building, I hate to see it sitting there for 20 five years also. It's something that needs 21 to be addressed from time to time. 22 So, I can support it with that 23 stipulation. Thank you. 24 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Any suggestion
59 1 to the Board of a time frame you would be 2 willing to accept, Member Wrobel? 3 MEMBER WROBEL: I could say two years 4 or less. 5 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you. 6 Member Shroyer? 7 MEMBER SHROYER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 8 A couple of questions. The first one if I 9 remember correctly there is no signage off 10 Bridge Street; is that correct? 11 MR. GILTNER: Correct. 12 MEMBER SHROYER: So, this would be the 13 only signage that you would have for that 14 building which was mentioned earlier? 15 MR. GILTNER: Correct. 16 MEMBER SHROYER: Why was the notice of 17 violation or citation issued? 18 MR. GILTNER: I believe there was a 19 sign predating. I'm new to the assignment, 20 I believe there was a sign on Meadowbrook 21 Road that the city had us remove. 22 MEMBER SHROYER: Do you know, Mr. 23 Amolsch? 24 MR. AMOLSCH: That's correct. They
60 1 had a sign on Meadowbrook Road and they had 2 a wall sign on the building also which we do 3 not allow. 4 MEMBER SHROYER: Okay. And that's 5 been removed now? 6 MR. AMOLSCH: Yes. 7 MEMBER SHROYER: Normally when the 8 application is filled out and it says the 9 appeal is based on the following grounds and 10 it states, require larger sign, we look for 11 a little more information than that when we 12 are trying to do this. 13 I don't have a problem either with 14 granting temporary. I don't have a problem 15 with the size of the sign being off the 16 interstate. I would like to see the 17 verbiage added to whoever makes the motion 18 that whatever the given time frame is or to 19 be removed within 30 days after the property 20 is leased or some other date, time frame, 21 but I don't want to see it become an 22 advertising sign as opposed to a for rent 23 type sign. 24 That's all I have, Mr. Chair.
61 1 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you, 2 Member Shroyer. 3 Anything from the other Board Members? 4 MEMBER SANGHVI: I have no problem 5 supporting this application for a period of
6 two years. And if I may I will go ahead and 7 make a motion that in case number: 08-006 8 filed by David Giltner of Signature 9 Association, 41280 Bridge Street, that we 10 grant the Petitioner's request for the 11 building sign for a period of two years with 12 the understanding that the sign will come 13 down when the property is leased. Thank 14 you. 15 MEMBER WROBEL: Second. 16 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Might want we 17 add some finding of facts such as the unique 18 layout of the property and the high speeds 19 of the traffic? 20 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: It is 21 uniquely out of the commercial property. 22 The location is difficult to advertise and 23 the hardship is appreciated. 24 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you, sir.
62 1 Any other comments? There is a motion 2 and a second from Member Wrobel. 3 No other comments, Ms. Working, would 4 you please call the roll. 5 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 6 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 7 MS. WORKING: Member Wrobel? 8 MEMBER WROBEL: Yes. 9 MS. WORKING: Member Shroyer? 10 MEMBER SHROYER: Yes. 11 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer? 12 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 13 MS. WORKING: Chairman Fischer? 14 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye. 15 MS. WORKING: Member Ibe? 16 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 17 MS. WORKING: Motion passes 6-0. 18 MR. GILTNER: Thank you. 19 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you. Best 20 of luck. Hopefully it will get leased and 21 it will be down in a month. 22 MR. GILTNER: I hope so. 23 24 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: At this time
63 1 I'll swing back to the first case on the 2 agenda regarding Paradise Park. Is the 3 Petitioner here today? Seeing, no, were you 4 here to comment on a certain case? I still 5 see some people in the audience. Just 6 visiting? 7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Just observing. 8 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Perfect. I just 9 wanted to make sure that if there were 10 people in the audience who wanted to comment 11 on that case I was trying to see if the 12 attorney would allow that. But you are just 13 observing? Welcome to the Zoning Board of 14 Appeals. Seeing no other cases 15 before the Board, we'll move to the other 16 matters. 17 Ms. Working? 18 MS. WORKING: Members of the Board, at 19 this time I would like to present the 20 community development director, Mr. -- oh, 21 he's gone. I apologize. It was with great 22 pleasure that I would like to introduce to 23 you our new building official, Charles 24 Boulard.
64 1 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you, Ms. 2 Working. I had the opportunity -- if you 3 want to come to the podium. I had the 4 opportunity to meet Charles before the 5 meeting and had a brief little session. I 6 don't remember all of the wonderful things 7 Mr. Rumple said other than the fact that he 8 does have a master's from Michigan which 9 upset me a little bit. 10 (Interposing)(Unintelligible). 11 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Exactly. But I 12 did hear a lot of great things and if Mr. 13 Rumple would like to reintroduce. My 14 introduction was pretty bad. 15 MR. RUMPLE: Timing is everything. I 16 apologize for that. Thank you, Mr. Chair. 17 Members of the Board, I would like to 18 take the opportunity to do what I think has 19 been done and that is introduce our new 20 building official, Mr. Charles Boulard. 21 22 Before I do that, as you know the 23 Community Development Department has been 24 going through some changes over the last
65 1 year and a half. I have been on board ten 2 months now and as you know we have recently 3 gone through a change over in building 4 officials. We in the Community Development 5 Department, Planning, Building, Ordinance 6 Enforcement, we support several boards and 7 commissions, the Zoning Board of Appeals is 8 just one of them. Charles is going to be 9 assigned managerial oversight of the Zoning 10 Board of Appeals and will be attending these 11 meetings on a regular basis. 12 Charles comes to us from the city of 13 Ypsilanti. He was a building official. He 14 was there for approximately six years. 15 Prior to that he worked as a planned 16 reviewer for the City of Ann Arbor for 17 approximately five years. Prior to that he 18 was a licensed architect in private 19 practice. He comes to use with nearly 20 20 years of experience. He has a master's 21 degree from the University of Michigan. 22 Although I promised ahead of time we weren't 23 going to hold that against him. He has got 24 a master's degree from the University of
66 1 Michigan in architecture. 2 He comes highly qualified and highly 3 experienced. And we are very excited to 4 have him as part of our team and just 5 thought we would take a few minutes to 6 introduce him tonight. There will be 7 opportunities for us to speak more. I did 8 get a chance to meet with the chair before 9 tonight's meeting and this was all in the 10 effort of offering continued support to this 11 Board as we move forward with the changes in 12 the department and anything we can do, you 13 know where to find us and we appreciate 14 (unintelligible). 15 Without further ado here is Charles. 16 MR. BOULARD: Thank you. I haven't 17 had a chance to be introduced today 18 everyone, I am looking forward to it. I 19 will keep things very brief. I obviously 20 won't make any overtures about Michigan 21 State, especially with the state of the 22 basketball team. 23 But if there is anything that I or any 24 of us can do, please let us know. We're
67 1 here to support. Thank you. 2 MEMBER BAUER: Welcome aboard. 3 MR. BOULARD: Thank you. 4 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Your background 5 sounds very extensive. It sounds like you 6 have a wealth of knowledge and a resource 7 that I look forward to tapping into. So on 8 behalf of the Board welcome aboard. It's a 9 great fresh face to see. 10 Moving along. Ms. Working, again. 11 MS. WORKING: Members of the Board, 12 last meeting you had a discussion about the 13 proposed rules of procedure document that 14 has yet to be adopted as amended. You made 15 a request to book a meeting to be able to 16 further discuss this document. That request 17 has been honored. You will be meeting on 18 March 25th in the Mayor's conference room. 19 It will be a public meeting. It will be a 20 public meeting and I don't know if the Chair 21 would like to add to that in any way. 22 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I believe, Ms. 23 Working, we wrote everybody and asked for a 24 date we could all attend and that seems to
68 1 be the only one I think that fit. So, I 2 look forward to going through the rules and 3 scrubbing them down with everybody. Is 4 there a time that we're planning on meeting? 5 MS. WORKING: 7 p.m. 6 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: 7 p.m., okay. Is 7 there any questions regarding that? 8 MEMBER BAUER: (Unintelligible). 9 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Of course I will 10 be honored to bring dinner for you guys. 11 We do still have one case before us. 12 Can we go ahead and look at postponing that 13 case? 14 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 15 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Oftentimes when 16 a Petitioner doesn't show I would be in 17 favor of possible denial, but given the fact 18 that we did switch from our normal Tuesday 19 schedule I would be inclined to postpone. 20 So is there a motion on the table? 21 (Interposing)(Unintelligible). 22 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Member Shroyer? 23 MEMBER SHROYER: May I ask, however, 24 has there been any movement with City
69 1 Council on that? 2 MS. WORKING: Through the Chair. 3 Members of the Board, in your file for this 4 evening there is a copy of the Planning 5 Commission's agenda for this Wednesday. The 6 sign ordinance amendment would be presented 7 to the Planning Commission who at that time 8 will make a decision whether to move it 9 forward for a public hearing. That would be 10 a few weeks ahead yet. 11 Once the Planning Commission looks at 12 it and moves on to the City Council it would 13 have two readings and hopefully be approved 14 from there. So, we're not looking at before 15 the April 8th meeting of having a decision 16 yet which is your next Zoning Board meeting. 17 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: From what I 18 understand there hasn't been much action on 19 it quite yet, but I think we'll have a 20 better indication at the next meeting so 21 this actually works out. I hope we will have 22 someone from the Building Department that 23 can speak to what's going on with it at that 24 time.
70 1 MEMBER SHROYER: The reason I was 2 asking, Mr. Chair, is that perhaps we may 3 want to look at postponing it to the May 4 meeting since he wasn't here this evening to 5 give us any feedback and we are anticipating 6 action to be taken in the next six weeks, 7 perhaps we ought to postpone it to the May 8 meeting. 9 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I would say 10 let's postpone until April at this time 11 frame, but given these comments -- I'm 12 sorry, yes, April at this point, and then 13 working with the Petitioner and Robin they 14 can figure out if May would be more 15 acceptable. But at the same time I don't 16 want to pigeon hole the Petitioner into 17 going into May either. So, is that 18 acceptable to you, Mr. Shroyer? 19 MEMBER SHROYER: Yes. 20 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: There is a 21 motion and a second to postpone case number: 22 07-094 at this time to the April meeting 23 with the option. 24 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: So moved.
71 1 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 2 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Can you please 3 call the roll, Ms. Working. 4 MS. WORKING: The motion maker, 5 please? 6 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Member Sanghvi 7 made the motion originally and Member Bauer 8 seconded originally. 9 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 10 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 11 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer? 12 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 13 MS. WORKING: Member Wrobel? 14 MEMBER WROBEL: Yes. 15 MS. WORKING: Member Shroyer? 16 MEMBER SHROYER: Yes. 17 MS. WORKING: Chairman Fischer? 18 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye. 19 MS. WORKING: Member Ibe? 20 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 21 MS. WORKING: Motion to postpone 22 passes 6-0. 23 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: See no other 24 business before the Zoning Board I will
72 1 entertain a motion to adjourn. 2 VICE-CHAIRPERSON: So moved. 3 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: All in favor say 4 aye? 5 BOARD MEMBERS Aye. 6 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: We're adjourned. 7 (The proceeding was concluded 8 at 8:09 p.m.) 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
73 C E R T I F I C A T E
I, Mona L. Talton, do hereby certify that I have recorded stenographically the proceedings had and testimony taken in the above-entitled matter at the time and place hereinbefore set forth, and I do further certify that the foregoing transcript, consisting of (61) typewritten pages, is a true and correct transcript of my said stenographic notes.
_____________________________ Mona L. Talton, Certified Shorthand Reporter March 14, 2008
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