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MEETING - ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Proceedings had and testimony taken in the matters of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten 10 Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, Tuesday, April 11 14, 2009. BOARD MEMBERS ALSO PRESENT: REPORTED BY: 1 Novi, Michigan 2 Tuesday, April 14, 2009 3 7:00 p.m. 4 - - - - - - 5 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Good evening. 6 The clock is about to say 7:00 p.m. And I 7 would like to call to order the April 14, 8 2009 meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals 9 for the City of Novi. 10 Mr. Cassis, would you kindly lead us 11 in the pledge of allegiance. 12 MEMBER CASSIS: Thank you, Mr. 13 Chairman. 14 BOARD MEMBERS: I pledge allegiance to 15 the flag of the United States of America and 16 to the Republic for which it stands, one 17 nation under God indivisible with liberty 18 and justice for all. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 20 Mr. Boulard, will you please call the 21 roll. 22 MR. BOULARD: Certainly. Member 23 Bauer? 24 MEMBER BAUER: Present.
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1 MR. BOULARD: Chairman Sanghvi? 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Here. 3 MR. BOULARD: Member Wrobel? 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: He is absent and 5 excused. 6 MR. BOULARD: Member Skelcy? 7 MEMBER SKELCY: Here. 8 MR. BOULARD: Member Ghannam? 9 MEMBER GHANNAM: Here. 10 MR. BOULARD: Member Krieger? 11 MEMBER KRIEGER: Here. 12 MR. BOULARD: Member Ibe? 13 MEMBER IBE: Present. 14 MR. BOULARD: Member Cassis? 15 MEMBER CASSIS: Here. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: So, we do have a 17 quorum and the meeting is now in session. I 18 am not going go over the rules of conduct 19 because they are already printed in your 20 agenda and there is no use of repeating all 21 this. But just a friendly reminder to 22 please turn off your cell phones and pagers. 23 Today we have a full quorum and so all 24 the decisions taken will be final.
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1 Are there any changes in the agenda or 2 is the agenda as presented? 3 MEMBER CASSIS: Move to approve. 4 MR. BOULARD: Mr. Chairman, the 5 Petitioner for case number 4 on your agenda, 6 case number: 09-017 for 47601 Grand River 7 Avenue has requested to be located on the 8 agenda just before the last case number 7. 9 09-015 is there for the same property. 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All right. 11 Anything else? Can I have a motion to -- 12 MEMBER BAUER: So moved. 13 MEMBER CASSIS: Second. 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: The motion has 15 been made and moved. All those in favor 16 please signify by saying aye? 17 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 18 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All those 19 opposed same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. We 22 also do have some minutes here. And does 23 anybody have any corrections, alterations, 24 deletions to the minutes? If not we can --
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1 the minutes are for the meeting of March 17, 2 2009. 3 MR. BOULARD: Mr. Chair, I have a 4 couple of corrections I believe of other 5 Board Members' comments. On page 16, line 6 13, I believe Member Ghannam meant to say 7 obtrusive as opposed to obtruding. 8 MEMBER GHANNAM: What line? 9 MR. BOULARD: 13. 10 MEMBER GHANNAM: Right. 11 MR. BOULARD: Page 17, line 3, my 12 statement was, or my question is: Is the 13 amendment accepted? 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. 15 MR. BOULARD: And the last proposed 16 correction would be page 71, line 2. I 17 believe Member Ibe said: I think we should 18 be on our way to recovery from this 19 recession. 20 MEMBER IBE: Correct. 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Anything else? 22 Anybody notice anything? If not, can we 23 entertain a motion to accept the minutes as 24 corrected?
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1 MEMBER BAUER: Move to accept the 2 minutes with the corrections. 3 MEMBER CASSIS: Second. 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Motion has been 5 made and seconded. 6 All those in favor signify by 7 saying aye? 8 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Those opposed 10 same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. The 13 minutes are in place. 14 This is the time for the public 15 remarks section. Is there anybody in the 16 audience who would like to address the Board 17 regarding any item other than what is on the 18 agenda tonight? 19 (No response.) 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing none, we 21 will close the public remarks section and 22 we'll go on to first case on the agenda. 23 All right. And that is Case Number: 24 08-061 Robert Slack of Ace Family Hardware
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1 for 22104 Novi Road Ace Family Hardware. Is 2 the Applicant here? 3 MR. SLACK: Yes. 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Will you please 5 come over here. Identify yourself with your 6 name and address and if you are not an 7 attorney please be sworn in by our 8 Secretary. 9 MR. SLACK: I am not an attorney. My 10 name is Robert Slack. My residence is 1320 11 Stephanie Drive, Milford, Michigan. We are 12 the owners and leasing space at 22104 Novi 13 Road. 14 MEMBER BAUER: Would you raise your 15 right hand? 16 MR. SLACK: Sure. 17 MEMBER BAUER: Do you swear or affirm 18 to tell the truth regarding Case: 08-061? 19 MR. SLACK: I do. 20 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, go ahead. 22 MR. SLACK: Well, this was a 23 continuation of a prior case. This was 24 tabled. So, I don't know if I should start
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1 at the beginning or just -- when we tabled 2 it we were left with making sure that CVS 3 gave us consent to place the propane tanks 4 in front of the building, which I did get 5 the letter and I did deliver 14 copies of 6 the letter to the Zoning people in the 7 Building Department, and that was in 8 December. I don't know the date exactly, 9 but I do have a copy of it with me. 10 But the copies were submitted to the 11 Zoning people at the Building Department. 12 Beyond that, I think there was going to be 13 some discussion, not by me, but with the 14 Fire Department people and the Building 15 Department. So, I don't have information on 16 that. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Is 18 there anybody in the audience who would like 19 to make any comment about this case? 20 (No response.) 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing 22 none, Mr. Secretary, do you have any new 23 correspondence? 24 MEMBER BAUER: No. Just the one from
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1 the management of the property. It's the 2 same as what the owner said. 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. Good. 4 Building Department, anything to add? 5 MR. BOULARD: Nothing other than as 6 Mr. Slack indicated, your packet should 7 include a copy of the letter from CVS. 8 Also, there is a copy of an e-mail from Mark 9 Spencer of Planning and Community 10 Development with response to some of the 11 questions about placement around the 12 building. 13 And there is also a letter from Mike 14 Evans, the fire marshal, providing the 15 requested information. And for anyone 16 who do not recall the discussion on December 17 19, there is a copy of those minutes also 18 for your use. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, very good. 20 Thank you. Now I will open it to the Board. 21 Yes, Mr. Cassis? 22 MEMBER CASSIS: I know, Mr. Slack, I 23 know you've indicated that you are going to 24 protect that cage from impact from thieves.
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1 Do you foresee any other dangerous kind of 2 happening that might happen to those 3 cylinders that should be protected in the 4 case? 5 MR. SLACK: Not that I'm aware of. 6 And as far as protecting them, it's sitting 7 back probably I am going to say probably 10 8 to 12 feet inside the sidewalk. So it's 9 already, I would believe, I have not heard 10 anything different, that that would be far 11 enough back to be protected from traffic. 12 So we had no intentions to put poles in that 13 location. 14 MEMBER CASSIS: I'm not talking about 15 that. I am talking about people walking by, 16 somebody throws a match or something. I 17 don't know. I am not too familiar with 18 these kind of cylinders or what have you. 19 Can you educate me a little bit as to the 20 safety? 21 MR. SLACK: I don't know of any. 22 MEMBER CASSIS: Nothing? 23 MR. SLACK: I don't know of anything 24 we had intended to do beyond what's there
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1 unless there is some other suggestions. 2 MEMBER CASSIS: Thank you. 3 MR. SLACK: There has been nothing 4 indicated to us additionally that we might 5 need to do at this point. 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Anybody else? 7 Yes, Mr. Ibe? 8 MEMBER IBE: Just one question. Sir, 9 assuming that we are to grant your variance 10 request, would you be willing to provide 11 some kind of screening to minimize the 12 visual impact that the cylinders will have 13 to the public, you know, people who are 14 driving up to the building so it's just not 15 glaring out there? Is there any kind of 16 screen that you might provide to make it 17 more aesthetically pleasing at least? 18 MR. SLACK: Yeah. And, in fact, we 19 had initially at some point in the past 20 discussed that kind of thing. We had made 21 no plans, definite plans for that, but we 22 would be not opposed to something like that. 23 Were something acceptable suggested, we 24 would be willing to do that, sure.
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1 MEMBER IBE: I have no other comments. 2 Thank you. 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, very good. 4 Yes, Ms. Krieger? 5 MEMBER KRIEGER: Question. On the 6 building if you have the surveillance camera 7 does it also light up that area? 8 MR. SLACK: There is no surveillance 9 camera in front of the building on the 10 exterior. The only place that there is a 11 surveillance camera on the exterior of the 12 building is right near the garage door 13 between the back of the building. It's down 14 at the garage door at the back of the 15 building. That's the only place that there 16 is a surveillance camera on the exterior of 17 the building. 18 MEMBER KRIEGER: That was something I 19 was wondering about for helping with if kids 20 wanted to play around that area. 21 Also, the bollard, I believe that's 22 what they are called, those cement pillars, 23 bollards, that they could also be placed if 24 it was to stay in the front that you could
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1 put some up in the front. And then I notice 2 that the cages are painted white and it 3 blends with the building. So, as long as 4 they were kept up that that would not be as 5 obtrusive. 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 7 Anybody else? As far as I am personally 8 concerned, as far as I am concerned I think 9 we have got the information from the Fire 10 Marshal that went over all the major 11 concerns at the last meeting. And 12 everything seems to be A okay from that 13 perspective. And as far as the screening in 14 front of this is concerned, maybe we should 15 come to some kind of consensus about what 16 kind of screening would be acceptable. 17 Have you any idea, Mr. Boulard, about 18 what kind of screening you suggest? 19 MR. BOULARD: My one question I guess 20 for the Petitioner would be, if there was 21 screening put around the cabinets, it would 22 need to be three plus feet away from it so 23 that you can access the cabinets. Would 24 that then block the sidewalk?
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1 MR. SLACK: If you went three feet? I 2 would have to actually measure that, but it 3 would definitely protrude out into that area 4 definitely, yes. And there is a pillar in 5 that vicinity of the corner, that if you 6 went three feet all the way around it, that 7 pillar that holds up the porch I guess you 8 would you call it, would probably come into 9 conflict with the screen that was three feet 10 all the way around it. 11 MR. BOULARD: I guess my initial 12 thought is that having the cabinet painted 13 to match the building and not having 14 advertisement on it would probably be the 15 least obtrusive. But if there was screening 16 I would suggest that we make sure that there 17 is plenty of room for pedestrians to get 18 around it and also it's some kind of 19 noncombustible material. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: A question for 21 the Counsel. Is it okay to make a motion 22 that the nature of the screening to be 23 determined later in the motion? 24 MS. KUDLA: At this point I don't
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1 think that we've had any suggestions from 2 the Planning Department on specific 3 screening, so I think it would probably 4 involve another meeting with the Planning 5 Department to determine what they would 6 think is appropriate. 7 I don't know at that point then if 8 something like that would be acceptable to 9 the Applicant, but I think if we are going 10 to require screening that we need to at 11 least give some sort of notice of what that 12 might be, some types of suggestions types of 13 things so that when the variance is granted 14 that the Applicant is aware of what is being 15 considered by the Board in making their 16 decision. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: That would mean 18 putting it off another month? 19 MS. KUDLA: As far as screening, if we 20 don't have the information at this point we 21 might want to do that. You could ask the 22 Applicant if he has any suggestions on what 23 he might put in that area that would help to 24 screen it.
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1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Do you have any 2 idea about what kind of screening you might 3 put there? 4 MR. SLACK: I had not considered it as 5 far as any specific thing because I didn't 6 realize that was an issue so we hadn't 7 really done a lot of consideration on what 8 type of -- I mean, it would be conceivable. 9 I mean, at one point we even thought of 10 maybe just some plantings, you know. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes? 12 MEMBER GHANNAM: I have got a few 13 questions, sir. The current way that you 14 are storing the tanks right now is as we see 15 in the pictures, is that correct, like you 16 proposed? 17 MR. SLACK: Yes, nothing has changed. 18 MEMBER GHANNAM: Forgetting our last 19 meeting in December '08, that's the way it 20 was back then? 21 MR. SLACK: Yes. 22 MEMBER GHANNAM: And you had nothing 23 on the inside of the building; is that 24 correct? No storage tanks inside?
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1 MR. SLACK: No, no storage tanks. We 2 don't allow even a storage tank to be 3 brought inside for exchange. The actual 4 physical exchange is done outside. The 5 payment is inside. The physical exchange is 6 outside. 7 MEMBER GHANNAM: Then I just have a 8 question for Counsel. In the Fire Marshal's 9 letter he indicated that the current storage 10 amount which I assume is the one that we see 11 in the picture is in compliance with fire 12 prevention codes and so forth. So, 13 apparently according to them it's 14 acceptable. 15 MS. KUDLA: Yeah, the current, yeah, 16 there was a letter indicating and I don't 17 know if the Applicant -- have you had a 18 chance to review the letter? 19 MR. SLACK: I haven't gotten a letter. 20 MS. KUDLA: We can give you a copy of 21 the letter if you want to take a look at it 22 right now. The premise of the letter I 23 believe was that there were some alternate 24 locations proposed at the last meeting and
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1 we didn't know because of some of the 2 locations whether they would cause it to be 3 a dangerous situation and we wanted to look 4 at whether some of those alternates were 5 even plausible before considering any 6 proposed alternatives. 7 So, the letter does go through the 8 Fire Marshal's opinions on some of the other 9 alternatives. It does indicate that the 10 current placement is within the 11 International Fire Code requirements, yes. 12 MEMBER GHANNAM: Okay. Because I know 13 in his letter the Fire Marshal talks about 14 the south side of the building and then I 15 guess it would be the east side behind the 16 building as alternatives. He indicated that 17 the south side would not be practical. On 18 the east side would require additional 19 protection and so forth. 20 Another question about the cages or 21 whatever you call them, they are stored in 22 right now. Are they somehow secured to the 23 premises either to the floor or the building 24 somehow so they can't be removed by anybody?
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1 MR. SLACK: They are not at the 2 present time, they could be. 3 MEMBER GHANNAM: Is that a concern for 4 you or has it ever been a concern to you 5 about someone trying to haul these things 6 away or not? 7 MR. SLACK: No. We have had no 8 concern with it. We've had no issue with 9 it. I wouldn't suppose that we would. They 10 are quite heavy. And the cylinders 11 themselves weigh in access of 25 pounds 12 each. There would be 24 of them in a 13 container, so you are talking several, 14 several hundred pounds. You would probably 15 need a fork truck or something to try to 16 pick that up and take it. 17 They could be anchored, that wouldn't 18 be a problem to do that, but I wouldn't have 19 a concern about someone trying to take the 20 propane. 21 MEMBER GHANNAM: That's fine. 22 Personally I'm in favor of it as you propose 23 now that we have all the information here. 24 I don't know about the screening issue
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1 because that would be kind of hard to define 2 I think at this point. But as long as the 3 Fire Marshal is okay with the way they are 4 secured at this point and there is not a 5 bunch of advertisement over it. It's 6 basically as is as you have pictured it? 7 MR. SLACK: Yes. 8 MEMBER GHANNAM: I think I have no 9 problems with this. This is a typical type 10 of thing that's sold in businesses such as 11 yours. You can't store it inside. It's got 12 to be somewhere, and to me this seems to be 13 the most logical position. 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Cassis? 15 MEMBER CASSIS: Thank you, Mr. 16 Chairman, for giving me another chance 17 here. Just one observation. I live by that 18 store and I have frequented your store. I 19 want to compliment you on your service. And 20 why do I mention service? Because I want to 21 try to alleviate my previous two colleagues' 22 minds about the protection that you and your 23 people will be giving this cage. 24 I have observed your people how they
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1 come out and try to help. And I presume 2 that nothing will happen to those cylinders 3 unless your people are really right there on 4 the spot helping the customer and giving 5 those cylinders out. So, in my mind I would 6 rest easy as far as what you have supplied 7 us here. But that is only my opinion. 8 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Yes, 10 Mr. Bauer? 11 MEMBER BAUER: Did you have any 12 problem with your insurance company? 13 MR. SLACK: No. 14 MEMBER BAUER: Fine. 15 MR. SLACK: In fact, I spoke with our 16 insurance agent prior to even doing anything 17 on this and our current coverage was 18 adequate to cover that. We didn't even need 19 to make an alteration in the policy. 20 MEMBER BAUER: Okay, fine. Thank you. 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 22 Anybody else? Would anybody like to make a 23 motion? 24 MEMBER GHANNAM: I will go ahead and
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1 make a motion, Mr. Chair. 2 MEMBER GHANNAM: Go ahead. 3 MEMBER GHANNAM: In case number: 4 08-061 by Robert Slack of Ace Family 5 Hardware, I move that the Board approve his 6 request for placement of an outdoor propane 7 exchange rack on the west elevation of the 8 building at 22104 Novi Road at the Oakpointe 9 Plaza as depicted in the photographs as it 10 currently exits right now. 11 This is a use variance I believe that 12 the property cannot be reasonably used for 13 the purposes permitted in the existing 14 zoning district. The plight of the owner as 15 you suggested is not -- I'm sorry, is due to 16 unique circumstances peculiar to his 17 property and not the general neighborhood 18 conditions. The use variance will not alter 19 the essential character of the area. The 20 proponent's problem is not self created and 21 as I suggested before, it's a type of 22 product that's typically sold in businesses 23 such as yourself and it's really the only 24 logical place to put it in this case, so I
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1 would move to approve it on that basis. 2 But it also, at any time you have it 3 in that placement or in that position, it's 4 got to comply with existing City Ordinances 5 and Fire Marshal regulations. 6 MEMBER CASSIS: Second. 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: The motion has 8 been made and seconded. Do I hear any 9 further discussion? Seeing none, Mr. 10 Boulard, will you please call the roll? 11 MR. BOULARD: Certainly. Who was the 12 second? 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Mr. Cassis. 14 MR. BOULARD: Thank you. Member 15 Bauer? 16 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 17 MR. BOULARD: Member Cassis? 18 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 19 MR. BOULARD: Member Ghannam? 20 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 21 MR. BOULARD: Member Ibe? 22 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 23 MR. BOULARD: Member Krieger? 24 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes.
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1 MR. BOULARD: Member Skelcy? 2 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 3 MR. BOULARD: Chairman Sanghvi? 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 5 MR. BOULARD: Motion is approved 7-0. 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Congratulations. 7 MR. SLACK: Thank you very much. And 8 thank you for your compliment about the 9 store. We intend to keep our service the 10 way it is. 11 MEMBER CASSIS: Keep it up. Good luck 12 to you. 13 MR. SLACK: Thank you. 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: The next one on 15 the line. Moving onto the next case and I 16 would be calling Case Number: 09-009, Boyne 17 Country stores. Oh, I beg your pardon, I 18 stand corrected. I jumped one case. 19 Case Number 2. It's Case Number: 20 08-069 filed by Blair Bowman of ServMan LLC 21 for 46100 Grand River Avenue, Rock 22 Financial. Good evening and I apologize for 23 jumping ahead. 24 MR. BOWMAN: Good evening. How are
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1 you? I am, first of all, Blair Bowman of 2 ServMan LLC for 46100 Grand River. Like the 3 prior Applicant before you, this is a 4 continuation of a previous request that was 5 tabled. I can certainly summarize or answer 6 any questions. 7 It was primarily tabled as I 8 understood it to give the opportunity for a 9 legal opinion to be provided to the Board, 10 and for some additional discussion to take 11 place at the Ordinance Review Committee, 12 which I did have the opportunity to do. 13 You know, frankly, I don't believe any 14 modifications were actually provided to the 15 Ordinance. I think that what occurred is 16 that there was a settlement of some other 17 issues relating to a similar, but yet not so 18 exact circumstances that the City was 19 dealing with. 20 For the benefit of those that might 21 not have been present before, basically 22 summarizing our request is simply to look to 23 take two existing older expressway billboard 24 signs and replace them with a more modern
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1 single pole structure. And within doing 2 that, providing for approximately 25 percent 3 of the rotating message time to benefit the 4 showplace venue as far as the ongoing events 5 that, frankly, is continuing to be a 6 challenge. It's desperately needed to 7 provide information about what's going on at 8 the facility. 9 I did provide a packet which I think 10 has been again subsequently provided to you. 11 So I would be happy to answer any questions 12 and just frankly ask for your assistance and 13 help in this regard. And I am pleased to 14 answer any questions that you have. 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Just 16 a point of clarification. We don't need to 17 swear him in again if it's a continuation of 18 the first case? He was involved in the 19 other case, right? 20 MS. KUDLA: He is a lawyer. 21 MR. BOWMAN: No, I'm not. I'm not a 22 practicing one. No P number. 23 MS. KUDLA: Okay. You can swear him 24 in.
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1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Is there anybody 2 in the audience who would like to make any 3 comments about this case? If anybody would 4 like to, now is the time. 5 (No response.) 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing none? I 7 would close the public remarks section. 8 Building Department? 9 Do we have any new correspondence 10 also? 11 MEMBER BAUER: No. 12 MR. BOULARD: As the Petitioner 13 mentioned, this is a variance request that 14 was tabled previously for additional 15 information. There was information provided 16 in your packet. 17 I did have one question for the 18 Petitioner. In reviewing this proposal, was 19 a lesser alternative considered? In other 20 words, an installation that would require 21 fewer or lesser variances and what maybe if 22 you could comment on what the ramifications 23 of that would be. 24 MR. BOWMAN: Sure. I would say that
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1 there is a couple of points that would be 2 worth noting. One is, I think that there is 3 a couple of the cited variances which I 4 think might be a matter of interpretation. 5 But one in particular is the proximity to 6 an additional sign would be within 1,200 7 feet. And my understanding of the State 8 statutes were that that was on the same side 9 of any major freeway facility. 10 Apparently in the City's situation 11 they are looking at the sign that is across 12 the expressway. If that's the case, that's 13 exactly why we didn't cite a particular 14 location. We had suggested that we would be 15 willing to place it with input from the City 16 and even the State as far as locating it for 17 best visibility, but also sensitivity to 18 natural features. And certainly that would 19 include also eliminating that particular 20 variance by way of locating it even further 21 west on the site so that it would not 22 provide a problem there. 23 Really, the only other aspect would be 24 the size issue. And certainly we could do
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1 the sandwich face, back-to-back face 2 approach to things which I understand would 3 significantly reduce by the way that the 4 Ordinance is applied, the actual amount of 5 square footage in variance. 6 Beyond that, there is no specific, you 7 know, other applications that we had looked 8 at. I think that in this instance the 9 standards, if you would, I think you only 10 have to look up and down the entirety of the 11 freeway, you will see that these are the 12 typical size in nature because that is the 13 size that is normally required to deliver 14 safely and effectively a message. 15 Other than that, there were 16 discussions about looking possibly at other 17 signage opportunities and things of that 18 nature, which certainly we are willing to 19 explore, but I think in this particular 20 case, we do have, in the case of the actual 21 expressway sign itself, a very unique set of 22 circumstances where we are looking to 23 eliminate to two and install one. And at 24 the same time I think it's a much more
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1 attractive situation and can be more 2 appropriately placed and provide the added 3 impact which is also a benefit to the 4 community of helping sustain the major 5 economic impact of hopefully a more 6 successful venue. 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. So, 8 we have no more or new correspondence? 9 MEMBER BAUER: No, sir. 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Ms. Kudla? 11 MS. KUDLA: Just a point of 12 clarification that I wanted to make. That 13 there was at Ordinance Review Committee, 14 obviously a consideration and there was a 15 proposed draft Ordinance put together, but 16 it's correct, it has not gone to Planning 17 Commission yet. It has not gone to City 18 Council for approval, but I do believe some 19 of the specific proposed changes discussed 20 at the Ordinance Review Committee were 21 specific to this type of signage that was 22 proposed. Specifically the changeable copy 23 issue on billboards and billboards in the 24 I-2 district, keeping them in the I-2
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1 district only. So, that was just a point of 2 clarification for the record. 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 4 Thank you. Now, might I open it up to the 5 Board? 6 MEMBER CASSIS: Can I? 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. 8 MEMBER CASSIS: I will take a first 9 stab at it. And this is just more 10 clarification to me because you looked at me 11 when you said for those who weren't at this 12 Body before. 13 MR. BOWMAN: You were not here were 14 you before? 15 MEMBER CASSIS: No. And that's why I 16 wanted more clarification. Now, you said 17 that you would be eliminating two signs? 18 MR. BOWMAN: Correct. 19 MEMBER CASSIS: Is one of them the big 20 huge one now? 21 MR. BOWMAN: No. The current Rock 22 Financial Showplace marquee sign is 23 functioning frankly for the purpose of 24 assisting us in identifying to the person
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1 that's looking at it from a destination, 2 where they are going, suggesting, you know, 3 again, that that's where their intended 4 location is. But it is not effective for a 5 couple of reasons. 6 The conservation easement that 7 un-intendedly, you know, certainly we meant 8 to provide that but it had the unintended 9 consequence of blocking almost entirely when 10 you are eastbound any view of the sign. 11 And then also just because of the virtue and 12 the size of the constriction on the 13 changeable copy board itself and when you 14 have more than one show or more than a, you 15 know, a number of them occurring within a 16 range of time, you have to rotate it and it 17 just doesn't provide the opportunity for 18 people to see it. 19 It's consistently not performing. 20 Even like our old changeable copy, 21 changeable letter sign at the old facility 22 it's not as effective as that. The two that 23 I am speaking of specifically, and, again, 24 it should be in your packet is the existing
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1 lower scape expressway billboard signs that 2 are permitted by the State and we would be 3 consolidating those two into one single 4 monopole sign doing a back-to-back dual face 5 sign. 6 MEMBER CASSIS: Would that existing 7 big one still have the changeable? 8 MR. BOWMAN: Yes, it would still have 9 the same basic purpose as that sign provides 10 for. The new one, the new one that we are 11 proposing here is being provided under a 12 circumstance where the advertising company 13 would be willing to make the investment in a 14 modern, you know, changeable copy board, and 15 then provide us as a part of the arrangement 16 up to 25 percent for utilizing the face, the 17 changeable digital face for advertising 18 events at the facility. So, again, much 19 different than just asking for a 20 continuation or for a larger billboard. 21 MEMBER CASSIS: Question to either Mr. 22 Boulard or the City Attorney. Has the City 23 Council done anything legislatively in this 24 matter since I think this is something that
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1 probably the City Council would be involved 2 in and also the Planning Commission? I 3 don't know. 4 MS. KUDLA: Well, what has happened at 5 this point is that the issue has been 6 considered by the subcommittee, the 7 Ordinance Review Committee, and a draft of 8 an Ordinance amendment was put together 9 specifically relating to this issue which 10 would be maintaining off-premises 11 advertising billboards only in the I-2 12 district. This is the EXO district. And 13 not permitting changeable copy on the 14 off-premises advertising billboards. 15 So, they did come up with a proposed 16 amendment and it has been as far as a 17 recommendation is being forwarded to the 18 Planning Commission to start the process 19 because it will be an amendment to the 20 Zoning Ordinance. But that first step has 21 not occurred yet. It has not gone to 22 Planning Commission for a recommendation. 23 Once that happens the recommendation then 24 will go to City Council and they would
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1 consider Planning Commission's comments and 2 things. 3 MEMBER CASSIS: I gather that from our 4 notes and so on. But would our action 5 tonight eliminate all the other steps or 6 would we have to come back again after they 7 take their actions? 8 MS. KUDLA: Their actions are going to 9 occur regardless of what happens tonight. 10 It's going forward as planned. 11 MEMBER CASSIS: But if we make a 12 decision tonight it would be a final 13 decision? 14 MS. KUDLA: Well, if you make a 15 decision the Ordinance Amendment is still 16 going to go forward as proposed to prohibit 17 this type of situation in general along that 18 corridor on the freeway. It's a general 19 policy decision that the City is being 20 considered to prevent this type of proposal 21 in the future, right currently and in the 22 future as a policy decision. So, regardless 23 of what happens here, the Ordinance Review 24 Committee has decided that it would be a
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1 recommendation to the Planning Commission 2 and City Council not to have this type of 3 sign. 4 MEMBER CASSIS: My thinking is that 5 because we are the last resort, so-called, 6 and that's what I am trying to clarify. If 7 there was some different action taken in 8 those two other venues who would they appeal 9 to? Am I going astray here? 10 MS. KUDLA: Well, I guess maybe I need 11 some clarification. If their proposal was 12 not to pass, that the Ordinance Amendment, 13 this type of sign still currently isn't 14 permitted as requested. They are still all 15 those variance requests. So regardless of 16 what happens there, this still requires five 17 variances. 18 If you tabled it until after then, it 19 would require additional variances depending 20 on what happens there or less. But the 21 current proposal would not eliminate the 22 variances. 23 MEMBER CASSIS: I don't want to 24 eliminate your suntan tonight. I don't want
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1 you turning white. I would stop my queries 2 at this point and we will see what my 3 colleagues say. 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, thank you. 5 Anybody else? Yes, Ms. Skelcy? 6 MEMBER SKELCY: I was wondering, do 7 you currently advertise on the other large 8 billboard for the Rock Financial that is 9 further down by I think Beck Road? It's the 10 one that was used as the mock-up. 11 MR. BOWMAN: Oh, no, no. 12 MEMBER SKELCY: No Rock Financial 13 advertising on that one? 14 MR. BOWMAN: Well, I shouldn't say 15 that. I mean, some of the show producers 16 may engage a billboard signage pattern 17 through normal advertising situations, they 18 may do that. It is not one of the more 19 utilized venues. A lot of it is TV and 20 radio and news print to the degree that that 21 is starting to suffer some as far as the use 22 of the internet and things like that. But 23 we do not have any advertising on that 24 board.
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1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. Yes, Mr. 2 Bauer? 3 MEMBER BAUER: Sir, can you tell me 4 what you are going to get out of this new 5 sign being smaller for your particular 6 business over what you have right now, two 7 good signs? 8 MR. BOWMAN: Let me see if I 9 understand. 10 The two billboard signs, we would be looking 11 for a larger one. It would actually be 12 larger. 13 MEMBER BAUER: So, that's all that you 14 are really trying to get? 15 MR. BOWMAN: And the fact that it 16 would be the more modern technology and 17 allow us to access 25 percent of the 18 messaging and literally almost 19 instantaneously. For example, if we were to 20 have an event that were to come to us and 21 for circumstances out of our control have to 22 switch to us versus another venue or 23 something like that, we could literally 24 advertise that instead of having to go into
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1 the stream of a typical, you know, 2 billboard, you know, development of the 3 vinyl covering and things like that. It 4 would allow us to be able to do that. And 5 that's one major advantage to it. 6 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Anybody else? 8 Yes, Mr. Ibe? 9 MEMBER IBE: My comment is not really 10 a question to you, but more so to the City 11 Attorney. It's probably more in line with 12 Member Cassis' question. In light of the 13 fact that the City Council has this plan 14 regarding the Ordinance change, does it 15 impede or limit any action that we can take 16 today? I am still not clear on that. 17 MS. KUDLA: It doesn't impeded or 18 limit your action today, no, because it's 19 not an actual, no legislative action has 20 occurred at this point. So, no Ordinance 21 has changed. It remains as originally 22 requested that there would be required five 23 variances from the current state of the 24 Ordinance in order to grant this variance.
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1 And those five variances, depending on what 2 happens, may require more variances after 3 whatever City Council does or less, but as 4 of today it's just still the same five that 5 were proposed the last time that are 6 reflected. 7 MEMBER IBE: So, as it stands right 8 now, let's assume for the sake of argument 9 that we elect to go with whatever the 10 current state of the law is. If we do that 11 will not allow for the Applicant's petition 12 to be approved, am I correct? 13 MS. KUDLA: Could you repeat that? I 14 missed the beginning. 15 MEMBER IBE: If we were to assume that 16 the state of the law what it is right now, 17 the Ordinance was, that law does not work in 18 favor of the Applicant; is that correct? 19 MS. KUDLA: Currently as the Ordinance 20 stands the sign as proposed does not allow 21 it, no. The regulations -- am I getting at 22 what your question is? 23 MEMBER IBE: Right. So, really if I 24 understand because I know the Applicant
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1 mentioned about the settlement regarding the 2 case. It's simply if I understand, it only 3 allows prior existing signs to remain valid, 4 is that the take on it? 5 MS. KUDLA: Well, his existing signs 6 are nonconforming because at some point City 7 Council has already taken action to say that 8 billboard signs along the freeway would only 9 be permitted in an I-2. So, these two signs 10 are nonconforming. 11 MEMBER IBE: If we were to look at the 12 matter that was cited in the letter that we 13 have, the one regarding Adam's Outdoor? 14 MS. KUDLA: The Adams signs are under 15 (unintelligible). What you are talking 16 about is just general signs along the 17 freeway? 18 MEMBER IBE: Correct. 19 MS. KUDLA: Those are part of a 20 consent judgment and those read, yes, that 21 was recently settled in litigation and those 22 signs even though they don't conform to the 23 current Ordinance, those are frozen as 24 permitted as to what the settlement was on
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1 the Ordinance on the date of the settlement. 2 So, even though those are not permitted by 3 Ordinance, there is a reason. 4 MEMBER IBE: So, in other words, no 5 new signs? 6 MS. KUDLA: Those are not new signs, 7 no. 8 MEMBER IBE: Absolutely. I got it. 9 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 11 MR. BOWMAN: Is it appropriate for me 12 to? 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Just wait for a 14 second. 15 MR. BOWMAN: No problem. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: So, let me get 17 this clear once and for all. As far as we 18 are concerned the Ordinances have not 19 changed yet? 20 MS. KUDLA: That's correct. 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Number two, 22 there are some amendments to the Ordinance 23 in the pipeline, but they are still not 24 adopted, so as far as we are concerned
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1 sitting here today, we are to go by what is 2 on the books? 3 MS. KUDLA: That's correct. 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. Number 5 three, even though you have indicated that 6 these kind of things are not likely to be 7 accepted in the amendment, that doesn't 8 preclude us from making any decisions 9 tonight? 10 MS. KUDLA: The amendment goes a 11 little bit farther in clarifying some 12 regulations that are pertinent to this 13 request, but as of tonight still it's a 14 prohibited sign as proposed. It's under the 15 current regulation. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, so it's 17 still prohibited? 18 MS. KUDLA: Yes. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: So, what we are 20 talking about here is replacing two 21 nonconforming signs with two more 22 nonconforming signs? 23 MS. KUDLA: That's correct. It's 24 either a proposal for a new nonconforming
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1 use or to expand an existing nonconforming 2 use. 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. Yes, Mr. 4 Bauer? 5 MEMBER BAUER: I have been on this 6 Board a long time. 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, sir, I 8 know. I came before you 30 years ago. 9 MEMBER BAUER: I would say I think 10 about 20 years ago we had billboard signs 11 that came before us and every one of them 12 are torn down. It is my understanding that 13 the City fathers do not want off-premises 14 advertising signs except in the I-2 15 district. 16 Also, it does not want off-premises 17 advertising billboard signs allowed to have 18 changeable copy, or to increase in size. 19 So, it has been on the books for many years. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, things 21 haven't changed much. 22 MEMBER BAUER: And, really, he has got 23 more advantage of the two signs now. So I 24 would not be able to vote for it.
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1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, thank you. 2 Yes, Mr. Cassis? Is there anybody else who 3 hasn't gone forth? Okay, go ahead. 4 MEMBER CASSIS: I seem to be 5 repetitive tonight and taking more turns, so 6 I appreciate your courtesy, Mr. Chairman. 7 You know, I haven't been around this 8 venue as long as my colleague. I haven't 9 been around, I am repeating because I don't 10 have (unintelligible). Let me repeat, thank 11 you for giving me another turn on this. I 12 remember discussions when Mr. Bowman's Expo 13 Center came about. And I remember the City 14 Council wrestling with what to give him as a 15 designation whether it should be I-1, I-2 or 16 EXO or EXPO and so on. I remember that 17 discussion. They settled on EXO. Am I 18 right? 19 MR. BOWMAN: That is an overlay in the 20 OST district, correct. 21 MEMBER CASSIS: I go over that 22 repeated, aside from being old enough and 23 like to rehash things my wife tells me, are 24 we to be stringent and doctrinaire of what
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1 designation this edifice which you have on 2 that premises is? In my opinion, I don't 3 think it should be. 4 You have, Mr. Bowman, a unique project 5 or a unique kind of a business in our 6 community. There is only one Rock Financial 7 Center. In fact, in this whole area, the 8 Detroit metropolitan area. While Detroit is 9 still arguing about Cobo Hall, you have come 10 through with a kind of place that absorbs 11 all of those businesses that are not as huge 12 or do not desire to go downtown. You have 13 done well. Rock Financial has become a 14 symbol where Novi is.And when I see it on 15 television, Rock Financial Novi. We have 16 been put on the map by Twelve Oaks and by 17 your place. I wrote A, B, C, D as my 18 arguments to support your project here 19 tonight. 20 Number B I put is, you are eliminating 21 two signs. So, really, you are doing 22 something that is bringing the clutter there 23 to less signs than there will be now. So 24 that's a plus, I would say.
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1 Number C, your place is right by a 2 freeway. It's not going to be something by 3 other residences or it's not going to be 4 interfering with other smaller businesses 5 being located where you are that it might 6 overshadow or overwhelm any other businesses 7 and thus really gives you an advantage. 8 In fact, because it is by the freeway, 9 and this is not, I guess, the age of Lady 10 Bird anymore. I remember the Lady was very 11 good and she tried to eliminate all freeway 12 as much as she could. But this is a 13 different age that we're living in. Those 14 turning things, whatever you call them in 15 the signs have become very prevalent. And I 16 recall from being associated with the 17 Providence people that they wanted something 18 like that. Everybody wants that kind of a 19 thing. 20 You being in a very competitive 21 business, by installing this kind of sign 22 would give you the same kind of advantage 23 and standing that like all the others have 24 in the metropolitan area. If I go down to
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1 Cobo Hall I see all kinds of flashing signs, 2 not just one sign, but many and big huge 3 ones. Mind you, those are in the city and 4 there is a difference, I know that. 5 I think economic, and 6 we always say we shouldn't let economics 7 enter into it, but I think in this case 8 economics has become very, very important in 9 our economy and in our nation and also in 10 our community. And I think I would bend 11 towards helping you in this because if I 12 didn't, I would be not giving you the tool 13 that you feel, and I think I would agree, 14 will give you the same kind of advantage to 15 bring people to Novi to your place that can 16 spend the money here. That can be attracted 17 to our neighborhood and so on. And all of 18 the revenues and ramifications that come 19 from bringing business here in Novi. 20 The last thing I would say, number D, 21 is I think here as a businessman myself, and 22 I have been in it a long time, if at any 23 time I as a good businessman conscientious 24 and aware of what makes my place good and
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1 attractive and will bring people and will 2 not really make undue hardship on others, if 3 I felt at any time that has happened, I will 4 change it. Even after I put it up. And I 5 believe that you are that kind of an 6 operator. If we give you the grant tonight, 7 and I am willing to vote for it, I think if 8 you reach at any time the conclusion that 9 your business is not really that kind of -- 10 doesn't need that kind of a thing, I think 11 you will come forward and say I want to 12 change it. And for these reasons I would 13 tend to go along and okay the request 14 tonight. 15 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. 17 Cassis. Thank you for you eloquent 18 discourse and I do appreciate your 19 eloquence. Thank you. 20 I consider my job as a member of the 21 Zoning Board of Appeals primarily to uphold 22 Ordinances of the City. To uphold 23 Ordinances of the City and when necessary 24 find exceptions and maybe vote for
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1 variances. But the primary function is, of 2 course, upholding the Ordinances and City's 3 rules and regulations within limits. What I 4 see here in this situation is very simple. 5 There are two nonconforming signs which are 6 being replaced by two more nonconforming 7 signs and other details which are not 8 permitted by the Ordinances as they stand 9 today. And I don't see any pressing need to 10 make any changes in what there already is 11 whether it's going to make any substantial 12 difference. And, so, I'm sorry to say, but 13 I cannot support this variance at this point 14 in time. Thank you. 15 Anybody else? Yes, Mr. Boulard? 16 MR. BOULARD: I guess you had 17 mentioned two signs. I just wanted to 18 clarify that based on the previous 19 discussion, and perhaps the Petitioner could 20 confirm that, the Petitioner agrees that the 21 V-shaped sign would actually be flat back to 22 back so it would only count as a single 23 sign, double sided as it's listed in the 24 sign Ordinance.
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1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Whether you call 2 it eliminate and put a new one or you call 3 it replace, it comes to the same thing in my 4 opinion. Thank you. 5 MR. BOULARD: Thank you. 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes? Anybody 7 else? 8 MEMBER KRIEGER: Question? 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. 10 MEMBER KRIEGER: Coming eastbound on 11 96 the sign that's closest to Beck is that 12 yours? There is a, I think it's a V-shaped 13 sign similar to the Rock Financial sign. 14 MR. BOWMAN: With the Rock Financial 15 on it? 16 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 17 MR. BOWMAN: Yes. 18 MEMBER KRIEGER: And then if you go 19 further when you get off at Beck there is 20 another one on the south side that is a pole 21 sign. 22 MEMBER SKELCY: I think she is talking 23 about the mock-up. 24 MR. BOWMAN: Oh, no, no. That is on a
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1 parcel of land which is owned by another 2 party and I am a, a very minor part of a 3 group that owns, but has leased that sign by 4 way of easement and I have no control over 5 that sign, the mock-up sign. 6 MEMBER KRIEGER: So, the sign that you 7 are asking for would be similar to that and 8 would it be closer toward Beck than toward 9 Novi Road? 10 MR. BOWMAN: Are you familiar with 11 where the two lower stature existing signs 12 are that I am looking to replace? Do you 13 know where the marquee sign is on the 14 expressway side of things, the Rock 15 Financial Showplace monument sign? 16 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 17 MR. BOWMAN: So, just to the east of 18 that on, again, the south side, same side as 19 the Showplace is two existing lower scape 20 existing expressway billboards. Those are 21 the two which we are speaking of and 22 replacing. It will not be the same as the 23 pole sign which is further west closest to 24 Beck Road that is used in the mock-up.
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1 Particularly now in that that sign has 2 actually been recently altered to actually 3 have two electronic digital faces on it. 4 So, my proposal as it stands is 5 currently to eliminate two signs. And with 6 all due respect to the Chairperson, and 7 install a single sign by virtue of the 8 Ordinance which one face of which would be 9 an LED digital face board. 10 MEMBER KRIEGER: And that would be in 11 the area where the Rock Financial sign is 12 currently? 13 MR. BOWMAN: It would be to the east 14 as I have proposed it. In fact, the logical 15 location would be considerably closer to 16 Taft Road actually than to Beck Road. 17 MEMBER KRIEGER: Okay. Thank you. 18 MEMBER SKELCY: I have a question. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, go ahead. 20 MEMBER SKELCY: Are you going to be 21 like a 100 percent owner then of this 22 particular sign? 23 MR. BOWMAN: We will own it. It will 24 be a leased situation to an outdoor
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1 advertising company who has agreed to make 2 the overall investment because these are 3 very expensive assets to install. Then in 4 return for our providing them the location 5 they would then give us 25 percent of the 6 rotating message side of the panel. 7 MEMBER SKELCY: For free? 8 MR. BOWMAN: Well, it's not for fee. 9 MEMBER SKELCY: For no charge? 10 MR. BOWMAN: Yeah, we would have no 11 charge to us for that messaging time and 12 access to being able to do that. It would 13 be in a normal rotation so that over the 14 course of a 24-hour period we would have 25 15 percent of that time. 16 MEMBER SKELCY: Is the sign company 17 that produces the signs with the LED are 18 they considered a lessee to you then? 19 MR. BOWMAN: I think they would be a 20 licensee possibly, I'm not sure technically, 21 lessee or licensee. 22 MEMBER SKELCY: So, you would recoup 23 the profits from whatever they paid to you 24 just through the lease or?
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1 MR. BOWMAN: No, they would be 2 providing me the time. 3 MEMBER SKELCY: But for all the other 4 advertising that is not Rock Financial? 5 MR. BOWMAN: They would retain that. 6 That's theirs to do. Literally this sign 7 would be projected to cost somewhere in the 8 half million to $700,000 range, so they 9 would install it and they would be making 10 that investment. They would be contracting 11 with advertisers just like they do in other 12 locations. But in this instance we would 13 be -- and, again, this is why it's unique as 14 compared to just a farmer's plot along the 15 way or some other I-2 property, this would 16 be allowing us then to access a portion of 17 that messaging for the purposes of 18 advertising the events at the facility. 19 And that's what we are really, I guess 20 I will say desperately looking to do in an 21 effective way that we are not doing 22 currently. 23 MEMBER SKELCY: That tall monument 24 sign that you have there currently with the
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1 rotation and it's in that red color, how 2 close is this proposed sign going to be to 3 that? 4 MR. BOWMAN: Again, we did not cite a 5 specific location, but it could be as far 6 towards Taft Road as anyone that would work 7 with us from the City would like or from the 8 State. Again, there is topography issues to 9 be considered there. One of the key things 10 that we consistently have to do with the 11 existing signs is continue diminution and 12 cutting of the vegetation which the State 13 has to allow the cutting down of the trees 14 and things like that to maintain a clear 15 view which would not have to be done if we 16 were able to extend to the height that we 17 looking to do in a typical expressway 18 monument pole height, but we could place it 19 virtually wherever. We have over a half 20 mile of frontage. 21 The requirement is only 1,000 22 feet under the State statute and I think 23 1,200 feet under the City. So we could put 24 it anywhere to provide adequate placement
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1 even closer to the western boundary line of 2 our property if that's what the City would 3 desire or indicate. We would be totally 4 flexible. 5 MEMBER SKELCY: Then the two 6 traditional billboards that you have, are 7 these lit at night? 8 MR. BOWMAN: Yes, they are. 9 MEMBER SKELCY: I have no other 10 questions. Thank you. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Anybody else? 12 Seeing none, any further discussion? Or 13 would anybody like to make any motion? 14 MEMBER CASSIS: Can I? 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead if you 16 want to, sure. 17 MEMBER CASSIS: Thank you, Mr. 18 Chairman. I will go with a motion to 19 approve and it's up to my colleagues, of 20 course, for a vote. As I have mentioned in 21 my previous talk about this, is that, number 22 one, I considered the situation about the 23 idea whether this Expo center is really an 24 EXO or I-2 or I-1. I think in looking at it
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1 myself I don't think it could be extremely 2 relevant to this situation in my opinion. 3 Secondly, the Petitioner here is 4 eliminating two signs and replacing them 5 with one sign. So, there is a quit pro quo, 6 whatever measurement you give it, it's 7 there. And number three, we have a business 8 here that is complimentary to our city and 9 brings additional revenue and taxes and 10 resources to our area. Fourth, these signs 11 that are involved here are next to a freeway 12 that do not really impact and bring any 13 other hardship to any other person. 14 I feel while it's not really a 15 terrific hardship on the Petitioner not to 16 put this kind of a sign replacing those two 17 others, in my opinion it's still not giving 18 him the same advantage as it gives to other 19 businesses along the freeways be they 20 hospitals or be they whatever other 21 businesses that are even of a minor and 22 lower kind of impact that this Petitioner 23 has. 24 And then I would resort to this motion
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1 that was put here which is, I would approve 2 this based on, the request here is based 3 upon circumstances of features that are 4 exceptional and unique to the property and 5 do not result from conditions that exist 6 generally in the city or that are self 7 created. 8 Second, the failure to grant relief 9 will unreasonably prevent or limit the use 10 of the property and will result in 11 substantially more than mere inconvenience 12 or inability to attain a higher economic and 13 financial return. And I have alluded to 14 that before. The grant of relief will not 15 result in a use of structure which is 16 incompatible with or unreasonably interferes 17 with adjacent or surrounding properties. 18 Will result in substantial justice being 19 done to both the Applicant and adjacent or 20 surrounding properties. And is not 21 inconsistent with the spirit of the 22 Ordinance. 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, the motion 24 has been made.
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1 MS. KUDLA: Just a clarification. Did 2 you indicate to grant the motion as 3 requested or grant the variance as 4 requested? 5 MEMBER CASSIS: Yeah, I said it. 6 MS. KUDLA: Okay. 7 MEMBER CASSIS: If not, let it be. 8 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Waiting for a 9 second. 10 (No response.) 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Well, where do 12 we go from here, Counselor? We haven't had 13 a -- 14 MS. KUDLA: The motion is not seconded 15 so it dies. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: How long do we 17 give it? 18 MS. KUDLA: I don't think we have a 19 specific time frame in the rules of 20 procedure, but a reasonable time. 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, we'll give 22 it a reasonable time. Two more minutes. 23 MEMBER CASSIS: Thank you, Mr. 24 Chairman, for giving us the time.
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1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: My pleasure. 2 MEMBER CASSIS: Because it is kind of 3 a tough decision to make and I appreciate 4 that. And I know my colleagues are really 5 giving it all the due consideration that it 6 deserves. And I appreciate that, thank you. 7 MEMBER IBE: Mr. Chair, just a 8 comment, please. Can I make a comment? 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. 10 MEMBER IBE: Thank you. I am 11 wrestling with this myself. I do understand 12 obviously the plight of the businessman. 13 And, Mr. Cassis, you stated your points 14 eloquently. 15 The problem I am wrestling with is 16 trying to balance what the existing law is 17 and trying to accommodate the need of the 18 Petitioner as well. And I am also looking 19 at other big businesses out there that may 20 not be as big as Rock Financial, but it does 21 provide certain needs that we need in the 22 city. 23 I think we have had one or two that we 24 have already denied that were similar to
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1 this since I have been sitting this Board. 2 And one of them actually is across the 3 street from Rock Financial. I would hate to 4 have a situation where create two standards. 5 One for a large business and one for a small 6 business. 7 I think that the fair thing to do is 8 look at things on a case by case basis, but 9 to look at it fairly from everyone's point 10 of view, from the Petitioner's point of 11 view. And if I would make a comparison to 12 the business across the street from Rock 13 Financial that was denied a while back, I 14 think came back to us twice, he presented a 15 good case as well. If I wanted to look at 16 it from an economic point of view I would 17 have wanted to grant it. But the Board 18 obviously denied that Petitioner's request 19 for the same reasons that I think this Board 20 is hesitant to grant this particular 21 Petitioner's request. 22 I am trying to understand how this is 23 not self created. That is one of the things 24 I am wrestling with here. This is an
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1 off-premises advertising. It's going to be 2 run by an outside agency. The benefit of 3 the use to Rock Financial is only 25 4 percent. So, the other agency controls what 5 really goes on on this off-premises 6 advertising. It's not under the control of 7 Rock Financial. I have a huge problem with 8 that. But that shouldn't play a role in my 9 decision, but sadly to tell you that it 10 doesn't, I would lie to you. 11 I find it extremely difficult to say 12 that this is not self created. I think 13 there are other options. It is tough to say 14 you are going remove something that is 15 nonconforming but you are going to replace 16 it with another nonconforming. I think 17 that's like having, it's like saying we are 18 going to take a bank that has failed and put 19 more money in it to hope that it's doesn't 20 fail next week. It's still going to fail. 21 MEMBER CASSIS: They are doing it all 22 the time now. 23 MEMBER IBE: That's why we are in this 24 mess we're in.
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1 MEMBER CASSIS: (Unintelligible). 2 MEMBER IBE: I understand, Mr. Cassis, 3 but what I understand is this. The 4 Ordinance as written I think is clear. 5 (Unintelligible) the City Attorney for the 6 notices that we received. That's why I 7 didn't ask any questions because I just 8 wanted verification. I think the existing 9 law as it is prohibits what the Petitioner 10 is requesting. And even if we take any 11 action that is positive, that is positive to 12 the Petitioner's request, future laws that 13 are going to come up from the City Council 14 will still be inconsistent with what this 15 Board will do. 16 Unfortunately, Mr. Cassis, and nothing 17 against the Petitioner, I just don't know 18 how if you have enough votes to pass this 19 motion. I am still on the fence, so unless 20 you find a way to convince me, I don't know 21 which way I am going to go. Thank you, Mr. 22 Chair. 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Now, 24 I think you have (unintelligible) the floor,
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1 but go ahead. 2 MEMBER CASSIS: You are on that fence. 3 I am going to push you one way or another. 4 And I respect what you just said 5 tremendously. You have always been as far 6 as I am concerned in the small amount of 7 time that I have been with you here on this 8 side, you have been extremely thoughtful and 9 very eloquent too. 10 MEMBER IBE: Thank you. 11 MEMBER CASSIS: I don't think self 12 created or not self created is really the 13 major determinant in my going along to 14 approve this, and I don't think it should 15 with all due respect, it should be a 16 determinant in the decision because we are 17 dealing here with a very modern type of a 18 situation. And I mean by modern, for lack 19 of any other word that I might pull from my 20 dictionary, from my head, is that we are 21 living as I said in a different age. Time 22 is going so fast and businesses have to 23 adapt and keep even ahead or otherwise they 24 will be left behind.
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1 I recently heard some 2 murmuring that there might be another venue 3 like Rock Financial being built somewhere 4 else and it would have been in Oakland 5 County. I do not mean to bring any kind of 6 political issues here or competitive issues 7 to try to convenience my colleagues, 8 however, it is what item that would support 9 my conviction that we are in a different 10 age. This man, this project is trying to 11 compete, stay ahead and keep, keep ahead of 12 the time. And I think if anything and if it 13 makes any one of us feel more comfortable is 14 not base it on whether an Ordinance already 15 exist or not from the City. And mind you, 16 Mr. Chairman, I wholly agree with you, if 17 there is no Ordinance that goes along with 18 this and, in fact, it may be contrary to a 19 certain Ordinance that is there. But, 20 however, I don't think our City Council, our 21 legislative body or any other body has 22 really tackled a situation like this. 23 This is a unique situation I believe 24 and it calls for a unique kind of decision.
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1 And it so happens that this is, I believe, a 2 kind of unique decision that we should be 3 making is that this is a major, major 4 project or business that we have in our 5 community. We have seen the actual 6 operation of this business. It's been 7 exemplar. It's been doing good. We have 8 never had any, as I recall any problems with 9 any violations in this business. And also 10 it's half off the freeway. It's so far 11 removed from our direct impact on any 12 businesses in the area. And you are willing 13 to put it anywhere within that half mile 14 stretch that you have talked about and 15 coordinate it with the City to give it the 16 most convenient and yet very conducive kind 17 of location. 18 I think this is how I would approach 19 it in my mind if I was trying to make a 20 decision on this side of the table. And I 21 know it is very, this is a very tough, tough 22 decision to make. Thank you, Mr. Chair. 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. 24 Cassis. Thank you very much. I don't see
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1 any second coming along, so I guess we have 2 to deal with this motion to have failed for 3 lack of a second. 4 So, moving on, I would entertain any 5 other motion if anybody would like to make, 6 other than the one made by Mr. Cassis in a 7 different direction. Your silence is 8 deafening. 9 This is a very tough situation. I 10 agree with most of the things you said, but 11 my problem is very simple. I am not a 12 legislature and it is not the responsibility 13 of a quasi judicial body to legislate new 14 Ordinances for the City. It is the job of 15 the City Council and I cannot bring myself 16 to start legislating from this chair. Thank 17 you. 18 MEMBER BAUER: I will try. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, go ahead. 20 MEMBER BAUER: We have in Case: 21 08-069, five different items and I'll read 22 them off and why I'm against it and why I 23 would like everybody to vote for it. One is 24 changeable copy of the sign. You want to be
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1 on a ground sign. Off-premises advertising 2 signs are only permitted in an I-2 zone 3 district. Off-premises advertising signs 4 not more than 300 square feet, 15 feet tall. 5 Mr. Bowman is going for two to three times 6 the square footage that our Ordinance has 7 set. And three times, over three times the 8 height. These are an off-premises 9 advertising sign being located closer than 10 1,200 feet from any other advertising sign. 11 I think this would be overwhelming. And 12 also the Applicant may need a variance that 13 says that this sign is not maintained on a 14 static message. 15 And I do believe as my colleague, Mr. 16 Ibe, had said, I do believe that this is 17 more than less self made. 18 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 19 MS. KUDLA: Is that a motion? 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: That is the 21 motion. 22 MS. KUDLA: Can I suggest sort of 23 rephrasing it? Is it a motion to deny the 24 variances as requested in Case: 08-069
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1 because the proposed variance is 2 inconsistent with the spirit and intent of 3 the Ordinance. Given that the Applicant has 4 not shown that there are not other 5 alternatives more consistent with the spirit 6 and intent of the Ordinance. And the City's 7 policy to limit off-premises advertising 8 signs to the I-2 district and to prohibit 9 changeable copy messages on off-premise 10 advertising billboards. And that based on 11 the fact that the proposal is self created. 12 MEMBER BAUER: I'll buy that. Women 13 say it so much nicer than us. 14 MR. BOWMAN: Indeed, it's amazing. 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Is that clear on 16 the motion? 17 MS. KUDLA: I think I sort of covered 18 what you -- 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I think you 20 covered it. Thank you. 21 MR. BOWMAN: Sort of. 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I am not going 23 to wait for somebody else to second it. I 24 will second it myself so that we can move
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1 on. I second the motion. 2 Any further discussion? Seeing none, 3 Mr. Boulard, will you please call the roll. 4 MR. BOULARD: Member Bauer? 5 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 6 MR. BOULARD: Member Cassis? 7 MEMBER CASSIS: No. 8 MR. BOULARD: Member Ghannam? 9 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 10 MR. BOULARD: Member Ibe? 11 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 12 MR. BOULARD: Member Krieger? 13 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 14 MR. BOULARD: Member Skelcy? 15 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 16 MR. BOULARD: Chairman Sanghvi? 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 18 MR. BOULARD: The motion to deny is 19 approved 6-1. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 21 MR. BOWMAN: Thank you very much for 22 you time. 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I'm sorry -- 24 MR. BOWMAN: I appreciate it. No
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1 worries. 2 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, let's move 4 on to the next one. Case Number: 09-009, 5 Boyne Country Sports at 27782 Novi Road. Is 6 the Applicant here? Will you please 7 identify yourself, your name and address and 8 if you are not an attorney please be sworn 9 in by our Secretary. Thank you. 10 MR. COLLINS: I am not an 11 attorney. My name is Keith Collins for 12 leased property 27782 Novi Road. 13 MEMBER BAUER: Would you raise your 14 right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell 15 the truth regarding Case: 09-009? 16 MR. COLLINS: I do. 17 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you, sir. 18 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. 19 MR. COLLINS: Basically what we're 20 asking for is currently I don't know, I will 21 brief you real quick. Boyne Country Sports 22 is a store, in case you don't know what that 23 is. We are basically an Alpine ski, 24 snowboard and golf specialty retailer. We
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1 have been in business in the Novi Town 2 Center for 20 years. And recently we had 3 the opportunity to go ahead and move our 4 location and to be on the service drive of 5 the Twelve Oaks Mall. 6 And it was just an opportunity to be a 7 part of that mall. And I feel that our 8 store can bring something else to Twelve 9 Oaks as well. And it was an opportunity we 10 couldn't pass up and that's what we are 11 going to do. And we are looking for 12 basically just another store sign to be able 13 to put above our entrance to the building 14 just to give our customers another 15 additional chance to know where we moved and 16 to give them every opportunity to find us 17 going forward. 18 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 19 That's it? 20 MR. COLLINS: Yes. 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 22 MR. COLLINS: I will be happy to 23 answer any questions that you guys may have. 24 The reason as you guys are familiar probably
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1 with where we are moving as well, the 2 uniqueness of the building that we are 3 moving to from Novi Road is the Novi Office 4 Center. And our store extends on the back 5 of the office center. I just feel that we 6 need more visibility for our customers to be 7 able to find us. Currently at our old 8 location we had plenty of signage on the 9 building for our customers to be able to 10 find us. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 12 Is there anybody in the audience who would 13 like to address the Board regarding this 14 case? 15 (No response.) 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing none. 17 Building Department? 18 MR. BOULARD: I have no comments 19 beyond what's in the staff report. There 20 are two ground signs for the building now. 21 Is that correct? 22 MR. COLLINS: Yes, that is correct. 23 And to go back to the uniqueness of that 24 building. The exposure to Novi Road, if you
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1 look at this building it's an office 2 building. They do have a monument sign 3 right on Novi Road for the Novi Office 4 Center. But our retail location is off the 5 back side of this building which is not seen 6 or visible from the Novi Road at all. 7 We have one monument sign that we 8 would utilize on the ring drive road around 9 the service drive of the mall. But that's 10 where I struggle. We have nothing to do 11 with the monument sign on Novi Road. We 12 only have the monument sign on the ring 13 drive. Two signs to that building? Yes. 14 Are they the same building? That's where my 15 struggle is. 16 MR. BOULARD: So, just for point of 17 clarification, there is a single piece of 18 property with a building with several uses 19 on it. There is one monument sign which 20 advertises or identifies the center. There 21 is another on the ring road on the east side 22 that is a ground sign that you will be using 23 to identify your business, and then the 24 proposal is for a wall sign also on the
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1 business? 2 MR. COLLINS: Correct. 3 MR. BOULARD: If there are any 4 questions I will be happy to answer them. 5 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Mr. 6 Secretary, do you have any correspondence? 7 MEMBER BAUER: There were the 96 8 notices mailed out. Nine returned. No 9 responses. 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, thank you. 11 We'll open it to the Board, now. Yes? 12 MEMBER SKELCY: I don't understand how 13 the sign on the building would help the 14 advertising on the Novi Road side, because 15 when I drove by there I saw that you had the 16 blank monument sign. You haven't had it 17 printed up yet. 18 MR. COLLINS: Correct. 19 MEMBER SKELCY: And then you have got 20 it facing east toward ring road, how does 21 that sign help with regard to people coming 22 in from, I guess, the back? 23 MR. COLLINS: That is correct, but the 24 service drive that comes directly right
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1 across the back of the building there, there 2 is an entrance to our parking lot right from 3 that mall entrance. And if we had a sign on 4 the building too, when people were coming in 5 finding that they could identify our store 6 and still make the turn into the parking lot 7 before they drove right past to find the 8 monument sign to the building. 9 MEMBER SKELCY: Okay, thank you. 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. 11 Ghannam? 12 MEMBER GHANNAM: I just have a couple 13 questions for the City. The sign that's 14 proposed is it within the City Ordinance the 15 size? 16 MR. BOULARD: The sign that's proposed 17 is not allowed. So there wouldn't be a 18 limit on it. Any size is not allowed. I 19 don't know if the -- I don't know what size 20 would be allowed if it were the only sign 21 because it's not based, it would be based on 22 the setback. 23 MEMBER GHANNAM: Right. I guess that 24 was my question. Had you not had a monument
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1 sign what would the size be allowable for 2 the wall and would this be consistent with 3 (unintelligible)? 4 MR. BOULARD: I don't know that. I 5 have to know the setback from the center 6 line of the road. 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Bauer? 8 MEMBER BAUER: There is no size in the 9 sign on his petition. (Unintelligible) at 10 that point. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes? 12 MR. BOULARD: If I may. There is on 13 the drawing it says the east elevation, 14 there is a proposed sign of 111 inches by 71 15 inches. I am not sure if that clarifies it 16 or helps in any way. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Cassis? 18 MEMBER CASSIS: Just informative 19 question, Mr. Boulard. Usually shopping 20 centers or whatever you want to call this, 21 and may I say that this shopping center is 22 one of the weirdest ones I have seen. And, 23 in fact, the people that own it are going to 24 try to change it in some way to make it more
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1 conducive to businesses. Usually in 2 shopping centers you have a big monument 3 sign that identifies all the businesses that 4 are in that center and we allow those, am I 5 right? 6 MR. BOULARD: Yes, there are 7 identification signs for centers allowed. 8 MEMBER CASSIS: The one on Ten Mile 9 and Novi Road or -- you know, all of those 10 areas that have multiple -- 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Tenants. 12 MEMBER CASSIS: Tenants, they usually 13 put up a sign that says, or even across -- 14 the Gershenson one has a big one that says 15 K-Mart or whatever it was. In this is case 16 there is none. 17 MR. COLLINS: For Twelve Oaks Mall, 18 no, there is not. 19 MEMBER CASSIS: Does that make any 20 difference in trying to -- and I don't know 21 if this gentleman will eliminate one of 22 those other signs. 23 MR. COLLINS: Well, the Novi office -- 24 MEMBER CASSIS: And take this one
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1 instead. 2 MR. COLLINS: No, I would like to keep 3 the monument sign as well. 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: This is a center 5 within the Twelve Oaks Mall. This is not 6 part of the Twelve Oaks site, but this is on 7 the periphery. And it has got a setback and 8 it has got also a gradient problem as 9 compared to the road and Novi Road which is 10 at a much lower level. So, the exposure 11 from the Novi Road is very difficult without 12 a wall sign. 13 MEMBER CASSIS: Yeah, that's what I 14 was trying to communicate in my awkward way. 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: The monument 16 sign you are referring to is for multiple 17 tenants in the same location. He is only 18 one of them. There are other empty spots at 19 the moment, but there used to be more 20 tenants in that complex before. Yes? 21 MEMBER SKELCY: If you going around 22 this ring road and your business is on the 23 right, if you miss the pull in to get into 24 it is your next stop outside of the mall,
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1 leaving the mall? In other words, if I 2 don't see the sign, the monument sign -- 3 MR. COLLINS: I got you. If you come 4 in and you miss the sign on our building. 5 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 6 MR. COLLINS: The proposed sign and 7 you took a right and you went through Ring 8 Drive which would take you in front of our 9 store. 10 MEMBER SKELCY: Right. 11 MR. COLLINS: As soon as you passed 12 the monument sign there would be another 13 opportunity to come back into our parking 14 lot, but you would actually pass our store, 15 you would have to come in and backtrack back 16 into our parking lot. That is the parking 17 lot that is, I believe, going to be shared 18 eventually with the tenant whoever takes 19 over the new furniture building and that 20 whole corner of the Twelve Oaks mall there. 21 MEMBER SKELCY: Do they have to do the 22 turnaround, do they have to? 23 MR. COLLINS: If they pass that, then, 24 yes, they would have to go back around to
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1 Novi Road. 2 MEMBER SKELCY: They do have to exit 3 off onto Novi Road? 4 MR. COLLINS: That or take Ring Drive 5 all the way around Twelve Oaks. 6 MEMBER SKELCY: All the way around? 7 MR. COLLINS: Correct. Also just to 8 mention as well. In order first to come 9 here tonight we did have to submit our plans 10 and get approval from Taubman, with the mall 11 as well, and I did receive that approval 12 yesterday, so I do have that if you guys 13 need to review it and see it as well. Our 14 landlord and the Taubman Company did approve 15 for a building sign. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Bauer? 17 MEMBER BAUER: We need that. 18 MR. COLLINS: I got it. 19 MEMBER BAUER: Because our letter from 20 them as of March 16th, said they denied it. 21 MR. COLLINS: Correct. I made sure 22 that I had it for tonight. 23 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 24 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I have a
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1 question for you, sir. 2 MR. COLLINS: Yes. 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Is this the same 4 sign or similar sign as what you used to 5 have in the previous location? 6 MR. COLLINS: Yes. The size was 7 predetermined because it is a sign that we 8 took off the existing Novi store and we were 9 going to move it to -- 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: You were in the 11 Town Center I know that. I have been there 12 shopping before there, so I know where you 13 were. Now you are moved to a new location 14 and it's the same sign you are moving? 15 MR. COLLINS: Yes. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, very good. 17 Anybody else? 18 MEMBER IBE: Just real quickly. I 19 just need to for the sake of disclosure, 20 that he mentioned the Taubman. The 21 president of my office is related to the 22 Taubmans, so I just want to make sure there 23 is no connection with myself or to the mall. 24 Just so we know. I just want make sure that
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1 disclosure is out there. 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: No, you are 3 okay. All right. 4 MEMBER IBE: Thank you. 5 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. Do I hear 6 a motion from somebody about this case? 7 MEMBER IBE: Can I go ahead? 8 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Sure. 9 MEMBER IBE: On Case number: 09-009 10 filed by Boyne Country Sports, requesting a 11 variance to allow a wall sign on the east 12 elevation of the building located at 27782 13 Novi Road, I move that we grant the 14 Applicant's request. The request is based 15 upon circumstances or features that are 16 exceptional and unique to the property and 17 do not result from conditions that exist 18 generally in the city or that are self 19 created. 20 A failure to grant relief will 21 unreasonably prevent or limit the use of the 22 property and will result in substantially 23 more than mere inconvenience or inability to 24 attain a higher economic or financial
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1 return. The grant of relief will not result 2 in use of structure that is incompatible 3 with or unreasonably interferes with 4 adjacent or surrounding properties. Will 5 result in substantial justice being done to 6 both the Applicant and the surrounding 7 properties and is not inconsistent with the 8 spirit of the Ordinance. 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 10 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All right. A 12 motion has been made and seconded. I don't 13 see any further discussion coming up, will 14 you please call the roll. 15 MR. BOULARD: Member Skelcy? 16 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 17 MR. BOULARD: Member Krieger? 18 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 19 MR. BOULARD: Member Ibe? 20 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 21 MR. BOULARD: Member Ghannam? 22 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 23 MR. BOULARD: Member Cassis? 24 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes.
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1 MR. BOULARD: Member Bauer? 2 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 3 MR. BOULARD: Chairman Sanghvi? 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 5 Congratulations. Thank you and good luck in 6 your new place. 7 MR. COLLINS: Thank you. 8 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Case 9 number: 09-010, 47601 Grand River Avenue, 10 Providence Hospital. 11 MEMBER KRIEGER: We're moving that one 12 to the end. 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Oh, yes. 14 MEMBER BAUER: Number seven. 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Ms. Krieger 16 works for Providence Hospital and had a 17 question whether she should continue to 18 participate in the discussion or should she 19 be excused. Is that your question? 20 MEMBER IBE: No, Mr. Chair. I think 21 her question was that number four was 22 supposed to have been moved to -- 23 MEMBER CASSIS: A later time. 24 MEMBER IBE: -- a later time.
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1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. 2 3 (Interposing)(Unintelligible). 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: They are 5 coming both together, okay. I beg your 6 pardon. 7 8 Moving on to 09-012 filed by Roger -- 9 I hope I say it correctly -- Soulliere of 10 Stone City, Incorporated for 26940 Taft 11 Road, Stone City. 12 MR. SOULLIERE: Hello, you said it 13 correctly, Soulliere. Thank you. 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All right, 15 please give your name. 16 MR. SOULLIERE: My name is Roger 17 Soulliere. I am the owner of Stone City and 18 Soulliere Decorative Stone. We have been 19 there for almost nine, ten years. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Before you go 21 further will you please be sworn in. 22 MEMBER BAUER: Do you swear or affirm 23 to tell the truth regarding case: 09-012? 24 MR. SOULLIERE: I do.
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1 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you, sir. 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Go 3 ahead. 4 MR. SOULLIERE: I would like to 5 continue the use of the outside storage that 6 we have used. We do appreciate all the help 7 that you had by allowing us to put the 8 outdoor sign on the corner which has helped 9 out a lot bringing some traffic in. 10 Hopefully business does continue to grow 11 there. 12 During the beginning of our petition 13 we did plant quite a few pine trees up along 14 there and they are growing nicely shielding 15 off any distractions or anything from that 16 area. We have currently purchased out Dixie 17 Cut Stone. They have decided to get out of 18 the granite and stone business in which we 19 want to elaborate a little bit on that with 20 some inside storage and start cleaning it up 21 and have a little nicer facility to sell 22 finished granite and product. So, we see 23 that in the near future once the market 24 returns to make that a nicer interior
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1 showroom stone supply yard so that you can 2 come to. 3 It has been there for five years and 4 we would like to show that in good faith we 5 will continue to conform and to supply with 6 the products for the local areas. I know a 7 lot of people are coming in to fix up their 8 homes the ones that people are staying in or 9 foreclosed to help them with some good 10 products and items to keep the place looking 11 good in the local market. Thank you. 12 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Is there anybody 13 in the audience who would like to comment 14 about this case? 15 (No response.) 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing 17 none. Building Department? 18 MR. BOULARD: Thank you. This as it 19 was mentioned in the staff report, this is a 20 nonconforming use is in the I-1 district 21 with the exterior storage. Originally there 22 were variances granted in 2000 and 2004. 23 And that last variance expired fairly 24 recently. Hence, the Petitioner's presence
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1 here. 2 One question I had. Was this a 3 temporary use, the use that requires a 4 variance? Is it a temporary use? Is it 5 your plan to find a conforming spot at some 6 point or to request rezoning? 7 MR. SOULLIERE: We were looking. We 8 have been talking to a couple other places 9 to merge with them as a stone yard making 10 that more of an interior showroom, a little 11 nicer venue. Maybe enclosing more. The 12 market has been kind of tough and the road 13 and all during this time, you know, we have 14 fought through a lot of different hardships 15 with them rebuilding Grand River Road, 16 people not getting to our place, trying to 17 collect some other revenue and income. And, 18 you know, eventually down the line we would 19 like to make that a nicer showroom, a nicer 20 inside and sell more higher-end granite 21 products and finished stone product like 22 that in our long-term plans. A little 23 lesser of the landscape supply products. 24 MR. BOULARD: Actually I had another
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1 question. You had mentioned that you had 2 planted some pine trees and I am not sure 3 where. I brought the area photographs just 4 so you can take a look at how things have 5 changed through time. So maybe you could 6 tell us where those are. Also, right now 7 there is a line of pine tree along the 8 freeway that has been there for some time. 9 MR. SOULLIERE: That's what was asked 10 for at the beginning to plant those and to 11 maintain those so that there wouldn't be any 12 type of distraction or unsightly look from 13 the freeway. And I think they filled in 14 well and they have shielded that area. 15 And, again, our area is out there and 16 not really visually seen from any 17 residential. We are well off the main 18 roads. It's kind of a hidden spot. A good 19 place for local contractors and people that 20 come by and to get their products to service 21 the local areas. 22 MR. BOULARD: There is a fair amount 23 of storage at the west end of the line of 24 trees where it's pushed right up against the
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1 fence there. Was the intent to extend the 2 screening along there at all at some point? 3 MR. SOULLIERE: Nothing was ever asked 4 about that. We had on the west side some 5 gardens in there in which we putting some 6 pavings. There is that house there we're 7 looking to possibly rebuild that house, 8 maybe make it more into somewhat of an 9 office. I don't know, tear it down, do 10 something with it. We were trying to see 11 how the Novi Expo Center was going to be 12 developed at some time, if they were going 13 to be putting up hotels and what would be 14 best suited for the property. 15 So, we are trying to keep it somewhat 16 open. It seems like there is, as the 17 economy grows or wherever it goes we want to 18 be able to capitalize on it through whatever 19 different avenues that we can. 20 MR. BOULARD: Does the request, just 21 as a note, the previous variance was for 22 three years, the variance extension. The 23 request the gentleman has made is for five 24 years in the application. Being that it's
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1 essentially a nonconforming use that's being 2 allowed on that site under a variance, my 3 suggestion would be no more than two years. 4 Nothing else. 5 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. 6 Boulard. 7 Mr. Bauer, do you have some 8 correspondence? 9 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. There were 57 10 notices mailed out, eight were returned and 11 we had one response from Corrigan Moving and 12 Storage. And it so states that: This 13 letter is to state our approval of the 14 requested variance of Stone City Outside 15 Storage. Corrigan Worldwide is the neighbor 16 south of Stone City. We feel that Stone 17 City has done a good job in keeping their 18 outside storage neat, organized and out of 19 sight for the majority of the people. And 20 the industry, especially in the current 21 economic conditions require inside storage 22 isn't a responsible thing to ask a business 23 to afford. 24 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you.
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1 I will open it up to the Board. This is a 2 renewal of a previously granted variance. 3 Yes, go ahead, Mr. Cassis. 4 MEMBER CASSIS: Mizure Soulliere, poly 5 vu fran say. 6 MR. SOULLIERE: (Unintelligible). 7 MEMBER CASSIS: That's a beautiful 8 name. 9 MR. SOULLIERE: Thank you. 10 MEMBER CASSIS: French name, right? 11 MR. SOULLIERE: Yes. 12 MEMBER CASSIS: I have been easy on 13 people all night. I am going to give you a 14 little hard time. I visited your place last 15 summer or last spring. I was looking for 16 that red small stone. What is it called? 17 MR. SOULLIERE: It's probably a red 18 Lava. 19 MEMBER CASSIS: A red Lava. How come 20 you don't have it? 21 MR. SOULLIERE: We were out that day. 22 MEMBER CASSIS: It seems like you are 23 handling the big boulders mainly; is that 24 right?
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1 MR. SOULLIERE: They are being 2 requested. We have been slowly trying to 3 take out the larger, the stones that creates 4 more dust. The boulders has less dust. We 5 are trying to hone down a little bit of 6 that, that's our goal there, more 7 palletized. It was brought up last time up 8 to a few more years, they said there were 9 some issues, some questions about 10 conformance, soil not grading and stuff like 11 that. So, they said we'll make it two years 12 so that we could see if you keep your nose 13 clean, and I believe we have. 14 We have tried to keep it nice. We've 15 put in some newer management to try to perk 16 it up a little bit. We want to keep it 17 looking nice there. It is an area that 18 hardly anybody gets down there. It is a 19 nice place for the locals to go to. They 20 come in without driving all over town, get 21 their product, get in. We are getting a lot 22 more retail people that are looking. And we 23 do help them out with a variety. It's more 24 of a display of what we can get them and we
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1 ship it in from our other facility out of 2 Utica. 3 So, we try to keep it up there just 4 for the people that need to come there. 5 And, you know, we hope to, you know, keep 6 tightening it up to products that people 7 want and just deliver it to them out of the 8 main warehouse. 9 MEMBER CASSIS: That's exactly the 10 answer, but thank you. The thing I was 11 trying to suggest and I injected a little 12 humor into it is that you would think, now I 13 had to go to Lyon Township to get some of 14 that stone, and they have two varieties. 15 One they had them in bulk in a coral kind of 16 a thing, I don't know what you call it, a 17 different base. 18 MR. SOULLIERE: Correct. 19 MEMBER CASSIS: That they can scoop 20 and keep it clean. And they were very 21 clean. I think you know that outfit down 22 Grand River. But they also had it in bags. 23 I bought the bags. And you would think that 24 if you branch into that kind of -- you know,
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1 which you might get more business. I'm not 2 trying to tell you what to do. 3 MR. SOULLIERE: Yeah. And some of 4 that can be moved into the building, so 5 that's kind of our thing, the more 6 palletized item, less bulk, dusty materials 7 I can get it inside a building or contained. 8 We did the screening walls. We did the 9 evergreen belts. We have done things to 10 minimize the impact of anybody seeing it and 11 I haven't really had too many people that 12 really -- the only comments I had is, where 13 are you? Because I don't know where you 14 are -- 15 MEMBER CASSIS: And one last thing if 16 I may interrupt. I don't want to take the 17 time. But I had to have a car wash after 18 going to your place. 19 MR. SOULLIERE: You think they could 20 pave that road? 21 MEMBER CASSIS: Because of the dust. 22 MR. SOULLIERE: (Unintelligible). 23 MEMBER CASSIS: Anyhow, I would vote 24 for this extension. It's actually like an
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1 extension. 2 And I would I think go along with an idea of 3 no more than a couple to three years. Thank 4 you, Mr. Chairman. 5 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. 6 Cassis. And going back to the business of 7 the ZBA. Anybody else would like to make 8 any other comment? Yes? 9 MEMBER CASSIS: And I promised you 10 9:30 tonight so I will abide. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes? 12 MEMBER IBE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 13 Mr. Soulliere, you said something that was 14 quite interesting and I would like you to 15 help me understand it. I think if I may 16 paraphrase you you said down the road, I am 17 just making sure. I am not sure if you have 18 used that phrase before before this Board. 19 Last time you were here (unintelligible), I 20 told the party that it was like a musical 21 chair that you play when you come to this 22 Board. The City asked you if this was a 23 temporary thing that you were doing and your 24 response was down the road. It appears down
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1 the road means that you don't have any 2 concrete plans, that's how I take it. Could 3 you please tell me what are your more 4 concrete plans other than this down the 5 road, you know, read between the line kind 6 of stuff? I would like something more 7 substantial. 8 MR. SOULLIERE: Within five years I 9 would like to say I would like to have 10 everything set in place. And that's with 11 buying the -- what I have done is purchasing 12 there, and they have inside storage of their 13 granite and stone which they were in the 14 tributary down on Grand River, they have 15 gotten out of it which opens up the 16 opportunity to do an inside showroom. That 17 was the hardest part is there was one down 18 there and there is still Dwyers down there, 19 but we would like to further explore and to 20 create that and that's my plan. 21 It's not to have a landscape supply 22 yard but a stone supply yard. And those are 23 all conducive to inside storage climate 24 control and traffic. And when the economy
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1 comes back I am ready to do something. And 2 I have already made big improvements in my 3 Utica area because the area I had was 4 available. So, I am done with that and I am 5 working on my next down the road plans which 6 is Novi. 7 MEMBER IBE: Do you think that if we 8 follow the suggestion of the City and allow 9 you a two-year extension, that perhaps, I 10 know that you will be back in two years, 11 would you say that you probably will have 12 this down the road plan? 13 MR. SOULLIERE: I would have a site 14 plan and I would have either started or 15 maybe I would be in front of the Board, but 16 I, knock on wood, hope that the economy 17 within two years we are going to be there. 18 You know, I'm an optimist and products that 19 I sell are good values and I think people 20 could always use a good value. 21 MEMBER IBE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. 23 Ibe. Yes, Mr. Ghannam? 24 MEMBER GHANNAM: I just have a couple
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1 of questions for you, sir. What do you 2 store outside specifically? 3 MR. SOULLIERE: We have paving stones 4 primarily on pallets. We do have large flat 5 stones that they do landscaping with. A 6 very limited amount of colored stone, some 7 mulch and primarily that's it. Then we have 8 a large building garage that we keep our bag 9 material and another garage that we keep 10 other product inside wherever we can. So, 11 primarily we haven't expanded at all. We 12 have been trying to tighten it up a little 13 bit more than anything and just, you know, 14 good moving products, palletized materials 15 or things that eventually I can move whether 16 it be a cold storage or something along that 17 line. 18 MEMBER GHANNAM: These are not the 19 type of things you could store within your 20 building facility right now? 21 MR. SOULLIERE: Not currently, no. It 22 takes a bit of space and I would have to 23 have a pretty elaborated plan to -- it would 24 be a huge building.
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1 MEMBER GHANNAM: The reason why I ask 2 you this question is, to me the standard 3 that you have to establish in this case is 4 what we call an unnecessary hardship, it's a 5 higher standard than say like a sign case, 6 but it doesn't seem the type of standard 7 that can be continued year after year. 8 Either you change zoning and you use it for 9 what you intend or just store everything 10 inside. That's what it seems to me. I 11 mean, I wouldn't have a problem supporting 12 it for a couple of years given the current 13 situation that you have been doing business 14 and you have been granted all of these 15 variances. But all I'm saying is like 16 Member Ibe has suggested, at some point -- 17 and this is not the type of thing that 18 should be continued year after year or those 19 types of periods. It should be either 20 zoning change or the motive in the way you 21 operate your business should change in terms 22 of moving these things indoors. But I would 23 be support of couple of years. 24 MR. SOULLIERE: What I hope I would be
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1 able to do is to get through phases to erect 2 some buildings, move more and more inside 3 and minimize any of that impact. And there 4 is different ways of doing it having the 5 larger bins with doors that still allow you 6 to open the doors to get into these type of 7 products, but not dump it inside. There is 8 environmental issues, dust, you know, 9 wellbeing of people. 10 MEMBER GHANNAM: Which is why you 11 need to consider if you want to do business 12 outdoors, then go to City Council and get 13 your zoning issues taken care of so that 14 whatever zoning you would need for this 15 would be conducive to your business if they 16 agree. They are the ones who wrote the 17 rules, we just work with unusual 18 circumstances. 19 MR. SOULLIERE: And this area was 20 a real bad area when I bought it. It was 21 tired. It was a mess. And I have spent a 22 lot of energy and time and I was just 23 renting it, cleaning it up, abiding by it. 24 And we have been trying along the way. And
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1 I just purchased it just a few years ago. I 2 was just under a rental. 3 MEMBER GHANNAM: And I understand. 4 MR. SOULLIERE: And now I have 5 committed to buying this and making the 6 necessary improvements. 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, anybody 8 else? My only comment would be that I only 9 know about kidney stones, (unintelligible) 10 stones, gallstones. I don't know about any 11 other stone. But, anyway, would anybody 12 like to make a motion? Let's get on with 13 the business. 14 MEMBER GHANNAM: I will go ahead and 15 make a motion. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead, Mr. 17 Ghannam. 18 MEMBER GHANNAM: Thank you. I'll go 19 ahead and move that in Case Number: 09-012 20 for 26940 Taft Road 21 for Stone City of Novi that we grant a 22 two-year extension of their current variance 23 for this outdoor storage as it has been 24 doing for the present time. I think under
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1 the circumstances how they have done in the 2 past, and given the state of its current 3 operation, it would be an unnecessary 4 hardship for a limited period of time. That 5 at this time the property cannot be 6 reasonably used for the purposes permitted 7 in the zoning district. There are unique 8 circumstances peculiar to this property not 9 to the general neighborhood conditions. The 10 variance would not alter the essential 11 character of the area and that the 12 proponent's problem is not self created. 13 MEMBER IBE: I will second that. 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: The motion has 15 been made and seconded. Any further 16 discussion? Seeing none, will you please 17 call the roll, Mr. Boulard. 18 MR. BOULARD: Member Bauer? 19 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 20 MR. BOULARD: Member Cassis? 21 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 22 MR. BOULARD: Member Ghannam? 23 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 24 MR. BOULARD: Member Ibe?
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1 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 2 MR. BOULARD: Member Krieger? 3 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 4 MR. BOULARD: Member Skelcy? 5 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 6 MR. BOULARD: Chairman Sanghvi? 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 8 MR. BOULARD: Motion passes 7-0. 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Congratulations 10 to you. 11 MR. SOULLIERE: Thank you. I will 12 start working on those. Thank you. 13 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All right, 15 moving on. Next one is Case Number: 09-013 16 filed by Euko Design Signs, Incorporated for 17 47440 Grand River Avenue, Comerica Bank. 18 Will you please identify yourself. Give your 19 name and address and if you are not an 20 attorney be sworn in by our Secretary. 21 Thank you. 22 MR. DIACHENKO: Eugene Diachenko, Euko 23 Design Signs. That's 24849 Hathaway, 24 Farmington Hills, Michigan.
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1 MEMBER BAUER: Raise your right hand. 2 Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth 3 regarding Case: 09-013? 4 MR. DIACHENKO: Yes, sir. 5 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you, sir. 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. 7 MR. DIACHENKO: Board Members, with 8 today's poor economic climate and extremely 9 competitive nature of the banking business 10 we are requesting adding on a 21 foot square 11 wall sign matching the other two existing 12 ones on the Tower of Comerica Bank. 13 In identifying the building to the 14 public it will give them the ability to see 15 the bank's location more easily thus 16 allowing proper slow down time to be able to 17 enter the north complex road safely. 18 Currently TCF Bank the neighbors to the 19 north have pre-existing wall signs giving 20 them a distinct advantage which we feel if 21 we were granted the variance would give us a 22 level playing field. So, I feel that this 23 request is a fair and equitable one. 24 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. Is there
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1 anybody in the audience who would like to 2 address the Board regarding this case? 3 (No response.) 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing 5 none. Mr. Boulard, the Building Department? 6 MR. BOULARD: Thank you. In this case 7 the new building, the bank building would be 8 by right allowed one sign. The size of 9 which would be based on the setback from the 10 road. In this case being that the structure 11 is fronted on two thoroughfares, they are 12 allowed two signs. And that's the basis of 13 the two approved signs currently on the east 14 and south basis of the tower. 15 The proposed sign is a third sign 16 which would be on the north. So, if there 17 are any questions I would be happy to 18 assist. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Mr. 20 Bauer, are there any correspondence? 21 MEMBER BAUER: Thirty-nine notices 22 were mailed out. Nine returned. No 23 responses. 24 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. I
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1 will open it up to the Board. 2 MEMBER SKELCY: Mr. Chairman? 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, go ahead. 4 MEMBER SKELCY: Mr. Boulard, I had a 5 question about the TCF Bank having three 6 signs. Do you know if that was the subject 7 of a variance in the past? 8 MR. BOULARD: I don't know that. I 9 don't know the history or whatnot for the 10 sign, I'm sorry. 11 MR. DIACHENKO: The size of those are 12 approximately four foot by eight foot, about 13 32 square feet. 14 MEMBER GHANNAM: Mr. Chair? 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead, Mr. 16 Ghannam. 17 MEMBER GHANNAM: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 18 The problem I have with this, sir, is that I 19 presume you have received one variance for 20 the second sign on the building already? 21 MR. DIACHENKO: No, sir. We went 22 through the proper recording procedure. 23 MEMBER GHANNAM: Do you have any 24 monument signs on the premises?
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1 MR. DIACHENKO: No, sir. 2 MEMBER GHANNAM: The proposed sign, 3 you want it to be the same size and 4 character as the two existing signs? 5 MR. DIACHENKO: Correct. Exact 6 duplicates, yes. The gutter would have to 7 be re-arranged so we are not too far off the 8 wall. 9 MEMBER GHANNAM: I understand that. 10 When was this building built? 11 MR. DIACHENKO: I think it opened less 12 than 30 days ago. 13 MEMBER GHANNAM: I guess my question 14 is why wasn't this done in the process when 15 the land was purchased and -- 16 MR. DIACHENKO: Because somebody from 17 corporate saw the bank next door having 18 three signs and told us to go through the 19 steps. 20 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yeah, I know. I can 21 appreciate that. The problem I have with 22 all these signs on the building is, I mean, 23 the object is not to have it seen from every 24 single possible angle. I know other
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1 applicants have come in and said they want 2 it on every single side that there is a road 3 and I don't blame them necessarily, but I 4 guess the question becomes does it meet our 5 standards. 6 MR. DIACHENKO: There is difficulty 7 with people going southbound on Beck Road 8 seeing the bank physically. There is no 9 idea until they are literally right next to 10 the wall sign facing west, so it becomes a 11 visual difficulty. So, it does give them 12 sufficient time to slow down to enter the 13 service door coming in. 14 MEMBER GHANNAM: I don't have any 15 other questions. Thank you, sir. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Cassis? 17 Oh, I'm sorry. Mr. Bauer, you go next. 18 MEMBER BAUER: Did you by chance get a 19 written approval from the owner of the 20 properties? 21 MR. DIACHENKO: No, we didn't, I'm 22 sorry. 23 MEMBER BAUER: We will have to have 24 that before anything is done.
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1 MR. DIACHENKO: Okay. 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, thank you. 3 Mr. Cassis? 4 MR. CASSIS: This one I am going to be 5 a little bit more tougher on this one. 6 Sorry, I mean, I have been lenient all 7 night. I feel, I feel we cannot just keep 8 going, putting three signs all over the 9 place. It's got to stop somewhere, that's 10 number one. 11 Number two, a bank is not a 12 restaurant, it's a destination kind of 13 operation. If I want to go to Chase Bank, I 14 look up in the Yellow Pages or whatever on 15 my computer, where is it located I go to 16 that bank. 17 I doubt that a third sign is going to say, 18 oh, this guy is driving down, oh, that's a 19 Comerica bank, I better go in. That's not 20 the way banks operate. Now, whoever in top 21 management told you I am jealous, tell him 22 you are in the banking system. You should 23 be sophisticated enough to know that 24 Comerica is one of the biggest and most
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1 capable banks in our community and you don't 2 need a third sign. Tell them I told you. 3 I will not approve a third sign. 4 Thank you. 5 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, all right. 6 Anybody else? I see no comments coming. 7 Would anybody like to make a motion? Nobody 8 wants to make a motion or say anything. 9 It's a tough night here. 10 Well, as far as I am concerned 11 personally, I saw the same thing which 12 everybody else saw, and I think it would be 13 good for the patients in the hospital to 14 find out where Comerica Bank is, but 15 otherwise I don't see any need for a third 16 sign on the tower myself. And that's about 17 it. Okay. 18 MEMBER BAUER: Sounds like a proposal 19 here. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. Are 21 you going to make a motion? 22 MEMBER GHANNAM: I'll make another 23 motion tonight. 24 MEMBER CASSIS: You are the motion
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1 maker. 2 MEMBER GHANNAM: In Case Number: 3 09-013 for 47440 Grand River Avenue, Euko 4 Design Signs, Inc., on behalf of Comerica 5 Bank I am going to move that we deny the 6 proposed sign variance as requested because 7 under the circumstances of this particular 8 case, the features of the property are not 9 exceptional or unique and do not result in 10 conditions that generally exist in the city. 11 In this case you are allowed two signs 12 because it is a single business on a corner 13 and I guess they chose at that time which 14 corners they wanted them. 15 I know they may see other businesses, but we 16 can't comment on those and how they may have 17 been approved. But I don't think in this 18 particular case another sign coming from the 19 north or the south would be beneficial. 20 Certainly the failure to grant relief will 21 not unreasonably prevent or limit the use of 22 the property and will not result in 23 substantially more than a mere inconvenience 24 or inability to attain a higher economic or
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1 financial return. It will not result, the 2 denial will not result in the use of a 3 structure that is incompatible and 4 unreasonably interferes with the adjacent or 5 surrounding properties. I think the denial 6 will be not be inconsistent with the spirit 7 of the Ordinance. 8 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second. 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: The motion has 10 been made and seconded. Who seconded that 11 is Ms. Krieger. Anybody further discussion? 12 Seeing none, would you please call the roll, 13 Mr. Boulard. 14 MR. BOULARD: Member Bauer? 15 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 16 MR. BOULARD: Member Cassis? 17 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 18 MR. BOULARD: Member Ghannam? 19 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 20 MR. BOULARD: Member Ibe? 21 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 22 MR. BOULARD: Member Krieger? 23 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 24 MR. BOULARD: Member Skelcy?
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1 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 2 MR. BOULARD: Chairman Sanghvi? 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. Thank you. 4 Sorry, sir. 5 Moving on, last but not least 6 right from the beginning. 7 MEMBER KRIEGER: Just to confirm as 8 you were previously discussing in previous 9 cases that I am an employee of Providence 10 but I am a lesser employee according to 11 previous discussion I believe? 12 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 13 MS. KUDLA: Well, I not had been here 14 for the lesser employee discussion, but. 15 MEMBER KRIEGER: I thought you were 16 the one that told me. 17 MS. KUDLA: I think Tom Schultz must 18 have been here. Tom Schultz was here during 19 the last Providence. I would say it would 20 be best if you abstain from this. 21 MEMBER KRIEGER: Okay. I would like 22 to recuse myself. 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. You 24 are being recused. Well, you can always go
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1 home then. 2 MEMBER KRIEGER: Good. 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 4 MS. KUDLA: We can do a motion to 5 approve her abstaining, yes. 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 7 MEMBER BAUER: So moved. 8 MEMBER GHANNAM: I'll second that. 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, the motion 10 has been made and seconded. All those in 11 favor say aye? 12 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All those 14 opposed same sign. Okay, you are excused. 15 Oh, he is already there. You want to 16 identify yourself? I don't know why, but 17 identify yourself. Give your name and 18 address and get sworn in by -- 19 MR. LUTZ: My name is Bill Lutz with 20 SignGraphix at 39255 Country Club Drive, 21 Farmington Hills, Michigan. 22 MEMBER BAUER: Do you swear or affirm 23 to tell the truth regarding case: 09-010? 24 MR. LUTZ: Yes, sir, I do. Well, you
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1 all are pretty much familiar with Providence 2 Hospital. It is a signature building. It 3 is the only hospital in the City of Novi. 4 We think it's a real community attraction. 5 We know that a lot of people come to cities 6 to live because of schools. An equal 7 number come to live because of the hospitals 8 and the health care that the community 9 provides. This is a signature property. 10 It's 200 acres. Consist of many, many 11 buildings. We have tried to do our very 12 best to sign this campus at the entryways to 13 get people in the right entryways, but if 14 you don't you have got quite a long distance 15 around to the opposite side. What we have 16 not done is sign this building. This is the 17 only hospital I think in the entire 18 metropolitan area of Detroit that does not 19 have a sign on the building. 20 So, the poor people in the banking 21 centers on the other side of the road can't 22 tell that there is a hospital across the 23 street. We think this is too bad because it 24 is a prominent feature in the City of Novi.
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1 It's mentioned about 54 times on your 2 website. We know that you are proud to have 3 Providence as a community member and 4 neighbor. They have been there for a long, 5 long time and I think it's something to brag 6 about if you will and something to let 7 visitors know that we have a world class 8 health care system right here in Novi. 9 So, I think it's time to put a sign on 10 the building. Unfortunately the City of 11 Novi is no different than any other city, 12 there has never been an Ordinance written 13 that I am aware of for a campus type 14 environment. It is very difficult to write 15 those kinds of Ordinances because there are 16 two many variables. 17 We have many buildings on this campus. 18 Everything from stand alone hotel to medical 19 office buildings to what was the old 20 facility which is now offices and 21 administrative offices and physician offices 22 as well as the full service hospital. So, 23 there is no way to know on this big piece of 24 property that we really have a hospital
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1 there from any kind of distance and that's 2 what we really need. 3 So, our photo studies have kind of 4 indicated the only way to do that really -- 5 I don't know if we can make this work in 6 this kind of configuration here, we will 7 see. This is a shot and this is a photo 8 study. One of the ways that we do these 9 studies is to take actual photographs of 10 what your eye would see at particular spots 11 along the road. 12 This is the approach from the 13 expressway coming off of Beck Road heading 14 south. As you come off the exit ramp from 15 96 this is the first view you have. Now, 16 it's not really easy to see in this 17 photograph unfortunately because of the 18 light here. But if you were to look, you 19 are going to see Staple signs. You are 20 going to see all kinds of signs for all 21 these buildings and there is no way to 22 distinguish this building in the back here 23 from any other building. 24 So, without that sign up there and you
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1 can barely see it in this photograph, I 2 think if the lighting was right and we 3 didn't have the ambient light here you 4 probably would be able to see it a little 5 bit better. Those are 48 inch letters which 6 is about the minimum size that we can 7 actually see from that distance. And this 8 is about 1,200 -- no, I'm sorry, that's not 9 correct. It's about 2,200 feet. Let me get 10 my distances right. From that particular 11 spot it's about 2,200 feet to the hospital. 12 That's a long way. So, you are barely going 13 to be able to see a 48 inch letter from that 14 distance. 15 This is the only place that we can 16 sign this building. Because of the unique 17 nature, I said this a signature building, 18 architecturally it's very interesting, it's 19 very different. It has a lot of different 20 paneling on it. We tried to make it 21 different than an office building, if you 22 will, so the design was well thought out. 23 But that sign right there is also 24 about as large as you can possibly get and
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1 still identify the hospital and take out the 2 space between vents. That's the only 3 location on that entire building that you 4 can put any kind of logo really that's going 5 to be seen from that vantage point. We 6 think it's necessary to sign this hospital 7 and let folks know that you have a hospital 8 here. There is an awful lot of visits to 9 this campus every day. There is about a 10 1,000 parking spots that turn over six to 11 eight times a day. There is 1,200 employees 12 on this campus every day. We think it's 13 high time that we had an identification sign 14 so that people know there is a hospital 15 there. 16 That's been one of the feedbacks that 17 we have gotten from physicians consistently 18 is folks say, gosh, we know it's here 19 somewhere, but where is it? And they are 20 looking for a long range way finding tool to 21 get them there. It's a very confusing 22 landscape. You know, people say it's a big 23 building you should know what it is. It's a 24 big building, but without a sign they really
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1 don't know what it is. 2 The Ordinance doesn't allow for it 3 because the Ordinance is not written for a 4 campus environment, multiple buildings, 5 multiple types of traffic. This will be the 6 only sign on this campus on the building. 7 Questions? 8 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: You want to go 9 on to the next one? 10 MEMBER SKELCY: I have a question. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. 12 MEMBER SKELCY: I was curious as to 13 why you didn't apply for a variance for the 14 building when it was first built because I 15 know you had a number of other variances for 16 signage around that facility? 17 MR. LUTZ: Well, that's a valid 18 question. Any sign on this campus requires 19 a variance and we felt it was necessary 20 initially to identify the entrances first 21 and do that. The decision about identifying 22 the hospital did come up, in fact it came up 23 in conversations as early as two or three 24 years prior to construction of the hospital
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1 during the planning stages and we talked 2 about it. The initial thought was let's 3 wait until later, see what happens, see if 4 we really need it. It's an expensive 5 proposition. As you know, health care is -- 6 they are squeezing dollars like everybody 7 else here these days, so if it wasn't 8 necessary we didn't want to put the cart 9 before the horse. We addressed what we 10 thought were the most urgent concerns first, 11 Which was patient traffic. Let's try to get 12 them to the campus in other ways. If that 13 doesn't work we'll look at building signage. 14 I would say normally building signage 15 is probably the last thing. We are 16 consultant for a number health care 17 facilities throughout the Metropolitan area. 18 Building signage is the last thing that is 19 addressed and we have had to go back 20 numerous times and talk to cities and 21 municipalities about building signage. 22 There seems to be an emphasis to work on the 23 ground signs first, get people to the right 24 entrance, get people to the parking lots.
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1 There are numerous parking lots within this 2 facility This is a 200 acre campus. This is 3 a large campus. So, managing the traffic is 4 the primary concern. You always hope that 5 the traffic will come without signage, but 6 sometimes it doesn't always work that way. 7 In this case we are creating 8 a lot of confusion by really not getting 9 folks -- this is a very confusing 10 intersection. When we started working with 11 this campus, gosh, almost 20 years ago now, 12 this was in the middle of a field. In fact, 13 it was in the middle of a golf course. 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: In fact it was 15 my golf course. Kidding apart, thank you 16 very much. Is there anybody in the 17 audience, I don't see very many other 18 people, but I have to go through motion, who 19 would like to address the Board regarding 20 this? 21 (No response.) 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing 23 none, Building Department? 24 MR. BOULARD: The staff report
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1 mentions a couple of things. Number one, 2 there is a second variance request that 3 obviously the City Attorney has suggested 4 that we do them one at a time. But I just 5 wanted to make sure that everyone was aware 6 that those are both going to be in close 7 proximity. 8 Also, there is a rundown in the staff 9 report about the previous variances and what 10 they are for. So, if there are any 11 questions I would be happy to assist. 12 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Mr. 13 Bauer, do you have any correspondence 14 regarding this? 15 MEMBER BAUER: There were 79 notices 16 mailed, 17 came back no response. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, very good. 18 Thank you. Open it up for the Board. 19 Before doing that, I might make my own 20 personal comment. And that is, I don't see 21 any advantage of having this particular sign 22 that high in the sky, but I will leave it to 23 the Board to decide. 24 Go ahead, Mr. Ghannam.
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1 MEMBER GHANNAM: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 2 Sir, I was born at Providence Hospital, not 3 your new one, but the old one and I don't 4 hold that against you, you guys have done a 5 great job. I think for all the reasons that 6 you stated, I think you be are absolutely 7 right. This is a very unique circumstance. 8 It is a campus. It is a huge hospital. It 9 is a major attraction. We all know it's 10 there, your staff knows it's there, the 11 employees do, but there is certainly a lot 12 of people hopefully that you will attract in 13 the surrounding areas that may not know 14 exactly where it's at on given situations, 15 maybe emergency and so forth. I think 16 absolutely, it's like having a Ford Building 17 without identifying Ford as their 18 headquarters and so forth. So, I think this 19 type of sign would meet our standards in 20 terms of what you would have to establish. 21 So, I would be willing to support it. 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Ibe? 23 MEMBER IBE: I would like to echo the 24 words of my colleague who just spoke. I
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1 think a building of this magnitude deserves 2 to have a signature name on it. I think 3 that having a signature name on it is like 4 having a well sewn Italian suit and you 5 decide to put on a tie that was sold at 6 K-Mart with it. You have to have a 7 signature to go along with the building. 8 And to echo what you said, my kids and I 9 drive down this intersection three times a 10 day. On our way to school back and forth 11 and to other programs. When you come off 96 12 and Beck, you have to get to Beck road to 13 know that Providence Park is right there. 14 You can't see it. I mean, you see the big 15 building but you don't know what it is. You 16 have to approach it to know exactly where 17 you are going. 18 But I think with a sign there you can 19 see it and say, oh, that's the hospital 20 right there. And that makes more sense. I 21 am incline to support this as well. 22 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Cassis? 24 MEMBER CASSIS: I usually want to talk
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1 a lot, but since my colleagues already took 2 my time I won't talk as much. You have 3 deprived me of it. But I go along with what 4 was just said. That this is such a huge 5 edifice, a huge building and most hospitals 6 really have that kind of a signature on it. 7 All the hospitals I have been to and I have 8 been to many of them. As was just said, 9 it's your signature, it can be seen from 10 far. 11 Also I'm very concerned about the 12 emergencies. We should not take a chance 13 for any reason whether there is two other 14 signs or four other signs, if there is one 15 more sign that can save a life, and I may be 16 stretching it here, but you never know. 17 Somebody coming off the freeway, they had a 18 heart attack and they don't even know. I 19 mean, we are familiar with Providence and we 20 know where it is. But how about that lady 21 that had a brain tumor and had suffered a 22 hemorrhage by Brighton, which my wife knew, 23 and she had to go all the way down to 24 Providence down there. She died
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1 subsequently. But I hate to bring that up, 2 but I think to illustrate my point that if 3 our trauma center now has been there three 4 years ago, four years ago when this incident 5 happened, this lady would be coming out on 6 I-96 and she would see the big sign out 7 there. So I am tempted to go along with my 8 colleagues and approve this. Thank you, Mr. 9 Chair. 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Yes, 11 Mr. Bauer? 12 MEMBER BAUER: I used your facilities 13 this last year, sorry to say. Very good 14 emergency technicians. I think you do need 15 a nice sign up there. Even with all the 16 others sometimes you have to have, well, 17 this is mine. So, I would vote for it. 18 MR. LUTZ: Thank you. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Can I entertain 20 a motion from somebody? 21 MEMBER GHANNAM: Sure. 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. It's 23 your night tonight. 24 MEMBER GHANNAM: I'll go ahead and
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1 move in case number: 09-010 at 47601 Grand 2 River, Providence Park Hospital that we 3 approve their proposed sign as proposed. I 4 believe that they have met the standards. 5 The sign variance being practical 6 difficulty. The request is based on 7 circumstances and features that are 8 certainly exceptional and unique to this 9 particular property and don't result from 10 conditions that generally exist in the city 11 or that are self created. The failure to 12 grant relief will unreasonably prevent or 13 limit the use of the property and will 14 result in substantially more than mere 15 inconvenience or inability to attain a 16 higher economic or financial return. And 17 the grant of relief will not result in the 18 use of structure that is incompatible or 19 unreasonably interferes with adjacent or 20 surrounding properties. It will result in 21 substantial justice being done to both the 22 Applicant and the adjacent or surrounding 23 properties. And is certainly not 24 inconsistent with the spirit of City's
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1 Ordinance. 2 MEMBER CASSIS: Second. 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: The motion has 4 been made and seconded. Any further 5 discussion? Seeing none, Mr. Boulard, 6 please call the roll. 7 MR. BOULARD: Mr. Chairman, who second 8 that? 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Mr. Cassis. 10 MEMBER CASSIS: I seconded. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All right, go 12 ahead. 13 MR. BOULARD: Chairman Sanghvi? 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 15 MR. BOULARD: Member Skelcy? 16 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 17 MR. BOULARD: Member Ibe? 18 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 19 MR. BOULARD: Member Ghannam? 20 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 21 MR. BOULARD: Member Cassis? 22 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 23 MR. BOULARD: Member Bauer? 24 MEMBER BAUER: Yes.
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1 MR. BOULARD: Motion is approved 6-0. 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Congratulations. 3 Let's get on with the next one. 4 MR. LUTZ: Okay, this request is a 5 little different, and frankly every sign 6 that we have put up and we have talked with 7 staff every time we have put up a sign on 8 this campus that was not going to be visible 9 or be seen from Beck or Grand River Road. 10 The staff has said we are not concerned with 11 that sign and that was true of every entry 12 identification sign that we put up of all 13 the smaller directional signs on the campus. 14 This sign is not meant to be seen nor can it 15 be seen from Beck Road. 16 This sign is a result and is 17 there to recognize the beginnings and a 18 major grant, a multi-million dollar grant 19 that was made by the Vaneslander family who 20 is a long time supporter of Providence 21 Hospital to establish a neuroscience center, 22 a world-class neuroscience center here at 23 Novi for both in-patients and out-patients. 24 This is meant to be viewed from the ring
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1 road. These letters are only 21 inches. 2 They are not meant to be viewed from Beck 3 Road nor can they be. I have actually done 4 a photo study and, frankly, I can show it to 5 you and you won't be able to see the letters 6 on the wall. At night you may be able to 7 see kind of some sparkly white, but you will 8 not be able to read the letters. They are 9 just too small. From 1,200 feet away this 10 is about as close as you are going to see 11 this. And I suspect in a couple of years 12 when all the trees grow up that have been 13 planted, you will not be able to see that 14 facade, that portion of the building. 15 This is at the second level of the 16 hospital, upon that architectural detail 17 there. They will be lit at night. But, 18 again, you will not be able to see this from 19 Beck road. So, the interpretation here in 20 coming before the Board this evening is a 21 little bit new and different because we have 22 not had to request variances for any wall 23 signage over entries or on building walls 24 that couldn't be seen from the public roads.
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1 We need this. We need to recognize 2 this donor. This is a substantial gift. 3 This is one of the ways that hospitals are 4 being funded today. This probably started 5 to change 10 or 15 or 20 years ago. We 6 really started to notice it within the last 7 10 years. Without the philanthropy of local 8 donors and local business people that have 9 made major grants to a number of hospitals 10 in this area, we would not see the 11 world-class facilities that we see today. 12 So, we are very dependent on these folks and 13 they have been very generous and we need to 14 recognize them and let people know that we 15 have a world-class neuroscience center here 16 at Providence Hospital in Novi. Again, it's 17 meant for people that are already on the 18 campus. And to recognize this donor but 19 specifically to mention the neuroscience 20 center. 21 There are a number of world-class 22 facilities here. We have a cancer center 23 that's by virtue of a large donor also. 24 This is part of how health care business has
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1 to be done today. 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Are you done? 3 MR. LUTZ: For the moment. 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 5 Again, going through the motions, I don't 6 think there is anybody in the audience who 7 wants to say anything about this case, but 8 now is the time for anybody who wants to. 9 (No response.) 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. 11 Building Department? 12 MR. BOULARD: Nothing to add. 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Nothing to add. 14 Thank you. Mr. Bauer -- 15 MEMBER BAUER: Would you raise your 16 right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell 17 the truth regarding case: 09-015? 18 MR. LUTZ: Yes, sir, I do. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: 20 (Unintelligible). He is always here and he 21 is always under oath. 22 Anything in the correspondence? 23 MEMBER BAUER: Sixty-nine notices sent 24 out. Twelve returned. No response.
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1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 2 Thank you. Now, I am opening it up to the 3 Board. Yes, Mr. Ghannam? 4 MEMBER GHANNAM: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 5 I just have a few questions. I understand 6 the sign is to identify donors and so forth 7 and what type of services you are offering, 8 but is this also to signify an entrance to 9 that particular area? 10 MR. LUTZ: No, it's not. It's meant 11 as general informational only. And that's 12 why it's up high on the building. It's kind 13 of at the corner of the building where an 14 entrance isn't. We tried to really separate 15 it and get it away from major entrances so 16 it wouldn't necessarily be confusing because 17 it's not really to identify a particular 18 entrance. 19 MEMBER GHANNAM: Where is that 20 neuroscience center actually located in 21 relationship to the sign? 22 MR. LUTZ: Well, it depends on whether 23 it's an in-patient neuroscience situation or 24 an out-patient. And they are by virtue of
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1 the different kinds of care in two different 2 areas. But there is a major in-patient 3 neuroscience facility within this building. 4 So, again, we are not trying to identify an 5 entrance, more of awareness than anything 6 else. 7 MEMBER GHANNAM: There is the services 8 and who the potential donor is? 9 MR. LUTZ: Correct. 10 MEMBER GHANNAM: I tend to agree with 11 you also. I think it's very important that 12 this type of organization identify very 13 generous donors and certainly to advertise 14 what type of specialities or subspecialities 15 you have. So, again, I would tend to 16 support this also. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. Mr. 18 Cassis? 19 MEMBER CASSIS: Just one question. 20 How many other departments do you have here? 21 If I have two million dollars I want to give 22 to you will you put my name? 23 MR. LUTZ: We need to talk. 24 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: It's a very
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1 expensive sign. 2 MEMBER CASSIS: I tend to be asking 3 them sometimes in jest, but it is important. 4 I mean, how many times can you put -- 5 MR. LUTZ: No, it's a legitimate 6 question, Mr. Cassis. This is a substantial 7 donation. There are a lot of donations that 8 have been made to the hospital and they have 9 been recognized in lesser ways. If you go 10 into the lobby there is an entire wall of 11 donors that have made substantial donations 12 but to a lesser extent than this. This is a 13 very specific donation. 14 I would say if I go back into my 15 personal history about how health care donor 16 recognition has happened, we see within the 17 metro area in the last 20 years very few of 18 this type of thing, so it's not like we are 19 talking about plastering the entire building 20 with donors. 21 MEMBER CASSIS: The reason I ask this, 22 and I am going to vote for it, but I think 23 my colleagues here have treated the same 24 kind of questions in the same manner, is,
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1 look, you have come before us before. Now 2 you are coming again, you want one more. 3 And I am trying to find out whether there is 4 going to be another philanthropist that you 5 are going to put another sign on the same 6 building. Now, mind you if you built 7 another building you may want to do that 8 again. 9 MR. LUTZ: Well, there are other 10 opportunities. This is a big building. 11 There are some that are less obvious. We 12 would love to see another donor with this 13 kind of a thing. This is an unusual 14 circumstance. This is not something that we 15 see on a regular basis. We have a history 16 with a lot of health care and we have not 17 seen a lot of this size donation. 18 MR. ABBOTT: Hi, I am Rick Abbott with 19 Providence Park Hospital, 47601 Grand River. 20 MEMBER BAUER: Do you swear or 21 affirm to tell the truth regarding case: 22 09-015? 23 MR. ABBOTT: I do. 24 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you.
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1 MR. ABBOTT: I need to answer the 2 concern. We would be so thankful if we had 3 another donor come forward with this type of 4 a gift. We would be back here again I can't 5 lie to you. But we already have recognition 6 of the Assarian Cancer Center which is one 7 of our featured services of excellence. We 8 have our Heart Institute and that's 9 identified (unintelligible). So, we have 10 kind of taken the opportunities and have 11 used those to provide some signage and 12 acknowledgement of those programs, but it 13 could happen again. 14 But I want to also bring up that 15 we were on the agenda last month, this is to 16 address your question concerning these. We 17 had the building sign on the agenda last 18 month, the one that was just earlier 19 approved. And our concern with going 20 forward with that at that time was that this 21 opportunity had just come up after we had 22 filed that petition and we didn't want to 23 create that circumstance where we are coming 24 back here one month after another and tell
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1 you what's the next thing that is going to 2 be coming forward. So, we consciously 3 withdrew that last petition, deferred it to 4 this meeting so that both of these could be 5 brought forward and you could see that this 6 is a pretty complete plan for us at this 7 time. Maybe something will come forward but 8 we don't anticipate anything in the 9 immediate future. 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 11 MEMBER CASSIS: May I just say that 12 this is really not your usual kind of staff 13 cannot support because of so on and so 14 forth. This is a unique kind of situation 15 and I think most hospitals that I have been 16 really aware of, they do those things. They 17 put signature names on buildings of big 18 donors, and not just to honor those people, 19 but also to identify that you do have a 20 neuroscience center, so that's an additional 21 kind of icing on the cake if I may say. So, 22 it does in a sense serve a couple of 23 purposes here and I just hope that that 24 donation was big.
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1 I would go along and approve this. 2 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I wasn't going 4 to say this, but now that Mr. Cassis started 5 going with it, I have been in this business. 6 I left medical school in 1956. I have been 7 around for a long time and these events 8 don't happen very often and they must be 9 recognized. I have no problem with it at 10 all. And I am so glad you are recognizing 11 it. And I am so glad we are going to within 12 two minutes approve it I have no doubt. 13 Thank you. 14 I would entertain a motion if nobody 15 has anything further to add. 16 MEMBER IBE: I will make a motion so 17 that I can give my colleague a break. 18 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 19 MEMBER IBE: In case number: 09-015, I 20 move that we approve the Applicant's 21 petition for a variance to erect a 107 foot 22 square foot wall sign on the south end of 23 the northeast elevation for Providence Park 24 Hospital located at 47601 Grand River Avenue
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1 for the reasons that the request is based 2 upon circumstances or features that are 3 exceptional and unique to the property and 4 will not result from conditions that exist 5 generally in the City or that are self 6 created. 7 Secondly, that a failure to grant 8 relief would unreasonably prevent or limit 9 the use of the property and will result in 10 substantially more than a mere inconvenience 11 or inability to attain a higher economic or 12 financial return. And last, that a grant of 13 relief will not result in use of structure 14 that is incompatible with or unreasonably 15 interferes with the distant surrounding 16 properties and that it is consistent with 17 the spirit of the Ordinance. 18 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, the motion 20 has been made and seconded. I don't see any 21 further discussion, will you please call the 22 roll. 23 MR. BOULARD: Member Bauer? 24 MEMBER BAUER: Yes.
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1 MR. BOULARD: Member Cassis? 2 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 3 MR. BOULARD: Member Ghannam? 4 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 5 MR. BOULARD: Member Ibe? 6 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 7 MR. BOULARD: Member Skelcy? 8 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 9 MR. BOULARD: Chairman Sanghvi? 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 11 Congratulations. 12 MR. LUTZ: Thank you very much. I 13 appreciate your time and patience. 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: That more or 15 less concludes today's business. If there 16 is nothing further to come up before the 17 Board then I will entertain a motion to -- 18 MEMBER BAUER: So moved. 19 MEMBER IBE: Second. 20 MEMBER KRIEGER: Third. 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Motion has been 22 made to adjourn and seconded. All of us say 23 aye (unintelligible). 24 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.
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1 (The meeting was adjourned at 2 9:41 p.m.) 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
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1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 3 4 5 I, Mona L. Talton, do hereby certify 6 that I have recorded stenographically the 7 proceedings had and testimony taken in the 8 above-entitled matter at the time and place 9 hereinbefore set forth, and I do further 10 certify that the foregoing transcript, 11 consisting of (121) typewritten pages, is a 12 true and correct transcript of my said 13 stenographic notes. 14 15 16 17 18 19 _____________________________ 20 Mona L. Talton, 21 Certified Shorthand Reporter 22 23 24 April 29, 2009
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