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MEETING - ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Proceedings had and testimony taken in the matters of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, Tuesday, October 13, 2009. BOARD MEMBERS ALSO PRESENT: REPORTED BY: 1 Novi, Michigan 2 Tuesday, October 13, 2009 3 7:00 p.m. 4 - - - - - - 5 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Good evening. I 6 would like to call to order the October 13, 7 2009 meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals 8 for City of Novi. 9 Mr. Wrobel, would you kindly lead us 10 in the pledge of allegiance. 11 BOARD MEMBERS: I pledge allegiance to 12 the flag of the United States of America and 13 to the republic for which it stands, one 14 nation under God indivisible with liberty 15 and justice for all. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Ms. 17 Martin, will you please call the roll. 18 MS. MARTIN: Member Bauer? 19 MEMBER BAUER: Present. 20 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Sanghvi? 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Here. 22 MS. MARTIN: Member Wrobel? 23 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Here. 24 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam?
4 1 MEMBER GHANNAM: Here. 2 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 3 MEMBER KRIEGER: Here. 4 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 5 MEMBER IBE: Present. 6 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis? 7 MEMBER CASSIS: Here. 8 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: That's you. 9 MEMBER CASSIS: I said here. 10 MS. MARTIN: Oh, okay, I'm sorry. I 11 didn't hear you. 12 And Member Skelcy will be absent 13 tonight. 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you, Ms. 15 Martin. We do have a quorum and the meeting 16 is now in session. 17 I would like to go over the rules of 18 conduct. Just a friendly reminder to please 19 turn off all your cell phones and pagers. 20 Individual applicants may take up to five 21 minutes and groups may take up to ten 22 minutes to address the Board. 23 Zoning Board of Appeals is a hearing 24 board empowered by the Novi City Charter to
5 1 hear appeals seeking variances from the 2 application of the Novi Zoning Ordinances. 3 It takes a vote of at least four members to 4 approve a variance, and a vote of the 5 majority of the members present to deny a 6 variance. Tonight we have a full Board so 7 all decisions made will be final. 8 Let's look at agenda. Are there any 9 changes to the agenda? 10 MS. MARTIN: No, there is not. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: May I have a 12 motion to accept the agenda as presented? 13 MEMBER BAUER: So moved. 14 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Second. 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. All 16 those in favor of accepting the agenda 17 please signify by saying aye? 18 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All opposed same 20 sign. Very good. Now we have an agenda. 21 We do have minutes also. Are there 22 any changes, additions, deletions, omissions 23 to the minutes? Seeing none, I would 24 entertain a motion to approve the minutes.
6 1 MEMBER BAUER: Move to approve the 2 minutes of September. 3 MEMBER IBE: Second. 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All those in 5 favor please say aye? 6 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All those 8 opposed same sign. 9 Thank you. At this point the meeting 10 is open for public remark section. Anybody 11 in the audience may address the Board 12 regarding any subject other than the items 13 on the agenda. 14 (No response.) 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing none, 16 we'll close the public remarks section, and 17 move on to our first case on the agenda. 18 Is the Applicant here? Will you 19 please come forward, identify yourself. 20 Give your name and address, and if you are 21 not an attorney please be sworn in by our 22 Secretary. 23 MR. MITSEFF: I am not an attorney. 24 MEMBER BAUER: Would you raise your
7 1 right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell 2 the truth regarding case: 09-038? 3 MR. MITSEFF: Yes. 4 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 5 MR. MITSEFF (ph): My name is Joseph 6 Mitseff. My address is 2541 Commerce in 7 Commerce Township, and I am here on behalf 8 of Singh Management for the item. Mike Kahn 9 is the one who sent in this request for the 10 two-year extension of the real estate sign 11 for Main Street Phase II. He could not be 12 here today so I was asked to come forward. 13 The request for the real estate sign 14 which is in the packet is basically -- is a 15 need base request. The property, Phase II, 16 has not surpassed 80% occupancy this entire 17 year. It's been at -- obviously you all 18 know as Mike says in his letter, it's very 19 tough, a very tough market. We continue to 20 have a slow down in international traffic 21 which has been one of the lifelines for Main 22 Street Village in the past. There is common 23 misconception for many of Singh properties, 24 especially Main Street Village that it is a
8 1 condominium community. And to have some 2 sort of sign present on the property that 3 identifies it has apartments or townhomes is 4 very helpful. 5 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: That's it? 6 MR. MITSEFF: That's all I have. 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Just to remind 8 the people at home, we are talking about 9 case number: 09-038 at 25300 Constitution in 10 Main Street Village. The Petitioner is 11 requesting an extension to the variance of 12 ZBA08-034 to allow the continued placement 13 of the existing real estate sign located 14 south of Potomac Drive in Main Street 15 Village. 16 Is there anybody in the audience who 17 would like to address the Board regarding 18 this case? 19 (No response.) 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing none, 21 we'll close the public remark section. And 22 Mr. Boulard? 23 MR. BOULARD: I have nothing to add 24 beyond the comments in your packet, with the
9 1 exception of noting that the entrance to the 2 development is quite a ways off of Grand 3 River and off of Novi Road. 4 And then lastly, one question. I 5 understand this is a leasing community and, 6 so, there is always going to be vacancies, 7 and I guess my concern is there is repeated 8 extensions and variances and so on. Is 9 there an end date in sight? 10 MR. MITSEFF: Typically if we can get 11 to a sustained occupancy of 90% and try to 12 maintain that occupancy, I would say there 13 would no longer be a need. We have not 14 achieved that type of occupancy at that 15 property. 16 MR. BOULARD: Nothing else. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Mr. 18 Secretary, do we have any correspondence 19 regarding this? 20 MEMBER BAUER: No, we don't. We have 21 22 mailed notices. Three returns and no 22 response. 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. Then 24 I will open this up to the Board for
10 1 discussion. 2 You know, the sign has been around for 3 quite a few years and have had a few 4 previous extensions. And sometimes I wonder 5 whether it is effective to have your other 6 sign at all. Does it do anything for you, 7 the one sign on Main? 8 MR. MITSEFF: Sure it does. Like I 9 said, people who do visit the downtown area, 10 the Post Bar, they do see that sign. And 11 also like I said, when people drive into the 12 community, and it is seen once you drive 13 into the community rather than being outside 14 of the community, you are immediately hit 15 with it that they are apartments or they are 16 townhomes. They are not condominiums. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Yes, 18 Mr. Cassis? 19 MEMBER CASSIS: Thank you, Mr. 20 Chairman. You know, in the letter that the 21 Petitioner has sent us, he concludes that, 22 "Unfortunately now that the auto industry is 23 downsizing, a significant amount of the 24 transferee market has dried up further
11 1 aggravating the leasing and marketing 2 efforts. The occupancy rates have fallen 3 over the past year." 4 Needless to say, this has been going 5 on for quite a while and it's all over. 6 It's taking place all over our town, all 7 over the state. But if we do not allow this 8 Petitioner to put that sign in the area, 9 what's the alternative? The alternative is 10 that he cannot lease the spaces and, 11 therefore, we have a worse situation in our 12 city. Now, I know our -- Mr. Boulard there 13 says, you know, you keep having extensions. 14 Well, economic conditions in this state and 15 in this city have been having extensions, 16 extensions. So, Mr. Chairman, due to that 17 really chronic situation that we are 18 experiencing in this state and in our 19 community, I would be voting for this. 20 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Yes, 22 Mr. Bauer? 23 MEMBER BAUER: What's your percentage 24 now of occupancy?
12 1 MR. MITSEFF: Phase II is about 78%. 2 Phase I is slightly above that, 81%. 3 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Wrobel? 5 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you, 6 Mr. Chair. This is very similar to the 7 request that Mr. Kahn came before us for the 8 senior housing at the Twelve Oaks Mall. 9 Multiple times with extensions because the 10 occupancy rate is not at the desired level. 11 I understand the market and I know you need 12 to get it out there. But at that time we 13 gave him a suggestion in that case, and I 14 will give you the same suggestion this time. 15 Why don't you try to incorporate this 16 information for leasing on your monument 17 sign out front. That would eliminate the 18 need for this sign in the future. I would 19 seriously like you to consider that. I 20 could go along with an extension this time, 21 but next time this -- you know, we have four 22 already, this would be the fifth extension. 23 And as was mentioned, when does extension 24 become a permanent sign basis?
13 1 MR. MITSEFF: Certainly. And I 2 understand that and I was here last time 3 when Mr. Kahn was talking about Walden at 4 Twelve Oaks. And I do remember those 5 remarks, and they didn't fall on death ears. 6 We are talking about -- obviously there is a 7 cost that goes into that kind of thing, but 8 we are trying to come up with ways to better 9 identify our communities as rental 10 communities within our monument sign. 11 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 12 That's all, Mr. Chair. 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 14 Yes, Mr. Ghannam? 15 MEMBER GHANNAM: I also have an issue 16 with the timing and the multiple requests. 17 However, I would be willing to grant an 18 extension, but you mentioned two years in 19 your presentation. I personally would not 20 go along with that. I would consider a 21 one-year extension just like you received in 22 the past. 23 MR. MITSEFF: Okay. 24 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. Do I
14 1 entertain a motion from somebody? Go ahead. 2 MEMBER GHANNAM: I will go ahead and 3 make a motion, Mr. Chair. In case number: 4 09-038 for 25300 Constitution, I would move 5 to approve the sign as requested for a 6 period of one year. Although it wasn't 7 mentioned in the presentation, we did 8 receive information in the packet showing 9 that this is a little bit of unusual 10 circumstances in terms of positioning of the 11 sign as well as the property. So, 12 therefore, it's based on circumstances of 13 features that are exceptional and unique to 14 the property. The failure to grant relief 15 would unreasonably prevent or limit the use 16 of the property, and will result in 17 substantially more than a mere 18 inconvenience. And that the grant of relief 19 will not result in the use of a structure 20 that is incompatible with or unreasonably 21 interferes with adjacent properties. 22 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: The motion has 24 been made and seconded. Do I see any
15 1 further discussion? Seeing none, Ms. 2 Martin, will you please call the roll. 3 MS. MARTIN: Member Bauer? 4 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 5 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis? 6 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 7 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 8 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 9 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 10 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 11 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 12 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 13 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Sanghvi? 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 15 MS. MARTIN: Member Wrobel? 16 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 18 MR. MITSEFF: Thank you. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 20 Moving on to the next case, case number: 21 09-039, 26050 Novi Road, Novi Town Center. 22 The Petitioner is requesting a variance to 23 allow installation of one additional 58 24 square foot wall sign on the east elevation
16 1 of the multi tenant building located at 2 26050 Novi Road for AT&T. The property is 3 zoned TC and located north of Grand River 4 and east of Novi Road. 5 Is the petitioner here? Would you 6 please come forward and -- yes, Mr. Wrobel? 7 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Mr. Chair, I 8 will put this out to my fellow Board 9 members. I am an employee of AT&T and if 10 you desire I will recuse myself from this 11 case. 12 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: As far as I am 13 concerned AT&T has hundreds of employees and 14 I don't think this is going to make any 15 difference in your decision-making process, 16 but I will leave it to the rest of the 17 Board. 18 MS. KUDLA: I would say a motion to 19 recuse is in order. 20 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 21 MEMBER GHANNAM: I will move to have 22 Member Wrobel recused. 23 MEMBER IBE: I will second. 24 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All those in
17 1 favor say aye? 2 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, we will 4 see you in a few minutes. Thank you. 5 MEMBER BAUER: But don't go home. 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Would you please 7 identify yourself, state your name and 8 address, and if you are not an attorney be 9 sworn in by our Secretary, please. 10 MS. DEMLOWE (ph): I am not an 11 attorney. 12 MEMBER BAUER: Raise your right hand. 13 Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth 14 regarding case: 09-039? 15 MS. DEMLOWE: I do. My name is Carrie 16 Demlowe. I work for Allied Signs. My 17 address is 33650 Giftos Drive, Clinton 18 Township, Michigan. 19 I am here before you today to request 20 a variance for a second sign at the AT&T 21 store located on Novi Road. We recently 22 installed the letter set that is fronting 23 Novi Road, and the second letter set that we 24 are requesting for is on the east elevation
18 1 which would have visibility coming, going 2 westbound on Grand River and then within the 3 shopping center. The banner was installed, 4 so I am sure that all of you have already 5 driven by it and got a chance to look at it. 6 The basic hardship would be the lack, 7 the obvious lack of visibility coming off of 8 Grand River going westbound, and then within 9 the shopping center. 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: That's it? 11 MS. DEMLOWE: That's it. 12 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Is 13 there anybody in the audience who would like 14 to address the Board regarding this case? 15 (No response.) 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing none, we 17 will close the public remark section. Mr. 18 Boulard? 19 MR. BOULARD: Thank you. This is a 20 request similar to the Bagger Dave's request 21 and several others that we have seen 22 previously. These are buildings where the 23 frontage is on Novi Road, or some of the 24 adjacent ones is on Grand River, but the
19 1 actual entrance is on the other side. So, 2 it's not dissimilar to previous variance 3 requests you have seen. 4 One housekeeping note. The 5 application that you have in your packet 6 does not show the property owner's 7 signature, but I believe the original that's 8 in the Chairman's packet now has that. So, 9 that issue is resolved. 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. Thank 11 you. Mr. Secretary, do we have any 12 correspondence? 13 MEMBER BAUER: Seventy-two notices 14 were mailed. Six returned. One approval. 15 "We have no problem with the 16 additional sign. In today's economic 17 climate businesses need all the help they 18 can get." And that is from Novi Auto Parts. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 20 I will open it up to the Board. 21 Yes, Mr. Ghannam? 22 MEMBER GHANNAM: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 23 Is this a move from the other location on 24 Grand River, the AT&T store?
20 1 MS. DEMLOWE: You know, I'm not really 2 sure. I heard you guys talking about that 3 before the meeting had started and I'm not a 4 hundred percent sure if they are moving or 5 exactly what their plan was. Or maybe that 6 one is a company owned one and this is a 7 franchise one. I'm not -- 8 MEMBER GHANNAM: This is a wireless 9 store? 10 MS. DEMLOWE: Yes, an AT&T wireless 11 store, yes. 12 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yeah, there is one on 13 the opposite side of Grand River on the 14 southeast corner maybe a block off of Novi 15 Road. Also, the two signs will be identical 16 obviously, correct? 17 MS. DEMLOWE: Yes. 18 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yeah, also as Mr. 19 Boulard mentioned there has been a number of 20 businesses at that corner and it is a very 21 unusual corner and there is very heavy 22 traffic going both ways. So, I don't see 23 any problem with the sign as requested. I 24 think it is within the same type of
21 1 circumstances of surrounding businesses and 2 that, so I would be willing to support it. 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. All 4 right. 5 MEMBER CASSIS: Just a clarification. 6 Mr. Boulard, do you know more than this lady 7 knows about whether those people are moving? 8 Or would this be the third sign for AT&T 9 within 50 feet? 10 MR. BOULARD: I don't know what the 11 status is of the store's ownership. I would 12 assume that AT&T would not want their stores 13 within 50 feet of each other. But I can't 14 say for sure. 15 MEMBER CASSIS: Well, she mentioned a 16 very significant fact. I know there was a 17 franchisee in Twelve Oaks Mall and they just 18 shut down. So, this could be a franchisee 19 while across the street is the main AT&T 20 outlet. I have a problem with three signs 21 within 50 feet of each other, I really do. 22 Because how much can you expose AT&T in that 23 corner? I would like more clarification on 24 it.
22 1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 2 Anybody else? Yes, Mr. Bauer? 3 MEMBER BAUER: Would you prefer 4 holding off on this until we find out? 5 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes, I mean, that's 6 what I would like to know. I mean, if they 7 are moving, then my deliberation would take 8 a different course. But if it is three 9 signs now for AT&T, not for a franchisee 10 with a different name, but it's the same 11 company. That's what troubles me. And you 12 should have known, I would say, I mean, 13 didn't you put the other sign too? Are you 14 the people that put the other sign? 15 MS. DEMLOWE: We did the one that's 16 existing at this location that we're talking 17 about. As far as knowing what AT&T's plan 18 is with other stores that we have had 19 nothing to do with, I wish I could tell you, 20 but I really have no information. And I am 21 not privy to information like that as far as 22 their moving plans and what they are doing. 23 It is something that, though, that if it's 24 dependent upon the decision we could
23 1 certainly find that out for you. That's 2 just a matter of asking the end client, 3 AT&T. 4 And just as a general rule of thumb 5 when they go out and look for sites or scout 6 sites out, I would find it hard to believe 7 that they would not close one if they are, 8 in fact, that close. That just doesn't make 9 good business sense. 10 MEMBER CASSIS: You see, Mr. Chairman, 11 that's the clue for me to indicate that 12 these are two different parties. Because if 13 it was the same AT&T, they would have 14 indicated some way to Mr. Boulard or to the 15 City that this is what's happened. That we 16 are moving or we have a second store. But 17 when we have a franchisee and AT&T and now 18 we have three signs for the same company, 19 I -- thank you, Mr. Chair. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: You are 21 welcomed. 22 MEMBER CASSIS: My colleagues might 23 have different opinions. 24 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. I have a
24 1 question for you. Is there any way for us 2 to find this out? 3 MS. KUDLA: Well, unfortunately it's 4 not something that I can check property 5 records for because it's a lease and leases 6 generally are not recorded, so it's not by 7 any standard means could we find out. It 8 would require some just calling and 9 voluntary information giving on the part of 10 AT&T. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. So, there 12 you are. You have a choice to make now. 13 Either we table this and find out about it, 14 or deny it at this meeting. Because I have 15 a feeling that the group is not going to 16 have three signs just so close to each other 17 for the same particular establishment. So, 18 which way would you like us to go? I am 19 just giving you an option. 20 MS. DEMLOWE: I guess we'll have to 21 table it because if I go back to them and 22 say they denied it, and that is, in fact, 23 the case, then I'm going to find myself in a 24 world of hurt.
25 1 But, just to the same point. I 2 completely understand where you are coming 3 from, but like I said before, it's just not 4 something that they would naturally just 5 say, hey, this is what our plans are as far 6 as their general operations. We get the 7 location, the information, this is what we 8 want you to do, and that's what we run with. 9 And that's the information that you have 10 before you. 11 MEMBER CASSIS: Mr. Chairman, if I may 12 say. 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. 14 MEMBER CASSIS: I see your predicament 15 and I am sorry that we have to go through 16 that procedure, 17 at least I do. I don't know about 18 eventuality. But, you see, the 19 proliferation of signs, I mean, we have to 20 somehow just control that situation to a 21 certain degree. And we have been generous. 22 We have been generous with many of the 23 applicants. You saw what we did just a 24 moment ago. And let me repeat for the
26 1 record because my microphone wasn't on. 2 But, you know, I am sorry that we put 3 you through this, at least I am, but we've 4 got to be a little bit more discriminatory 5 in how many signs we can put out there for 6 the same person. Thank you. 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Yes, 8 Mr. Bauer? 9 MEMBER BAUER: Can you find out for 10 us? 11 MS. DEMLOWE: Oh, yeah, that should 12 definitely not be a problem. I mean, the 13 client that we have is the sign 14 manufacturer, but the end client, it should 15 just be a matter of calling them up and 16 talking to them, because even if it was a 17 franchise versus a corporate owned, I 18 wouldn't image that they would just let them 19 get franchised and not know what it is they 20 are doing. 21 MEMBER CASSIS: How can they compete 22 with AT&T across the street? 23 MS. DEMLOWE: Yeah, right -- 24 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Unless they are
27 1 moving to one place and close the other 2 place that we don't know about. So, I think 3 we need to have little more information than 4 what we have. And I would entertain a 5 motion to table this. 6 MEMBER BAUER: Motion to table and 7 have the gal from the sign company find out 8 for us for this next meeting. 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. We will 10 see you again next -- 11 MEMBER IBE: Second. 12 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All those in 13 favor of -- yes, Mr. Boulard? 14 MR. BOULARD: Excuse me. In order to 15 keep from having to re-notice this again if 16 it would be possible to table it to the next 17 meeting. 18 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: That's what we 19 are talking about. 20 MR. BOULARD: Do you know the date of 21 that meeting? 22 MS. MARTIN: November? December? 23 MR. BOULARD: November. 24 MS. MARTIN: November 10th.
28 1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: So, I will 2 entertain a motion to table this to the next 3 month's meeting. 4 MEMBER BAUER: So moved. 5 MEMBER IBE: Second. 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seconded by Mr. 7 Ibe. I don't believe there will be any 8 further discussion, so will you please call 9 the roll. 10 MS. MARTIN: Member Bauer? 11 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 12 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis? 13 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 14 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 15 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 16 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 17 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 18 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 19 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 20 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Sanghvi? 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 22 Okay, we will see you next month with 23 some more information. Thank you. 24 MS. DEMLOWE: November 10th, right?
29 1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. Thank you. 2 All right. Moving on to the next 3 case. This is case number: 09-041 at 44455 4 Grand River Avenue for Wrenchers. The 5 Petitioner is requesting minimum lot area, 6 front and side yard parking, overhead door 7 facing major road, parking setback and 8 parking space variances to permit an 9 automobile service facility in an existing 10 tenant space in a building located at 44455 11 Grand River Avenue. The property is zoned 12 I-1, light industrial and is located at the 13 southeast corner of Grand River Avenue and 14 Lannys Road. The building is designed to 15 accommodate more than one tenant and is 16 currently partially occupied by Tim's Glass 17 and Marino Cutlery. 18 Is the Applicant here? Would you 19 please come forward and identify yourself, 20 give your name and address. And if you are 21 not an attorney please be sworn in. If you 22 are the only one who is going to be talking, 23 then you should be the only one who would be 24 sworn in. If anybody else is going to be
30 1 participate they might as well be sworn in 2 right now. 3 MR. HOFFMAN: My name is Stefan 4 Hoffman, I'm the architect, 22339 Roberts 5 Drive, Northville, Michigan. 6 MR. BAKER: My name is Roy Baker I 7 reside at 479 River Ridge in Waterford 8 Township. I am the Applicant. 9 MEMBER BAUER: Raise your right hand. 10 Do swear or affirm to the truth regarding 11 case: 09-041? 12 MR. HOFFMAN: I do first. 13 MR. BAKER: I do. 14 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All right. Go 16 ahead and make your presentation. 17 MR. HOFFMAN: I am here with owner, 18 Mr. Baker and his three partners and the 19 landlord of the building. And these 20 gentleman as the tenants wanted to open up a 21 very exclusive high end automobile repair 22 business. It doesn't cater to just brakes 23 or mufflers or -- it caters to hundreds of 24 thousand of dollars worth of custom old hot
31 1 rods. So, in that respect we don't have a 2 lot of traffic. There is only four 3 gentlemen that are working in there, the 4 four partners. 5 The landlord also is a tenant of the 6 building, he owns Tim Glass who he also has 7 very little employees on site. And then 8 there is a kitchen equipment supply company 9 that basically has one employee. So 10 altogether the building is very lightly 11 occupied. 12 Currently it has all the overhead 13 doors facing the road as it was designed 14 back 35 some odd years ago. All the parking 15 is used in the front. The back is gravel 16 and not used but for deliveries and general 17 trailer use for the vehicles. We are 18 proposing to try to use the building with 19 the overhead doors as an integral part of 20 the business. We can't really change 21 architecturally or the site plan being that 22 it's shy of the required two acres, but we 23 are proposing to enhance the area, provide a 24 wonderful landscape and parking plan for the
32 1 front of the building. And when the use 2 arises for paving and using the back as 3 parking, we are proposing to do that at a 4 later date when we have the need for it. 5 Like I said, there is no public or 6 commercial mercantile people coming and 7 going. 8 Usually the tenants park and either go 9 off site with a van or otherwise. The 10 building is not really occupied by a lot of 11 tenants so we don't need a lot of parking. 12 Furthermore, you know, economic times don't 13 really allow the landlord to, you know, do a 14 lot for as come basis. We like to use it 15 as, and renovate the back as needed. So, 16 with that said, they have a great business. 17 They have a great plan. The tenant and 18 landlord have been there for many years and 19 we would like to improve the corridor with 20 the enhancement with a nice landscaping and 21 parking and maintain the use of the building 22 as it was designed. 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 24 Anything else? Is there anybody in the
33 1 audience who would like to address the Board 2 regarding this case? 3 (No response.) 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing none, we 5 will close the public remark section. And, 6 Mr. Boulard? 7 MR. BOULARD: Thank you. This is a 8 somewhat unique situation. You have got an 9 existing building with parking in the, 10 parking in the front adjacent to the 11 roadway. And, in fact, the roadway has, I'm 12 sure, become more widely used and heavy 13 traffic since the building was built. So, 14 you have got a business that wants to move 15 into this location. It requires a special 16 use and some other, some other requirements 17 be met, and it's difficult to do. So, in 18 your packet is a number of pages of review. 19 This project has been reviewed by the 20 Planning Staff. It has been to the 21 Commission for preliminary approval. And 22 Mr. Spencer is here if you have got any 23 questions regarding the interplay of the 24 variance request and the site plan approval,
34 1 or any other questions that would be 2 pertinent too. So, thank you. 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 4 Mr. Secretary, do we have any 5 correspondence? 6 MEMBER BAUER: There were 27 notices 7 sent. One return. No responses. 8 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 9 Before I open it up to the Board, I had a 10 question. What exactly is the nature of 11 your business there? 12 MR. BAKER: The nature of our 13 business, sir, is the repair and restoration 14 of classic automobiles and muscle cars. 15 Vehicles belonging to collectors. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. So, this 17 is not a bump shop for regular accidents and 18 all that kind of stuff? 19 MR. BAKER: No, sir. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 21 Okay, all right. I will open it up to the 22 Board. Yes, Mr. Bauer? 23 MEMBER BAUER: Is there present 24 parking in the front?
35 1 MR. BAKER: Yes. 2 MR. BOULARD: Yes. 3 MEMBER BAUER: That's all I have. 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Wrobel? 5 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Mr. Spencer, 6 since you cared to join us this evening I 7 wouldn't want you to miss your opportunity 8 to give us your perspective. 9 MR. SPENCER: Good evening. Well, in 10 our respect, this is an existing 11 nonconforming site. There are several of 12 them along Grand River as you are well 13 aware. The Applicant has proposed to 14 improve the site considerably in the front 15 and the side. We commend the Applicant for 16 doing that. And you saw in the packet 17 material that staff supported variances for 18 the use and the parking in the front setback 19 and parking on the side of the building. 20 The parking that's there in front of 21 the building now is not even the layout that 22 was presented on the site plan, it's 23 actually closer to Grand River Avenue. They 24 would be removing some of the green space in
36 1 front of the building and pushing the 2 parking a little bit closer to the building. 3 Therefore, they would have room to put a 4 landscape island in between the parking and 5 the street. So, those portions of the 6 variance as we mentioned in our staff review 7 we support it. 8 The parking space variance we did not 9 present an opinion on that, but I would say 10 a couple things on that at this time. The 11 rear area from our observations appears to 12 be used on a sporadic or a low use amount 13 for trailer or equipment storage, and 14 occasional vehicle passes. So, we don't see 15 a lot of use to that with the two current 16 businesses that are located there. The 17 Applicant is proposing some landscaping 18 screening from that rear yard which we also 19 think will be beneficial to the 20 neighborhood. 21 My only concern would be on granting 22 variances that if this is an automobile 23 repair place and some other automobile 24 repair place supersedes this business, that
37 1 you may have parking issues. It is 2 considerably, the amount of variance that 3 they are requesting is considerable, but 4 that's based on a typical automobile repair 5 place which as you know, usually when you 6 take your car into somebody to repair it 7 they say, well, I can get to it in a week. 8 It's hard to get it repaired that same day, 9 so there's typically vehicles stacked up in 10 the parking lot area for repair. And there 11 is also cars waiting to be picked up because 12 people may not have the money to pick it up 13 today. They got to wait until tomorrow if 14 they find out how much the bill is, et 15 cetera, et cetera. 16 We think that this particular business 17 could work very well on this site given the 18 low volume that we anticipate with this 19 site. Like I said, my only caution would be 20 some future repair shop in this location. 21 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 23 MEMBER GHANNAM: May I ask him some 24 questions, Mr. Chair?
38 1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. 2 MEMBER GHANNAM: Just a couple of 3 questions. Are there any issues from the 4 City's perspective regarding fire or safety 5 issues? 6 MR. SPENCER: Well, the fire and 7 safety issues would be taken care of through 8 the building permit process. They will 9 finalize building permits. The fire marshal 10 requires flammable liquids to be stored 11 safely. The volume of flammable liquids 12 that they propose to store there is very 13 minor compared to some garages, so we don't 14 anticipate any real problems. The fire 15 marshal has reviewed the plan. Before plans 16 are approved by the Planning Commission, the 17 fire marshal is one of the reviewers of our 18 site plan. 19 MEMBER GHANNAM: The second question 20 would be, if you're concerned about a 21 potential future business at this spot, 22 would you suggest that we, if we are going 23 to grant these variances, limit it to this 24 particular tenant for the duration of their
39 1 tenancy? 2 MR. SPENCER: I would say if our 3 attorney concurs that that's what you might 4 want to do with this particular business. 5 MS. KUDLA: That could be possible if 6 you wanted to do that. 7 MEMBER GHANNAM: I don't have any 8 other questions for you, sir. Thank you. 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. 10 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: If anyone 11 has any other questions? 12 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. Can I? 13 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Go ahead. 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, go ahead. 15 MEMBER CASSIS: Mr. Spencer, are you 16 privy as to whether there will be painting 17 of vehicles? And how, if such, how would 18 they handle the fumes and the noise from any 19 -- 20 MR. SPENCER: That's a very good 21 question. And we asked those questions to 22 the Applicant because the Zoning Ordinance 23 puts body shops in a different category. 24 This is not a body shop, a body shop where
40 1 they have to have extensive equipment, 2 ventilation systems. And typically we like 3 to see them located in our I-2 district. 4 MEMBER CASSIS: So, this is strictly 5 mechanical repair? 6 MR. SPENCER: Strictly mechanical 7 repair. I can't -- you know, I mean, maybe 8 if there is a scrape you get the spray paint 9 out or something, but that's not what we 10 call a body shop. 11 MEMBER CASSIS: Okay. 12 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. 13 Cassis. 14 MEMBER CASSIS: Thank you Mr. Chair. 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Wrobel? 16 Go ahead. 17 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 18 To the Applicant. How many vehicles can you 19 fit inside the body shop at one time? 20 MR. BAKER: Our business model 21 provides for four stalls, work stations if 22 you will. 23 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: The cars, 24 the incoming cars, outgoing cars, that was
41 1 mentioned that people may have to pick up or 2 waiting to be worked on, would those be 3 stored inside or outside? And if stored 4 outside, how many do you anticipate at one 5 time being outside? 6 MR. BAKER: The type of vehicles that 7 we're dealing with, I'm quite certain that 8 our clients would be very displeased with us 9 if we theft these vehicles outside. So, the 10 answer is, no, they are going to be inside 11 the building. 12 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: So, there 13 wouldn't be any additional parking required 14 for that? 15 MR. BAKER: No. 16 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 17 That's all, Mr. Chair. 18 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Anybody else? 19 Yes, Ms. Krieger? 20 MEMBER KRIEGER: I wanted to confirm 21 the screening in the rear from Grand River, 22 that you intended as well to put screening 23 around the back area since further down the 24 street there is more residential homes
42 1 there? 2 MR. HOFFMAN: We have arborvitaes 3 columnar along the whole side on Lannys 4 Drive. Not so much on Grand River. 5 MEMBER KRIEGER: Okay, thank you. 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, very good. 7 Anybody else? My question was what was the 8 exact nature of the work they will be doing, 9 and I think that has been adequately 10 answered by our questions. And I personally 11 don't see any problem with inviting a 12 business like that on Grand River myself. 13 But I would entertain a motion regarding 14 this case any time anybody is ready. Yes, 15 Mr. Ghannam? 16 MEMBER GHANNAM: I will go ahead and 17 make a motion, Mr. Chair. I will go ahead 18 and move in case number: 09-041 for 44455 19 Grand River Avenue for Wrenchers, that we 20 approve the six variances that were 21 requested, and I won't list each and every 22 one of them, but I would do that for a 23 number of different reasons. Number one, I 24 think all the issues regarding setback and
43 1 frontage and so forth, density requirements 2 unreasonably prevent the use of the property 3 for the permitted purpose. The variance 4 will provide substantial justice to 5 petitioner and surrounding property owners 6 in the zoning district. This property is 7 unique in terms of the way it's situated. 8 It's certainly not a self created problem. 9 There is no issues with light or air. 10 Problems to adjacent properties. Fire 11 danger or public safety issues will be 12 resolved through Planning Commission and so 13 forth. And no issues with regard to 14 property values in the area. And I think 15 the Zoning Ordinances would be observed. 16 I would also make it part of my motion 17 that we limit the variance to the duration 18 of this particular tenant and its tenancy. 19 In other words, if this tenant for some 20 reason leaves, the variance would terminate 21 upon the event. 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 23 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Second. 24 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: The motion has
44 1 been made and seconded. Any further 2 discussion? Yes, Ms. Krieger? 3 MEMBER KRIEGER: Mr. Spencer, did you 4 have something to add? 5 MR. SPENCER: This might be a little 6 unusual for me so speak at this time, but to 7 clarify my remarks, the only part of the 8 variance request that we felt that you may 9 want to condition would be the number of 10 parking spaces. The other variances for the 11 setback for the parking and the location of 12 those things we think that those don't need 13 to be conditioned on that occupant. Because 14 once they are in place underground they are 15 there. They are going to be there. So, you 16 don't want somebody else coming in to occupy 17 the building to be faced with variances that 18 were already created and underground. That 19 would be unnecessary for them to come in. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Your 21 point is well taken. 22 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Can I speak? 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I think the time 24 has passed for you to say anything.
45 1 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Just as the 2 owner. 3 MEMBER GHANNAM: Actually I had a 4 question for him. I wasn't sure what 5 condition you were referring to. 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: The parking. 7 MEMBER GHANNAM: Were you referring to 8 the condition for a variance for the parking 9 for this particular tenant? 10 MR. SPENCER: For this particular 11 tenant because my concern was if another 12 automobile repair place went in there that 13 had a greater parking demand, there would be 14 a shortage of parking spaces on this site. 15 MEMBER GHANNAM: I understand. 16 MR. SPENCER: The other variances I 17 think work good with the site. 18 MEMBER GHANNAM: I understand that, 19 and I will go ahead and adopt that and amend 20 my motion to reflect that suggestion. 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, very good. 22 So, the motion has been made and has been 23 seconded. And I don't see any further 24 discussion, so, Ms. Martin, would you please
46 1 call the roll. 2 MS. MARTIN: Member Bauer? 3 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 4 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis? 5 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 6 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 7 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 8 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 9 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 10 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 11 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 12 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Sanghvi? 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 14 MS. MARTIN: Member Wrobel? 15 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Well, 17 congratulations and best of luck. 18 MR. BAKER: Thank you. 19 MR. HOFFMAN: Thank you. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: That brings us 21 to the other matters. 22 Yes, Mr. Boulard? 23 MR. BOULARD: Real quick. You have 24 got the packet for the AT&T store, if you
47 1 would like to leave that and save the 2 copies. 3 Also, tomorrow evening at 6:30 is the 4 Master Plan Open House starting in here and 5 out in the atrium, so please let folks know, 6 and you are welcome to come. All the 7 contributions are very valuable. 8 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Is it a 9 formal presentation or just a come and see? 10 MR. BOULARD: It's very short, very 11 short discussion. 12 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. Anything 13 else? Yes, Ms. Krieger? 14 MEMBER KRIEGER: I would like for next 15 month meeting to be excused. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. 17 MEMBER KRIEGER: I am going south of 18 the equator. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: May I entertain 20 a motion to adjourn. 21 MEMBER BAUER: So moved. 22 MEMBER IBE: Second. 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: The motion has 24 been made and seconded. All those in favor
48 1 of the motion please signify by saying aye? 2 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All those 4 opposed same sign. Thank you. All right, 5 we are done for the evening. 6 (The meeting was adjourned at 7 7:45 p.m.) 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
49 1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 3 4 5 I, Mona L. Talton, do hereby certify 6 that I have recorded stenographically the 7 proceedings had and testimony taken in the 8 above-entitled matter at the time and place 9 hereinbefore set forth, and I do further 10 certify that the foregoing transcript, 11 consisting of (41) typewritten pages, is a 12 true and correct transcript of my said 13 stenographic notes. 14 15 16 17 18 19 _____________________________ 20 Mona L. Talton, 21 Certified Shorthand Reporter 22 23 24 October 13, 2009
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