|
View Agenda for this meeting
REGULAR MEETING - ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Proceedings had and Testimony taken in the matters of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, on Tuesday, July 12, 2011 BOARD MEMBERS ALSO PRESENT: REPORTED BY: Jennifer L. Wall, Certified Shorthand Reporter 1 Novi, Michigan. 2 Tuesday, July 12, 2011 3 7:00 p.m. 4 ** ** ** 5 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Good evening. Welcome to 6 the Tuesday, July 12th, 2011 Zoning Board of Appeals. 7 Please let's start with the Pledge of Allegiance. I 8 will have Member Krieger start us off, please. 9 (Whereupon the Pledge of Allegiance was 10 recited.) 11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. Ms. Pawlowski, 12 can you please call the roll. 13 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon? 14 MEMBER GEDEON: Here. 15 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam? 16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Here. 17 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe? 18 MEMBER IBE: Present. 19 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger? 20 MEMBER KRIEGER: Present. 21 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi? 22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Present. 23 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy? 24 (At 7:02 p.m. Member Skelcy was not present.) 25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. I'll go over a
4 1 few of the rules for our public hearing format. The 2 rules should be towards the back the room, you can take 3 a look at them at your leisure. Please turn off all 4 pagers and cellphones during the meeting. 5 The applicant or their representative will be 6 called upon to come forth and state their name and 7 address and be sworn by our secretary and present their 8 case. 9 Anybody who wishes to address the Board, 10 regarding the current case, will be asked by the 11 Chairperson to raise their hand to be recognized. 12 Next on our agenda is our approval of the 13 agenda. Are there any additions or modifications to 14 the agenda? 15 MS. PAWLOWSKI: No. 16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing none, I'll 17 entertain a motion to approve the agenda. 18 MEMBER SANGHVI: So moved. 19 MEMBER IBE: Second. 20 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any further discussion? 21 Seeing none, all in favor say aye. 22 THE BOARD: Aye. 23 CHAIMAN GHANNAM: Any opposed? Seeing none, 24 the agenda is approved. 25 We will move to the approval of the minutes
5 1 for our June 14th, 2011 meeting. Any additions or 2 modifications to that? 3 MS. PAWLOWSKI: No. 4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anything from the City? 5 MS. KUDLA: No. 6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I'll entertain a motion to 7 approve that then. 8 MEMBER SANGHVI: May I make a motion to 9 approve the minutes as presented. 10 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Second? 11 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second. 12 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Being moved and seconded, 13 all in favor say aye. 14 THE BOARD: Aye. 15 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any opposed? Seeing none, 16 our minutes of June 14th, 2011 are approved. 17 And I will ask anybody in the public who 18 would like to make a remark on a case -- or let me 19 restate that. 20 Anybody in the public who would like to make 21 a comment not on a case that's pending before the 22 Board, please raise your hand to be recognized. 23 Seeing none, I will move past the public 24 remarks, and move onto our first case. 25 Case No. 11-017, for 41100 Thirteen Mile
6 1 Road, Fox Run Village. 2 The applicant is requesting a variance to 3 allow the existing oversized project construction sign 4 to remain in the current location within the front yard 5 setback beyond the extended time period designated in 6 previous variances. 7 Will the applicant step forward. 8 Can you please state your name and address, 9 sir. 10 MR. GALVIN: Yes. My name, Mr. Chairman, is 11 Joseph Galvin. My address is 150 West Jefferson, Suite 12 2500, Detroit, Michigan. 13 I am here -- 14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Are you an attorney, sir? 15 MR. GALVIN: I am, yes. 16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Please proceed then. 17 MR. GALVIN: I am here tonight on behalf of 18 Fox Run. I am also here tonight with Fred Moschetta, 19 who is 10 years at the site, at the project, and Steve 20 Montgomery, who is 15 years with the parent company and 21 with Ken Weikel, who is behind me. 22 We're here tonight asking the Board to extend 23 a temporary variance for our existing temporary sign. 24 This is the sign (indicating). As you can see, it's 25 quite attractive. It stands -- the location of the
7 1 sign is where I'm indicating now on this drawing, you 2 should have in your packet, an identical drawing, so 3 you can look at that, or at this one (indicating). 4 While the notice for tonight said that this 5 was for an oversized sign, in fact, the existing 6 temporary sign is 10 feet, 10 square feet under that, 7 which is permitted for this type of setting. 8 But its continuation was subject to a series 9 of extensions, which have been granted by this Board 10 over a period of 10 years. 11 The city staff report indicates that in the 12 staff's judgment, 10 years is a long time to be 13 temporary. And that's why we are here tonight, to 14 explain to you why, at least, from our perspective, Fox 15 Run's, it is still a temporary sign, and in truth, why 16 we need it. 17 We're here tonight asking for your help. And 18 the basic reason that we are asking for your help is 19 that this temporary sign is the only sign that we have, 20 which is visible to a driver proceeding either from the 21 east, or the west by our property. 22 It's the only thing you can see, and you 23 don't see it too quickly. We have for you tonight, a 24 video, which we are going to run for you. If we could 25 have the lights brought down perhaps, which I'd do
8 1 myself, but I don't know how. 2 I really would like you to look at the 3 driver's perspective in the daylight, trying to pick up 4 where we are. You don't see it until you're 693 feet 5 from the entrance, don't see it at all. And all that 6 you see is this, the temporary sign. 7 Now you're within 252 feet, and I believe you 8 can barely see, although not read, both signs. 9 Now, going westbound, from M5, which is where 10 the bulk of our traffic comes from, you can barely see 11 the sign. 12 Now, remember the openness, you see off to 13 the right, that's the church and its properties. The 14 church has a frontage, which is somewhat like ours. 15 The first visibility, 1,362 feet, but you can't read 16 it. 17 Notice when you pass the church sign, how 18 visible it is, and this is an obvious reason. It is 19 the openness of the church's site. Our site is heavily 20 vegetated naturally. It is a physical issue caused by 21 the way our property has been maintained, both in its 22 nature state, and with respect to the City's sign -- 23 excuse me, the City's landscaping requirements. 24 Now you can see the two of them and while -- 25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: If you can speak into the
9 1 microphone, we would appreciate it. 2 MR. GALVIN: In any event, while you're 3 considering the visibility problem that we have, a 4 problem that, as I said, is caused by the shape of our 5 parcel, caused by its size. There are 110 acres there. 6 You have got the extensive frontage over 14, 1,500 7 square feet -- excuse me, feet, linear feet. You have 8 one allowable legal sign, that you can't see. You have 9 another sign, for which we have a variance, which we're 10 asking for the extension on, which you can see, but 11 can't read until you're almost on top of it, and ask 12 yourselves for a second, who is it that is looking for 13 our sign. Who are the people that we are trying to 14 attract from Thirteen Mile Road. 15 These people tend to be older persons. Their 16 vision is not terrific. And when you put this into the 17 context of night driving, it gets to be, frankly, very 18 frightening. 19 (Whereupon Ms. Skelcy was present at 20 approximately 7:05 p.m.) 21 MR. GALVIN: Now, from the perspective of 22 your ordinance, and we know we must come under it, we 23 believe that there are circumstances and features of 24 our property, specifically the vegetation on it, the 25 size of it, the frontage of it, that are unique to us.
10 1 We are not like anybody. We are not even like the 2 folks next-door, who have the same frontage, but they 3 have a completely open parcel. 4 Now, that was developed at a different time, 5 we all know that, when the requirements were different. 6 But our circumstances are unique. 7 Compare us to the church. Respectfully 8 submit, you will find that we meet the first criterion 9 under your ordinance. 10 The second criterion, it unreasonably limits 11 our use. We believe we are a part, an integral part of 12 the Novi community. 13 We believe that the services that will be 14 described to you in a minute, are unique. Other people 15 don't do what we do, for the persons who live at Fox 16 Run Village. This limitation is causing us more than 17 just an inconvenience or economic loss. Although, Lord 18 knows it has hurt us economically. We are still in a 19 process of building out the project, as you may or may 20 not know. We hope that we will be able to come in for 21 plans for a new building on the site, we hope, within 22 the next two years. 23 We believe that there is no question. Look 24 at the sign. There is no question that what's there is 25 physically compatible with everything that is around
11 1 it. It will do substantial justice to grant us the 2 variance. And we're certainly not inconsistent with 3 the sign ordinance, which is set up for parcels of all 4 sizes. On a parcel of our frontage, in a different 5 configuration of ownership, you could have 10 or more 6 signs in the same distance. It is an attractive sign, 7 it is proportionate. 8 So we ask that you allow us to continue our 9 variance. We ask that you do this for a period of time 10 sufficient for us to bring to you a plan for signage to 11 serve the property, to make it more visible under its 12 physical constraints. 13 Assuming this sign went away today, you 14 literally could not see that property soon enough to 15 stop, especially if you were an older person, looking 16 for it. Someone who didn't know it was there, would 17 have a very, very difficult time seeing you at all. 18 I know that all of you have driven on 19 Thirteen Mile Road. Think that. 20 In addition, as I said, the purpose of this 21 thing initially is for the construction and buildup of 22 Fox Run. It's not done. 23 So on those bases, we would ask that you 24 extend the variance. 25 Fred, would you explain to them what we do at
12 1 Fox Run, and why that in and of itself is unique. 2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I appreciate that, but, 3 before you get to it -- 4 MR. GALVIN: Yes, sir. 5 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I don't have any 6 questions. All I'm going to say is ordinarily you're 7 allowed -- the applicant is allowed five minutes to 8 present their case, with extensions at the discretion 9 of the Chair. I have no problem with that. So even 10 though you're going to speak, you have been going about 11 10, 12 minutes. 12 MR. GALVIN: I'm sorry. 13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: That's okay. Just be 14 brief is, all I'm saying -- 15 MR. GALVIN: We respectfully request an 16 extension. 17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: That's not a problem, but 18 just keep that in mind when you're going. State your 19 name and address, please. 20 MR. MOSCHETTA: Fred Moschetta, 42696 21 Faulkner Drive, Novi. 22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Are you an attorney, sir? 23 MR. MOSCHETTA: I am not. 24 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Please raise your right 25 hand, be sworn by our secretary.
13 1 MEMBER SKELCY: Do you swear or affirm to 2 tell the truth? 3 MR. MOSCHETTA: I do. 4 MEMBER SKELCY: Thank you. 5 MR. MOSCHETTA: I have been working at Fox 6 Run for 10 years now. And the average person who lives 7 at Fox Run is 82 years old. 95 percent of the people 8 who come to our campus, are coming east of our 9 property. And various activities that they're coming 10 for throughout the day are lectures, concerts, shows, 11 various events, parties. 12 We have families coming around the clock 13 visiting our people that live on our campus. And when 14 we have given directions out to people, the first thing 15 they ask for is, I don't know the area, what is a 16 landmark around you. 17 There are no landmarks for us to give. There 18 is just a lot of trees along Thirteen Mile. And in 19 many ways that's an appeal for people, but for our 20 customers coming on property, they're looking for 21 landmarks to find our entrance. 22 Many of them go past it. They have to pull 23 over, turn around. That's unfortunate for them as 24 well. 25 All of you have this chart in front of you as
14 1 well, that shows our growth, or unfortunate lack of 2 growth over the years, in lieu of the local economy and 3 housing market. 4 Without that sign, I would hate to think what 5 else could happen. Driving by Thirteen Mile, without 6 that sign defining who Fox Run is, people aren't going 7 to know what we are as well. There needs to be some 8 type of signage there, describing what the Fox Run 9 community is, being a very unique property as well. 10 We have close to 1,000 people living on our 11 campus, again, 95 percent of those people move from 12 east of the City of Novi, coming into our neighborhoods 13 here. 14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anything else? 15 MR. MOSCHETTA: That would be all. 16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. At this point, 17 I will ask for anybody in the public who wants to make 18 comment on this particular case, please raise your hand 19 and be recognized. 20 Seeing none, I will close the public remarks 21 section and call on our secretary to read any 22 correspondence. 23 MEMBER SKELCY: 168 notices were mailed out, 24 66 were returned mail, one objection, no approvals. 25 The objection comes from Jan Martin, located
15 1 at 29769 Roussian in Novi. She states, they have 2 already had an extension. They now should construct 3 the permanent signage, with no variance of sign 4 ordinance. This is a private facility. 5 As a private facility, the current ordinance 6 as set by the City of Novi is sufficient. The facility 7 is not difficult to find, and they are not inviting 8 public to the facility. 9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. Anybody from 10 the City have a comment on this particular case? 11 Seeing none, I will open it up to the Board 12 for questions. Member Sanghvi? 13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I 14 have got a question for the City Attorney. Is there 15 any stipulation in any ordinances (inaudible) for 16 giving extensions, just one year, two years, five 17 years? 18 MS. KUDLA: No, there is no specific time 19 frame. 20 MEMBER SANGHVI: No specific limits on it? 21 MS. KUDLA: No. 22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Now, about this. 23 I have known of this facility every since it opened. 24 And I have been inside. It's an excellent facility. I 25 just want to make one comment.
16 1 I take exception to counsel's comment that 2 the older people can't see well. That's nonsense. We 3 all pass a driving test before we can drive. To tell 4 us that seniors can't see well, that's sort of an 5 unfair comment. 6 Anyway, as far as I am concerned, I don't 7 know why -- I don't see anywhere on that sign where 8 there is any construction going on or anything to that 9 effect. 10 And why can't this sign be kind of a facility 11 identification sign, rather than a construction sign. 12 Then we can bypass all of this temporary business and 13 get on with it. 14 So, the question is, can we consider this is 15 the business identification sign rather than a 16 construction sign without readvertising? 17 MS. KUDLA: I will have to look -- do you 18 mean just consider it as a submittal, as a business 19 construction sign rather than as a variance or just 20 consider this as a permanent sign? 21 MEMBER SANGHVI: That's what I'm coming at, 22 because this sign is going to be -- is going to be 23 needed for a long time to come. The economy is not 24 going to change until 2014. 25 Instead of giving them an extension year
17 1 after year, or every two years, maybe we should find 2 some kind of a solution to the problem, especially, in 3 this particular case, where they don't have a real 4 business identification sign to start with. 5 Just a question, whether we can make this 6 into one of those. 7 MS. KUDLA: If we are going to make this a 8 permanent sign, I think the reason that we need the 9 variance is because it's in the setback, is that 10 correct? We'd have to -- is there another sign on the 11 site? 12 MR. GERECKE: Yes, there is. There is a sign 13 in the middle, correct? 14 MR. GALVIN: There is. That is not visible. 15 This one is visible, as was shown in the video. 16 MS. KUDLA: So you would be asking whether 17 there would be a permanent sign in the setback, that's 18 the question? That would be -- I guess that would 19 be -- what the request would be. I think right now, 20 the request in front of us is a temporary extension. 21 There was no specific time period -- let's see, 12 22 months. 23 There is no specific time requested, so I 24 guess, I mean, it would be up to you what time you 25 wanted to grant for it, but we would basically -- that
18 1 would be -- you know, depending on, you know, what time 2 frame you're thinking, basically the variance is to put 3 it in the setback, and I guess I'm not sure whether 4 that was the submittal, at this point, was for a 5 permanent sign in the setback or just a temporary. 6 So, we would have to look at how it was 7 noticed, whether it was noticed for a temporary or 8 permanent sign in the setback. 9 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Well, I have no 10 problem with continuing this sign. And I would suggest 11 to my fellow Board Members that maybe we should 12 consider giving them a variance, for maybe not just two 13 years, maybe five years. 14 And then in the meantime, they can find out 15 what kind of permanent sign they want to have, so they 16 don't have to keep coming back. 17 This is a great facility. It is quite an 18 asset to the City of Novi having a place like this. 19 And I don't know how many of you have visited 20 this place from inside, it's a great facility. And I 21 have no problem supporting that application. Thank 22 you. 23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Skelcy? 24 MEMBER SKELCY: I have some questions for the 25 attorney.
19 1 This sign, I believe, is lighted? It has 2 electrical attached to it, is that correct? 3 MR. GALVIN: Yes. 4 MEMBER SKELCY: And this is a gated 5 community, I believe, is that correct? 6 MR. GALVIN: Yes, it is. 7 MEMBER SKELCY: So people need an appointment 8 to get in, is that correct? 9 MR. GALVIN: No. They need to identify 10 themselves, and they need to have a specific place to 11 be going, and people who come to live there, especially 12 during the daylight hours, drive, and as you heard 13 earlier, sometimes call to us, and ask for directions, 14 don't know where they're going, they don't have a 15 specific appointment. It is not as controlled a 16 situation as you're suggesting. 17 MEMBER SKELCY: But they have to have 18 someplace to go when they're at the gate, indicating, I 19 am meeting someone at a particular apartment, or I'm 20 meeting the sales representative to check out one of 21 the -- 22 MR. MOSCHETTA: If I can add to that. Or if 23 they're coming to a public event for a lecture, or a 24 concert, or some event like that, they just tell the 25 gatehouse that's where they are going to, and they're
20 1 directed to where that public event is. 2 MEMBER SKELCY: Those are all my questions. 3 I am not in favor of extending the variance, primarily 4 because this is, I think, an advertising sign to sell 5 the apartments, rather than a sign indicating the 6 location of the facility. 7 And I think that if you have some problems 8 with your sign for your facility, which does say, Fox 9 Run, it is right on the entryway, that maybe you need 10 to revamp that sign. 11 But I think after 10 years, the sign is no 12 longer temporary, that it's nearly permanent, and we do 13 not have a request for a permanent sign in front of us. 14 I don't think that you are unreasonably 15 prevented from the use of the property, without the 16 sign. And I think that there are no unique or 17 exceptional circumstances to the property that would 18 require the sign, so I would encourage the Board 19 Members to vote against this particular request, based 20 on the fact that it really is no longer a temporary 21 sign. Thank you. 22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Gedeon? 23 MEMBER GEDEON: I couldn't agree more with 24 Member Skelcy. You have an existing Fox Run sign there 25 on both sides of the driveway. If that's not
21 1 sufficient, I think you need to work on changing that 2 sign. 3 And you have presented a very compelling case 4 for a larger sign. So I would not be opposed to, if 5 you come back next month, or a few months from now and 6 ask for a larger, permanent sign. 7 That would be perfectly reasonable, based on 8 the facts you presented today. 9 But I don't quite understand continuing the 10 temporary sign here. 11 And one follow-up question to the City. Is 12 there any issue with the fact that the temporary sign 13 is lit? Is there any restrictions like that? 14 MS. KUDLA: Is it -- I don't understand what 15 type of sign is up there. We would have to check the 16 original permit. 17 MEMBER GEDEON: In general, there is no 18 restrictions on lighting a temporary sign? 19 MS. KUDLA: On lighting, I mean, it's in 20 different zoning districts, how it can be lit. I think 21 if it's a light shining on it, I don't think that's a 22 problem that. I'm not sure how it's lit it. I mean, 23 it can't be like a, you know, flashing sign or anything 24 like that. But just a sign lighting isn't prohibited, 25 no.
22 1 MEMBER GEDEON: Thank you. 2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Ibe. 3 MEMBER IBE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. To the 4 applicant, now, I heard you say, I think I was starting 5 to make note, that 10 years is not enough time. I know 6 you're not trying to tell me, and pretend I'm a two 7 year-old. How much time do you really need in order to 8 understand what is temporary? 9 MR. GALVIN: The point I was trying to make 10 is that the purpose of the sign, which at the time it 11 was originally erected, and at the time the initial 12 request for extension were made, was, in fact, a 13 temporary sign for construction and for marketing. 14 There is no question that it's there for marketing. 15 And it was anticipated that in the period, at 16 that time, we're dealing now in 2002, that five to 17 seven years, the project would be completely built out. 18 Now, I have been paying attention to what the 19 Board has said. And I don't think it would be helpful 20 either to the City, in the enforcement of its 21 ordinances, and I'm not avoiding your timing question, 22 how long. If this Board were to allow a tabling of 23 this particular request, to permit us to apply for a 24 permanent sign, because I know you folks are trying to 25 fashion something that makes sense under the City's
23 1 ordinances to you, and that there is no purpose to 2 injure this particular land use. While I most 3 respectfully disagree, we don't have physical criteria 4 that meet the ordinance, that's neither here nor there. 5 The truth of the matter is, if the Board were 6 to entertain the notion of tabling with a direction 7 that we file for a permanent sign, that would meet our 8 needs, during the time of the tabling, we would not be 9 in the position where nobody could see us. And that I 10 would like the Board to give some thought to that. 11 MEMBER IBE: Well, I think you attempted to 12 answer my question, but I don't believe I got the 13 answer I was looking for. 14 MR. GALVIN: I'm sorry that I didn't give you 15 the answer you were looking for. I rarely do. I never 16 answer questions the way people want them answered. 17 I try to put forth what I believe to be the 18 truth. It is from a perspective. It's from a point of 19 view, there is no question. But 10 years is a long 20 time for a temporary sign, if that's the what issue is. 21 I tried to explain the why. 22 MEMBER IBE: You will agree that 10 years is 23 a long time, right? 24 MR. GALVIN: I certainly do. 25 MEMBER IBE: Now, when you came here today,
24 1 did you have -- because I know you said -- my note said 2 somewhere, like you need sufficient amount of time to 3 find out what will happen. 4 How many more years you think they're 5 required to figure out what you need to do with this 6 sign? 7 I think it is a difficult question because 8 obviously they have had 10 years, so I think they 9 requiring two or three years to think about the little 10 bit more and figure out if they need a permanent one or 11 a temporary one. 12 MR. MOSCHETTA: We are hoping to have another 13 building under construction within a next couple of 14 years. Another sign like that will be needed to 15 attract people in to be looking for something, to 16 identify them, to take get them to our site. 17 So we are hoping to have another building 18 under construction within the next couple of years. 19 And one thing that I was always try to 20 identify with people, the services that we are offering 21 to the community, and people living there, are unique 22 in itself, that we are not a condo complex, or we are 23 not a subdivision. 24 People who are moving to Fox Run are looking 25 for specific need that only Fox Run can offer to them.
25 1 So it is a very unique service. And our customer is -- 2 their requirements are something different, and again, 3 they're not coming from the local area, they're not 4 familiar with the Thirteen Mile area, they're looking 5 for something specific to identify. 6 MEMBER IBE: Thank you. Well, I must tell 7 you that, sir, in listening to the presentation you 8 have made, which is quite compelling, and listening to 9 my fellow board members here, I'm probably on the fence 10 with the issue. The reason -- for the following 11 reasons. One, I believe 10 years is a long time. 12 Now, I'm not perhaps the best English 13 student, but I know what temporary means. It doesn't 14 mean 10 years, that's permanent. 15 Obviously, the facility, we should have 16 talked about other ways to get around this sign. This 17 is a marketing sign seven new units. It's not really 18 something that identifies it is a place where people 19 need to go. 20 And second, just as Member Skelcy stated, as 21 well as our other members, clients who come to this 22 place already know where they're going. 23 I don't believe that in public people just 24 drive around Thirteen Mile and say, geez, today I think 25 I'm going to go to Fox Run. You know, people probably
26 1 know where they're going, they have to go a gate, and 2 then they have to dictate where they need to be, so 3 they can be directed. 4 It tells me that, for anyone who wants to 5 goes to Fox Run, I bet you they know where to go. So 6 whether you have this sign or another sign, it's may 7 not even make a difference. 8 So, until, maybe, I hear something otherwise 9 from the other members, I will reserve my judgment, as 10 to which way I'm going to go on this. Thank you, 11 Mr. Chair. 12 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. 13 MR. MOSCHETTA: Can I answer your question 14 about what a temporary sign is? 15 MEMBER IBE: No, I don't believe -- I think I 16 have heard enough. Thank you. 17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Krieger? 18 MEMBER KRIEGER: I agree with the previous 19 members, and from the discussion, it seems more of an 20 advertising sign. And that I don't understand why the 21 request wasn't for a permanent second sign, or if there 22 is a construction sign, that if you're having a first 23 build, you have your temporary construction trucks 24 coming in, and then the sign goes away, people know 25 where they're going. And then if the second facility
27 1 is going to be built, then you have another 2 construction, temporary construction sign. 3 So this sign to me seems like a permanent 4 sign. I don't understand the purpose of asking for the 5 continuation of a variance for a temporary sign, when 6 it seems more permanent, and that's what the request 7 would have been, and I would be in favor, at the 8 petitioner's request, to tabling it, that does allow 9 them that, otherwise, I would not be able to support 10 this request. Thank you. 11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I will weigh in on this, 12 too, a little bit, since everybody has taken their 13 chance. 14 I think this is a clear, this is not a 15 construction sign. I think that's been established. 16 It's a lit sign. I think from your presentation, it's 17 meant to draw people in potentially for sales and so 18 forth, which is, you know, completely different type of 19 signage, so I don't believe you meet the standard, sir. 20 Again, whether someone wants to make a motion 21 to table it, I don't know if that helps you necessarily 22 in the enforcement of the existing ordinance and your 23 right to have that sign there, but I wouldn't 24 necessarily have a problem with that either. 25 I don't know how long it's going to take you
28 1 to get -- apply and erect a permanent sign, but that's 2 your choice. 3 So based on what I see, I don't see any 4 support in terms of approving this. 5 I do believe, by the way, as Member Sanghvi 6 has said, it's a beautiful facility, certainly it 7 offers a lot. I understand your clientele, but we 8 don't write the ordinances, we simply grant variances, 9 if they're supported by the law and the standards that 10 you're supposed to prove. 11 Anything else? Member Sanghvi? 12 MEMBER SANGHVI: May I make a motion? 13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Sure. 14 MEMBER SANGHVI: I would like to make motion 15 that we table this case, and if they come up with a 16 permanent sign for the facility, and in the meantime, 17 until that is -- a permanent sign goes up, they may 18 continue this temporary relief for a maximum of three 19 months. 20 MEMBER KRIEGER: They will come with back to 21 us in October? 22 MEMBER SANGHVI: I don't know whether they 23 would need a variance or not. They might go within the 24 limits of the sign, to put up -- 25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: You would like to move for
29 1 them to continue this for a maximum of three months? 2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Not contingent on them 4 getting approved? 5 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yeah. 6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any further discussion? 7 You may have to state the standard upon which you are 8 basing your motion. Why don't you go ahead and do 9 that, then we can get a second. 10 If you want to state the basis upon which you 11 wish to move -- 12 MEMBER SANGHVI: Because A, this doesn't look 13 like a construction sign, and B, it's not temporary 14 anymore. And so, we need to find a way out, this is 15 just to help out the applicant. 16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any seconds? 17 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second. 18 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any further discussion? 19 Member Skelcy? 20 MEMBER SKELCY: You know, I want the 21 applicant to know that, if you come back and say, oh, 22 this is our new permanent sign, I'm not going to be in 23 favor of that either. 24 I mean, to me, this is, you know, the sign. 25 And if you come back and say, oh, the Fox Run sign that
30 1 is at the entrance, we are going to modify it, here's 2 how we plan to modify it, you know, I would definitely 3 look at that. 4 But I don't want the applicant to come back 5 in three months and say, oh, this is our new permanent 6 sign. 7 So I just want to give the applicant fair 8 warning on that. 9 MR. GALVIN: With permission of the Chair, 10 may I speak? I know you've -- 11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I'll give you a couple 12 more minutes, sir, just speak at the podium, please. 13 MR. GALVIN: Thank you for the courtesy. 14 I was not proposing to bring back this sign. 15 What I was proposing, when I mentioned the tabling is, 16 leave us a sign for visibility during the period that 17 we prepare an application for a permanent sign that 18 would not look like this. 19 It would look like a permanent sign for 20 identification. It would require -- I don't want to go 21 into the details, because I'm not sure, but we would 22 look at size and proximity to the road because of the 23 unique physical circumstances of the parcel. 24 But it is not a proposal to come back and say 25 make this permanent. And I hope that your remarks
31 1 don't mean that you might -- you did say you would -- 2 no. I listened more carefully. The lady said she will 3 listen. That's all I ask. 4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Ms. Pawlowski, can you 5 please take the roll. We have a motion and a second. 6 MS. KUDLA: I just want to clarify. Is the 7 motion to set it for the October 11th agenda, table it 8 until then, and subject granting an extension for three 9 months, subject to them putting it on the October 11th 10 agenda for a permanent sign? 11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I asked if there was any 12 contingencies. He said there was not. So it's a three 13 month extension period. Is that accurate? 14 MEMBER SANGHVI: That's correct. That's what 15 I said. 16 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon? 17 MEMBER GEDEON: Yes. 18 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam? 19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Yes. 20 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe? 21 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 22 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger? 23 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 24 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi? 25 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.
32 1 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy? 2 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 3 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six to zero. 4 MR. GALVIN: Thank you. We have heard you. 5 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Next on the agenda is Item 6 No. 11-014, 39500 MacKenzie Drive, for MacKenzie North 7 Technology Center. 8 The applicant is requesting a variance to 9 allow continued placement of an oversized 32 square 10 foot leasing sign for the MacKenzie North Technology 11 Center. The property is zoned, OST, and located west 12 of Haggerty and north of Thirteen Mile Road. 13 Will the applicant please step forward. 14 Please state your name and address, sir. 15 MR. DROHLSHAGEN: I am Joseph Drohlshagen, 16 39000 Country Club Drive, Farmington Hills. 17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Can you please raise your 18 right hand and be sworn. 19 MEMBER SKELCY: Do you swear or affirm to 20 tell the truth? 21 MR. DROHLSHAGEN: I do. The sign that's 22 currently on MacKenzie North is 32 square feet, and 23 depicts a building that we have site plan approval on. 24 And that particular location is at the north end of the 25 second phase of Haggerty Corridor Corporate Park. It's
33 1 on MacKenzie Drive, which is probably not a very 2 well-known drive, but it's a major east-west drive 3 heading off of Haggerty. 4 The marketing sign has been up since we had 5 site plan approval, I believe. We need or are 6 requesting an extension of it for another year. 7 The good news is, that north end is going to 8 have a building on it very soon. We are building a 9 build to suit building. It's going to look a lot like 10 a picture in the temporary sign there. 11 Once the building is up, people will be to 12 kick it, look at it, scratch it and say, this is what 13 this particular part of the Haggerty Corridor Corporate 14 Park is going to look like, and then that temporary 15 sign will be taken down and our standard leasing sign 16 will be put up. 17 So I think the total extension period is 18 approximately a year. But once it logically becomes 19 visible, the other building will probably end up 20 putting up a leasing sign. That's it. 21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, sir. Is there 22 anybody from the public who would wish to make a 23 comment on this particular case, please raise your 24 right hand to be recognized. 25 Seeing none, I will close the public remarks
34 1 section, and ask our secretary to read any 2 correspondence. 3 MEMBER SKELCY: Fourteen notices were mailed, 4 there were no responses and two were returned by the 5 post office. 6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. Any comments 7 from the City on this particular case? 8 MS. KUDLA: No. 9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing none, I will open 10 it up to the Board for comments or questions. Member 11 Skelcy? 12 MEMBER SKELCY: When is that building going 13 to construction? 14 MR. DROHLSHAGEN: Dirt has begun moving 15 already. If you drive by there, we're going to start 16 the foundation shortly. 17 MEMBER SKELCY: And when do you expect the 18 construction to be completed? 19 MR. DROHLSHAGEN: Depending on how the winter 20 goes, somewhere February, March, April, something like 21 that. 22 MEMBER SKELCY: Of 2012? 23 MR. DROHLSHAGEN: 2012. 24 MEMBER SKELCY: 2012, thank you. 25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Just have a couple of
35 1 questions. Is that building leased? 2 MR. DROHLSHAGEN: 100 percent leased to 3 Tognam America. They're going to bring about 240 new 4 jobs into Novi. 5 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: So the question becomes if 6 that building is ready to go and to be leased, why do 7 you need this sign? In the size that you're 8 requesting? 9 MR. DROHLSHAGEN: Because you won't be able 10 to see what the building is going to really end up 11 looking like for a while. And I don't know how long a 12 while is. I didn't want to have to come back in six 13 months to ask the same question. But certainly, that's 14 a valid -- it's a very valid question. Once that 15 building is up and leased, we don't need it, and we 16 will take that sign down, and put up our leasing sign. 17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: If the building is going 18 up and it's fully leased, what do you need the sign 19 for. 20 MR. DROHLSHAGEN: I'm sorry. The company 21 that's moving into MacKenzie South -- is across the 22 street from MacKenzie North. MacKenzie South does not 23 have a sign at all. MacKenzie North is the parcel that 24 received site plan approval a couple years ago. We 25 were only allowed, I guess, I was not involved in this
36 1 particular, one marketing sign on that corner of 2 MacKenzie. We didn't have a MacKenzie South marketing 3 sign, the MacKenzie North marketing sign, we just had a 4 MacKenzie North marketing sign. 5 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: You're requesting one 6 year? 7 MR. DROHLSHAGEN: Uh-huh. 8 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I don't have any other 9 questions. Anybody else have any questions? 10 MEMBER SKELCY: I just need clarification. 11 So the new building is going on the south property? 12 MR. DROHLSHAGEN: That is correct. 13 MEMBER SKELCY: You're saying that you will 14 take down this larger sign in a year because people can 15 look at the south building and see that as -- 16 MR. DROHLSHAGEN: Right now, it's a big farm 17 field basically, and you can't really tell that there 18 is going to be an extension of the Haggerty corridor 19 there. It's just nothing but land. 20 So this sign is showing the potential 21 building that is going to be going there, on MacKenzie 22 North. 23 And so from a marketing standpoint, that's 24 been helpful. But now that MacKenzie South building is 25 going up, fully occupied, we still have another
37 1 building that is site plan approved, called MacKenzie 2 North, we'd like to still be able to market that, 3 showing that, yes, it's going to look like that, it's 4 not going to look like a residential subdivision. 5 MEMBER SKELCY: Okay, thank you very much. 6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anybody else? Member 7 Gedeon? 8 MEMBER GEDEON: I would just say that this 9 seems reasonable to me, for the reasons that they're 10 entitled to a leasing sign in the first place, and 11 they're merely asking for a larger sign to depict what 12 the building would look like. It seems like a 13 reasonable situation and time limited. 14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: And I will echo that. I 15 understand that you're entitled to 16 square feet. You 16 want 32. It is double. But you have a massive area 17 back there. 18 But keep in mind, as you have heard, I'm sure 19 from the previous case sometimes, sometimes temporary 20 becomes permanent. 21 MR. DROHLSHAGEN: No doubt. 22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: That to me does not comply 23 with the intent of our ordinances. 24 But anything else by the Board? If not, I 25 will entertain a motion.
38 1 Member Gedeon? 2 MEMBER GEDEON: In Case 11-1014, 39500 3 MacKenzie Drive, I move to approve the variance as 4 requested for a one-year extension of a 32 square feet 5 leasing sign. For the reasons that there is nothing 6 currently built on the property, and that the oversized 7 sign will allow potential lessees to view a depiction 8 of the building. 9 And also because the request is based on 10 circumstances and features that are exceptional and 11 unique to the property and does not result from 12 conditions that exist generally in the city. 13 Failure to grant relief will unreasonably 14 prevent or limit the use of the property and will 15 result in substantially more than a mere inconvenience 16 or inability to attain a higher economic financial 17 return. 18 And the grant of relief will not result in 19 the use of structure that is incompatible or 20 unreasonably interferes with adjacent or surrounding 21 properties, and will result in substantial justice 22 being done to both the applicant and the adjacent 23 surrounding properties. 24 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second. 25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any further discussion?
39 1 Seeing none, can you please call the roll, 2 Ms. Pawlowski. 3 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon? 4 MEMBER GEDEON: Yes. 5 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam? 6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Yes. 7 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe? 8 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 9 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger? 10 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 11 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi? 12 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 13 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy? 14 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 15 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes, six to zero. 16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Congratulations. 17 Next item is Item No. 11-010, 25100 Novi 18 Road. 19 The applicant can please come forward. 20 MR. ROLLINGER: Good evening, Members of the 21 Board. My name is Robert Rollinger. I'm an attorney 22 for the Board of County Road Commissioners for Oakland 23 County. 24 We are back this evening to discuss with you 25 the two options or alternatives for a sign, for the
40 1 property at 25100 Novi Road, owned by Gagliano 2 Enterprises, doing business as Collex Collision. 3 At the last meeting, the Board indicated in a 4 split vote, the two proposal that we had put before 5 you. One being a pole sign. 6 The profile that we provided to the Board, 7 and was attached to the application, I have my copy 8 here. I don't want to get them mixed up. 9 Now that I have done that, I'm not sure how 10 visible has. I hope you folks can see that. 11 The pole sign, based on the profile drawing, 12 that this is showing you, given the slope of the 13 embankment, at that point, on Novi Road, looking east, 14 a height of the pole would be at least 10 feet in 15 height, with a four-foot tall sign on top. The overall 16 height would be approximately 14 feet. 17 This would provide a site line as one is 18 traveling on Novi Road. It's approximately 750 feet 19 from the proposed Collex Collision sign location. 20 Again, because of the slope at the 21 intersection from Novi Road heading east, to where the 22 actual sign location would be placed, it is our 23 recommendation that the Board would allow a 14-foot 24 tall pole. 25 So it would raise the overall height to
41 1 18 feet, again, based on a four-foot tall sign being 2 placed at the top of the pole. Again, that's based on 3 the slope of the embankment. 4 I would indicate that the applicant, being 5 the Road Commission, is simply offering two different 6 choices. The owner, who is also here this evening, he 7 did indicate at the last meeting, that this is the 8 preference that they had. 9 The other alternative is to have a ground 10 mount sign, which is the sign that the applicant -- I'm 11 sorry, the owner currently has on site. That is about 12 a 32 square foot sign. It's approximately a little 13 over eight feet long, and about four feet tall. 14 The approximate location, based again on the 15 grade running east from Novi Road, due to the 16 embankment, is about one in four grade, and again we 17 would contemplate, if this is the choice, being placed 18 on at least a one-foot tall pedestal, again, which is 19 what the applicant -- the owner had prior to the Novi 20 Road widening project. 21 The height of the sign, based on a 22 measurement at the mid-point, would be approximately 23 seven and a half feet tall. We are, again, 24 recommending some flexibility because the embankment 25 may not be exactly correct until it's actually
42 1 finished, to allow the overall height of the sign to be 2 eight and a half feet tall, to account for a two foot 3 high pedestal because the owner may well want to go 4 back to what they had. 5 I believe their pedestal, prior to it being 6 taken down for the road widening, I believe was two 7 feet. 8 We also are calling for a secondary sign 9 which would be placed on the north wall of the 10 building, that would be approximately 30 square feet in 11 size. 12 The secondary sign would be placed below the 13 top of the parapet, which would increase the visibilty 14 for southbound travelers coming onto Novi Road to be 15 able to identify the location again for Collex 16 Collision, so this would be helpful to the owner, based 17 again on their location and proximity to the bridge 18 overpass. 19 That's basically all I have. 20 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, sir. Did 21 anybody want to speak on behalf of the owner? 22 MS. WEEKLEY: Yes. Again, my name is Rebecca 23 Weekley. I'm general counsel for Collex. As you all 24 are aware, we are preferential towards the pole sign. 25 What wasn't mentioned this evening, after
43 1 last month's meeting, I did visit the site myself. 2 There is a window on the building where they anticipate 3 putting that 30 foot additional sign on the north side 4 of the building, which makes it impossible to put a 5 30 foot sign onto that side of the building, which 6 again is going to hamper visibility because that sign 7 can't be 30 feet, it can't be located where they're 8 anticipating the sign to be located. 9 That was not mentioned this evening, but I 10 did needed to bring that to your attention. 11 Again, as I pointed out last time, pole 12 signs, I know they're not allowed in the City of Novi, 13 but they are and have been granted. 14 Harold's Frame Shop, this is on Grand River, 15 again, you can see here, this is a case very similar to 16 ours, where Harold's is again is down in a hole, like 17 we will be down in a hole due to the bridge 18 construction. They are down in a hole here, you can 19 see the railing here, for the bridge that goes in front 20 of Harold's shop. 21 This is an exact same case, and we are asking 22 that you give us the exact same thing, which is a pole 23 sign. 24 Obviously, our pole sign will be a little bit 25 nicer, and more esthetically pleasing, but this is what
44 1 we are asking for this evening. 2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. Is there 3 anybody in the public who would like to say something 4 else? 5 MR. ROLLINGER: I would like to add one 6 thing. We did go out to look at the north face of the 7 building, for the secondary sign. We measured the size 8 of the brick wall, for the number of bricks. There is 9 sufficient place -- there is sufficient placement for 10 the secondary sign. 11 The only thing the owner would have to do is 12 there is some exterior light to provide lighting on 13 that side of the building, which frankly, would be 14 helpful for the sign, may have to be moved over. We 15 are not trying to dictate though to the owner where 16 they want to place the sign, we're simply recommending 17 it. It's their building, it would be their sign. But 18 we think the only thing they would have to do is to 19 relocate the exterior light. 20 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. Is anybody 21 from the public who would like to make a comment on 22 this case, please raise your right hand and be 23 recognized. 24 Seeing none, I will close the public remarks 25 section and ask our secretary to read any
45 1 correspondence. 2 MEMBER SKELCY: Nine notices were mailed. No 3 responses. No returned mailed. 4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. Anything 5 further from the City? I know we discussed this in 6 detail last time, but anything further? 7 MS. KUDLA: We haven't received any new 8 information or any materials since last time. 9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any further Board 10 discussion? Member Skelcy? 11 MEMBER SKELCY: I just wanted to say that my 12 position, since we last met, has not changed. And in 13 fact, I think that the fact that counsel pointed out 14 that there was one other sign could be used in the 15 future, along with this sign, to justify further pole 16 signs in the city. 17 I think it becomes a slippery slope toward 18 pole signs, when we start granting these, and so as 19 last time I encouraged the Board to consider the ground 20 mounted installation, along with an additional wall 21 sign of up to 30 square feet on the north building 22 elevation. Thank you. 23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Gedeon? 24 MEMBER GEDEON: My position has not changed 25 either. And two points that I want to make. One,
46 1 which I made last month, regarding the Harold's Frame 2 Shop. We still not do not have any -- you say it's the 3 exact same situation, but we don't know exactly where 4 it's placed in relation to the slope of the bridge. We 5 don't know if they had a pole sign before, maybe it was 6 just removed -- maybe it was just moving their pole 7 sign or making their pole sign higher. You know, those 8 particular facts have not been presented to us. 9 So we are left to guess at whether or not it 10 really is the same situation or not. 11 And to the fellow Board Members here, I see 12 this as -- the Road Commission has come to us with 13 alternative proposals. 14 The fact that they are here, in the first 15 place, means that they're -- neither of the proposals 16 that in compliance with the zoning ordinance. So we 17 have to look to see how far are we willing to extend 18 past the zoning ordinance. 19 And I see the proposal for two signs, the 20 ground mounted sign and the wall mounted sign, as 21 really the middle ground here. 22 I mean, we don't even have to go very far 23 from Novi to see awful pole signs can look. Anyone who 24 has gone to Wixom Road and Grand River area, there is 25 pole signs at many of those businesses location, and it
47 1 just -- it looks awful. 2 And here, in this situation, this collision 3 shop is only a half mile away from the downtown Novi, 4 which is intended to be the premier development site in 5 the city. And to suggest that we are going to start 6 putting pole signs that close to the core part of the 7 city, I just, I can't agree to that. I really do see 8 that offering the applicant two signs, it really is a 9 compromise position here. 10 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Krieger? 11 MEMBER KRIEGER: I disagree. Michigan CAT 12 has a pole sign. They have two poles with their signs 13 that says Michigan CAT. 14 Pine Ridge down the street has -- they also 15 have a pole sign. Big Boys, theirs is not as tall. If 16 you drive in any parking lot that has lights, there is 17 all poles with lights. 18 As long as it doesn't look like Eight Mile 19 with those big freeway signs, I believe this sign, that 20 they're asking for, is consistent, and with the -- 21 would fit in with the Novi corridor. I have driven 22 down to where the train tracks are, the bridge is going 23 be to massive. And we granted this person -- the 24 business is a taxpayer of Novi, versus the County, 25 which is a benefit, we are having two groups here that
48 1 are trying to make Novi a better place to be. 2 If I was a taxpayer paying my property taxes, 3 and then I come, and I'd like to have this request, I 4 don't understand why that, you know, this is my 5 request, this other group is coming in saying, this is 6 this what we want, I would go with what the taxpayer is 7 asking for -- he's asking for a reasonable pole sign. 8 That is not going to be in a visible disturbance, there 9 are trees along there. It blends with the rest of it, 10 so I remain where I'm standing as well. 11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anything further? 12 MEMBER SANGHVI: I think I said my peace 13 enough last time. 14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Ibe, any comments 15 to let the Board know what you're feeling? 16 MEMBER IBE: Well, Mr. Chair, I was not here 17 last month. Unfortunately, I was away in Europe, but 18 I'm sure -- I don't have -- unfortunately, I don't have 19 the package that was originally done with this case, 20 with my stuff, so -- but if I may say that pole signs 21 are not usually something that we -- that we are pretty 22 particular about in the City of Novi. And I'm sure 23 everyone will probably agree to that. They're not the 24 most pleasing sight to look at. I certainly wouldn't 25 want one in front of my house or across the street from
49 1 me. 2 And if we begin to go down this route, like 3 Member Gedeon stated, it becomes almost like a slippery 4 slope, people come back next this time, I can see 5 somebody coming back here and saying, you know what, 6 you just granted one to Collex Collision. You know, 7 this is going to be a good argument, because after all, 8 we just used it. I mean, that is -- I mean, you're an 9 attorney, you know what I mean. It's called precedent. 10 You begin to set one gradually, before you know it, the 11 exception becomes the rule. 12 And once the exception becomes the rule, it 13 becomes something that we (inaudible) in the laws, and 14 there will be no enforcement of the ordinance. 15 Right now, I can certainly tell you that I am 16 not particularly in favor of a pole sign. I believe 17 the County is not saying that you should stay with the 18 second choice, but the County has been neutral 19 actually, we all deference to Member Krieger here, the 20 County has been neutral in saying, look, we have 21 offered you two choice here. So you decide which one 22 you want. 23 The owner prefers this, but we don't 24 really -- I don't believe the County is making -- is 25 dictating to this Board where we should stand.
50 1 But I think that, if you would ask me what my 2 position is right now, it would will probably be 3 against the pole sign. And I will probably be in favor 4 of the second option that was suggested. 5 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. While I 7 understood, I mean, you kind of get an idea of where 8 the Board is going. 9 MR. GAGLIANO: We didn't ask this for this, 10 you guys. You know, we are not coming here -- 11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: If you can just speak at 12 the podium. 13 MR. GAGLIANO: I'm Rob Gagliano, one of the 14 owners of Collex. 15 The thing you're not seeing here is, this is 16 not me coming in here because I want a new, bigger 17 sign. I didn't ask for the road to be widened. I 18 didn't ask to lose a bunch of my property. I didn't 19 ask for a driveway that's going to be 14 feet high. I 20 didn't ask for any of this kind of stuff. 21 The City, the County is widening Novi Road. 22 It's a great thing for the City, it needed to be done. 23 Effectively, because of that, we have a 24 unique situation, that's the bottom line. I don't know 25 what it is that you have such a holdup with pole signs.
51 1 We are not going to put up a piece of wood with -- a 2 piece of plywood up there, it will be a nice sign. 3 But you're going to put me out of business. 4 People can't see me where we are at with the road 5 being -- the driveway, if you haven't studied the 6 plans, are projected to be 14 feet higher than what it 7 is today, is that correct, Mr. Rollinger? 8 MR. ROLLINGER: I can't -- 9 MR. GAGLIANO: Fourteen feet higher than what 10 it is today. So picture where I'm at on Novi Road, and 11 picture a road that's now 14 feet higher than what it 12 is, and that's what I will be looking at, so we 13 referenced the Harold's Frame situation because it's 14 similar. I did speak to the owner over there, and that 15 is a pole sign that you folks granted to them at some 16 point in the past, so they were granted that. 17 As Member Krieger mentioned, Michigan CAT got 18 a humungous pole sign 150 feet away from us. The 19 shopping mall across the street has a humungous pole 20 sign across the street from us. 21 So there are pole signs already there. We 22 are not asking for something that is unreasonable here. 23 I don't want a monument sign, where they have 24 the proposed 32 square feet on the north side of the 25 building, you're talking about putting a postage stamp
52 1 on the corner of a building. There is a window there. 2 There is a parking lot light there. You're talking 3 about jamming in this sign on the corner of the 4 building. It would look ridiculous for one. 5 So we don't want that. If that's what you're 6 going to grant me today, keep it, and we will just go 7 to court and do whatever we got to do to proceed. 8 I'm not in for a monument sign. So if we 9 can't approve the pole sign, thank you very much, we 10 will go about our business and do whatever we got to 11 do. Thank you. 12 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: While I understand your 13 position, sir, as you know, we don't write the 14 ordinances, we simply grant or deny your requests based 15 or your proofs. 16 I have listened to the testimony again. I 17 have listened to the theories of my other members, and 18 in this case, clearly, the intent of the City is to not 19 issue anymore pole signs. 20 I mean, whether some were there before under 21 various previous ordinances, it's not our concern 22 necessarily today. 23 I understand your point, they're valid 24 points, but unfortunately, at this time, I couldn't. 25 I'm not inclined to grant it either, so --
53 1 MR. GAGLIANO: Do you what you got to do. 2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anything further by the 3 Board? Member Skelcy? 4 MEMBER SKELCY: Just one more thing. I 5 believe that Collex is a destination location as well. 6 I know that having -- currently working in the 7 insurance industry that, they get referrals from 8 various insurance companies. I think that people don't 9 just drive by and think, oh, I'm going to go to Collex 10 because I got in a fender-bender. 11 I think that comes about, you know, after a 12 particular incident, now they're looking for a place to 13 have the work done. So again, I think it's a 14 destination location, and having a monument sign would 15 be adequate, and as Member Gedeon said, the least 16 intrusive variance that we can provide based on the 17 City ordinances. Thank you. 18 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Ms. Kudla? 19 MS. KUDLA: I just wanted to remind the Board 20 that the Road Commission is the applicant, so even 21 though the property owner may not want the wall sign, 22 you can still make the decision to grant that. 23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Correct. Anything else by 24 the Board? If not, I will entertain a motion. 25 Member Skelcy?
54 1 MEMBER SKELCY: In the case of 11-010 for the 2 address of 25100 Novi Road, Collex, Gagliano 3 Enterprises, Inc., I move that we grant the applicant a 4 ground mounted re-installation of the existing sign on 5 monument and an addition wall sign of up to 30 square 6 feet on the north building elevation. 7 As well, that we grant the variance for the 8 proposed 8-foot height of the ground sign to 9 accommodate the new road embankment, and to allow the 10 additional wall sign of 30 square feet maximum. 11 This is based on the fact -- this variance 12 will be granted to the RCOC under MCL 213.54(2) and are 13 subject to the requirements of MCL 213.54(2) including 14 as follows: The property shall be considered by the 15 governmental entity to be in conformity with the zoning 16 ordinance for all future issues, with respect to the 17 non-conformity for which that variance was granted. 18 However, if the property was also 19 non-conforming for other reasons, the grant of that 20 variance has no effect on the status of those other 21 preexisting non-conformities. 22 An owner shall not increase the 23 non-conformity for which a variance is granted under 24 the section without the consent of the governmental 25 entity.
55 1 An agency has the same right to appeal action 2 on a zoning variance, as would a property owner seeking 3 a zoning variance. This section does not deprive a 4 governmental entity of its discretion to grant or deny 5 a variance. 6 I believe that the standards for granting 7 this particular variance have been met, in that, the 8 circumstances of the features are exceptional and 9 unique to the property, based on the fact that a bridge 10 is being built on Novi Road, and it does not result 11 from conditions that exist generally in the city and 12 are not self-created. I do believe that the standard 13 has been met and that the failure to grant relief will 14 unreasonably prevent or limit the use of the property 15 and will result in substantially more than mere 16 inconvenience or inability to attain a high economic or 17 financial return. 18 Finally, the grant of relief will not result 19 in a use of structure that is incompatible with or 20 unreasonably interferes with the adjacent or 21 surrounding properties. It will result in substantial 22 justice being done to both the applicant and the 23 adjacent or surrounding properties, and is not 24 inconsistent with the spirit of the ordinance. 25 MEMBER IBE: Second.
56 1 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any further discussion? 2 Seeing none, can you please the call the roll. 3 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon? 4 MEMBER GEDEON: Yes. 5 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam? 6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Yes. 7 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe? 8 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 9 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger? 10 MEMBER KRIEGER: No. 11 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi? 12 MEMBER SANGHVI: No. 13 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy? 14 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 15 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes four to two. 16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Do we need to make a 17 motion on the other request, the pole sign request, or 18 just this was any alternative? 19 MS. KUDLA: I would make a motion to deny the 20 pole sign as well. 21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Just for clarification. 22 MS. KUDLA: Yes. 23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Skelcy would you 24 like to do that. 25 MEMBER SKELCY: In the case of 11-010, 25100
57 1 Novi, for Collex, Gagliano Enterprises, Inc., I move 2 that we deny the request for the variance for the pole 3 sign. 4 This is based on the fact that the request is 5 not based on circumstances and features that are 6 exceptional and unique to the property, and does not -- 7 and does result from conditions that exist generally in 8 the City or that are self-created. 9 It is also that the failure to grant relief 10 will not unreasonably prevent or limit the use of the 11 property, and will not result in substantially more 12 than mere inconvenience or inability to attain a higher 13 economic or financial return. 14 Finally, the grant of relief in this 15 particular request would result in a use of structure 16 that is incompatible with or unreasonably interferes 17 with the adjacent or surrounding properties, will 18 result in substantial injustice being done to both 19 applicant and the adjacent and surrounding properties. 20 And it is inconsistent with the spirit of the 21 ordinance. 22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: If I can just add that, in 23 addition to those bases, that fact we just wanted a 24 motion for a wall monument sign, is that okay? 25 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes.
58 1 MS. KUDLA: I would ask that you add to that 2 motion, or recommend that you add to the motion, that 3 the alternative variance granted was a lesser variance 4 that was more consistent with the spirit and intent of 5 the ordinance, and meets the -- is a lesser variance 6 meeting the needs of the applicant. 7 MEMBER SKELCY: I would like to adopt that 8 statement by counsel. 9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any seconds? 10 MEMBER GEDEON: Second. 11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any further discussion? 12 Seeing none, Ms. Pawlowski, can you please call the 13 roll. 14 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon? 15 MEMBER GEDEON: Yes. 16 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam? 17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Yes. 18 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe? 19 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 20 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger? 21 MEMBER KRIEGER: No. 22 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi? 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: No. 24 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy? 25 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes.
59 1 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motions passes four to two. 2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. Next on the 3 agenda is Case No. 11-021 for 26940 Taft Road, Stone 4 City, Inc.. Is the applicant here? 5 MR. SOULLIERE: Yes. 6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: If you can please state 7 your name and address, sir. 8 MR. SOULLIERE: Roger Soulliere, 15920 9 Plymouth, Clinton Township. 10 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Are you an attorney? 11 MR. SOULLIERE: No. I'm the owner of Stone 12 City. 13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: If you can raise your hand 14 and be sworn, please. 15 MEMBER SKELCY: Do you swear or affirm to 16 tell the truth? 17 MR. SOULLIERE: Yes. 18 MEMBER SKELCY: Thank you. 19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Go ahead. 20 MR. SOULLIERE: Yes. We'd like to request an 21 extension to our current variance we have for Stone 22 City. We have had it four or five times extensions on 23 it. 24 We have done numerous improvements to the 25 site from the time we have gone into there with a green
60 1 belt along the expressway line, given it good 2 screenage, protection. We've -- in the -- since the 3 last extension that we have had, we've demolished the 4 home out front, spent nearly $20,000 to improve the 5 looks of the site. 6 And with economic times, the way they are, 7 we'd love to be able to put a building and put 8 everything inside. At this time, it's unable to do it. 9 I am working on plans, which we have already 10 established a granite facility for sales, so that we 11 would have a year-round business that we can put inside 12 and it makes more sense. 13 So out of our Utica location, we have already 14 established that last year, to get that up and going. 15 Our intent is to have somewhat like a Surface 16 Encounters, like an interior granite and limestone 17 sales facility where we can start enclosing, having 18 more of an interior type stone facility in the near 19 future. That would be our goal. 20 Right now, it would be quite an undertaking, 21 and times are just starting to come back, where we are 22 not in the negative column, and hopefully we have 23 weathered the worst of the storm of the construction 24 and downturn, where people are starting to reinvest 25 into their own. They are finding that Stone City is a
61 1 very nice place, good samples, very friendly. I think 2 a good edition to Novi, has a hometown-type feel. And 3 we are getting pretty turnout with local contractors 4 that can come in close and homeowners that can pick 5 their material and be able to get it quickly. 6 Then it is out of the way, on the side, even 7 last year right next-door, they had a concrete 8 crushing, and there has been a lot of activity around 9 there, you know, helps get everybody working in there. 10 And I don't think we disrupted anything. We have had 11 any real complaints because of the location we are, and 12 we hope that you would take that into consideration. 13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anything else, sir? 14 MR. SOULLIERE: No. 15 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Is there anybody from the 16 public who would like to make a comment on this 17 particular case? 18 Seeing none, I will close the public remarks 19 section and ask our secretary to read any 20 correspondence. 21 MEMBER SKELCY: 21 notices were mailed, no 22 responses, four were returned by the post office. 23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anything from the City on 24 this particular matter? 25 MS. KUDLA: No.
62 1 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Nothing. Then I will open 2 it up to the Board for discussion. Member Skelcy? 3 MEMBER SKELCY: When do you think you are 4 going to start building that building? Do you have any 5 idea? 6 MR. SOULLIERE: I would hope -- our first 7 goal was to start getting some activity. We started 8 about a year and a half ago in Utica, and we are 9 getting good turnout with an interior where people can 10 come year-round and pick their interior stone. 11 And our goal was first clean up the site, get 12 rid of the home. I would say within two years, I want 13 to plans in for next year, that gives me at least six 14 months to let it work. 15 So I would say within two years I would be 16 able to start fulfilling what my grand plan would be. 17 MEMBER SKELCY: Would you then store some of 18 the general outside stone in a warehouse type portion 19 of that building? Were you thinking of doing that? 20 MR. SOULLIERE: What I have found is, I 21 checked around, there is some other sites that I have 22 seen where they have the facade and just the backdoor 23 that opens up, that was kind of like in a corral, where 24 you really wouldn't see it, it would look like 25 virtually a building on the outside, but the inside,
63 1 because there is gravels and stuff, that's -- silicas 2 and stuff that you couldn't really put all inside. 3 And that's our biggest problem, a lot of the 4 stuff is bulk materials, mulches and stuff like that. 5 Unlike a Home Depot, where they may have more bag 6 products, we have more bulk products, which is suitable 7 for people that want larger quantities. 8 MEMBER SKELCY: So for some items you would 9 bring it inside, but others would have to remain out? 10 MR. SOULLIERE: Yeah, more of a dry storage, 11 where it would just have a facade, is what we 12 envisioned. So from the outside, it looked like it's 13 in a building, but once you're in the corral, you can 14 get into the bulks and the bins. 15 MEMBER SKELCY: Okay, thank you. 16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: With that in mind, how 17 would any variance help you? Because in your zoning, 18 you have to have everything within a building, your 19 operations. I mean, what you're saying right now, is 20 your intent is that you will never enclose certain 21 items. 22 MR. SOULLIERE: It depends on how they how 23 they recite, if that's totally inside. So the back may 24 be open, but it will still be covered all the way on 25 the front and the top.
64 1 If -- I guess there is a fine line, even at 2 like Home Depot, they have got things in facade, you 3 still have stuff outside. 4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I'm just giving you what 5 the City is citing to us. It is siting a section 6 1905-1, it states that all uses within an I1 district 7 shall be conducted wholly within a completely enclosed 8 building. What you're telling us is your intent is not 9 to do that. At some point you will need a permanent 10 variance. 11 Because keep in mind, in this case, sir, 12 because you need this type of variance, your burden is 13 what we call undue hardship, which is a little bit 14 different than practical difficulty. So the question 15 becomes, you have had this for how many years now, has 16 it been 10 years or 11 years? 17 MR. SOULLIERE: Correct. 18 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: So the question is, you 19 know, your intent is not to basically comply with that 20 particular section, having it wholly enclosed, so how 21 is any variance going to help you? 22 I mean, this would -- wouldn't you agree this 23 would tend to become a permanent request by you? 24 MR. SOULLIERE: Whether there could be a 25 variation of that, that would allow semi-enclosed,
65 1 whether there was -- you know, that was our 2 exploration, anything there. From the get-go, we put 3 in plans for what we were going to do. It was -- I 4 don't know how it got overlooked, when I put in my 5 plans, and we got approvals, then they -- it was kind 6 of brought to us that it wouldn't work after we were 7 already operational. And that's why they have been so 8 gracious in working with me on this, to come up with a 9 plan. Let's keep it tight, let's get it screened. We 10 have made a lot of improvements to the site, to make 11 sure that it went from a very low class pallet storage, 12 that nobody wanted to ever see. And we took it from 13 there, to at least a garden center type atmosphere, 14 where it is something that most communities do have. 15 And it's almost impossible. So we are hoping to have a 16 hybrid type where we get the majority of it inside. If 17 there was some outside, as of, you know, big box 18 stores, they have got their outdoor areas, they're not 19 totally inside. They have plants. They have materials 20 that are outside, somewhat of a hybrid like that. So 21 how would something like that have a past, you know. 22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I don't know the answer to 23 all those questions. All I'm saying that is our 24 ordinance says, in your district, you have to conduct 25 your business within a wholly, completely enclosed
66 1 building. And right now you're not doing that. You 2 are -- you do face the freeway, correct? 3 MR. SOULLIERE: Correct. 4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: So it is visible from the 5 freeway, which is, you know, it's like being on a major 6 road. Here you have hundreds, if not thousands of cars 7 going by per day looking at this. 8 So I guess the question becomes, how do you 9 meet our standards. That you can't use this property 10 as reasonably intended and so forth. Anything else 11 that you can offer us? 12 MR. SOULLIERE: One of the other phases would 13 be selling more materials that would be all inside, 14 then I would have to go into more bag products for the 15 other materials, or have off site just for bulk 16 materials. Because the pallets materials can go 17 inside. Our intention is the majority of our business 18 is going to be interior materials, granites, 19 limestones. There is palletized materials that you can 20 still go inside without a problem. 21 So long-term, if that is where I needed to 22 be, you know, divide up some of that, where I didn't 23 need all of that property, that could be an avenue that 24 I can approach. 25 We are looking for a way of continuing our
67 1 operations. We have been there, family owned business, 2 for quite a few years, for 31 years, you know, in the 3 stone business. 4 We would work towards something that would 5 conform, that would work well with the City of Novi, 6 since they have definitely been working with me all 7 along the way. We wouldn't stop then. We would 8 (inaudible) with the building department, kind of come 9 up with a -- something that would conform and would 10 work. 11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anybody else have any 12 questions or comments? 13 Seeing none, would anybody like to make a 14 motion? Member Krieger? 15 MEMBER KRIEGER: From the satellite view, I 16 don't know how you would enclose it. You would have to 17 have to something that would be -- I don't know how the 18 delivery, you would have to come over with th e big 19 trucks like Angelos on Wixom Road, I don't know if it's 20 similar to that? 21 MR. SOULLIERE: What I have seen is, over at 22 Rocks and Roots, out in Romeo, they have a similar 23 situation, where the outside looks like an exterior 24 face, and it's a facade. So from all four sides, and 25 just the center is open so the trucks can lift up high
68 1 enough to dump out. That would be one avenue. 2 If over time, we couldn't come up with that, 3 if we had to completely put it inside, then we would 4 have to go with a different type of a business plan, 5 but I think we are going towards that business plan, of 6 doing interior, where everything is inside anyway. 7 All stone is on display. It is more of a 8 finished, more showroom type, like Dixie Stone was over 9 there. We purchased their assets of Dixie, all their 10 granite slabs that they had, and that's what we are 11 working and marketing and selling to become a stone 12 supplier for interior and exterior. 13 So they have done it in an industrial 14 complex, even though they have, unfortunately went out 15 of business, because they couldn't get enough business 16 going. We were looking to have somewhat of a hybrid of 17 that, be able to take care of the inside and support 18 the outside. 19 Because most of the exteriors, just like 20 Pennetas, and some of the other ones, have really 21 struggled not having winter work, you just have to shut 22 it down all winter. We are trying to supplement that, 23 so that would give us the extra revenue to afford to 24 build a nicer showroom, nicer display that would you a 25 year-round business, that would be able to take care of
69 1 customers year-round and see the products that we sell. 2 MEMBER KRIEGER: If you have been here though 3 31 years, you're looking for another five years, I 4 don't understand as well, because down the street, 5 Anglin's was there, and she had a lot outdoor as well, 6 she couldn't enclose it all, so she is not going to be 7 there. So I guess, you would have to work it out with 8 the City, so I'm not sure if five years would -- you 9 would need to have a plan to work with the City, but I 10 think five years is too much. 11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: The problem, sir, from 12 what I'm gathering, you're asking for what we call a 13 use variance. You want to do something there that 14 you're not supposed to do, obviously, that's why you 15 have come for a variance. 16 The problem is, if you're doing something for 17 10 or 11 years that you're not supposed to be doing, 18 you're basically asking us for rezoning, which we don't 19 do. 20 We grant variances for various things based 21 on, you know, our particular standards. That's why I'm 22 having an issue with continued use of something, you're 23 not supposed to be doing. That's all I'm saying. 24 Because unless you get something from the 25 City, such as a rezoning, where you can do what you
70 1 want to do, this is going to be very difficult to 2 extend this. 3 Member Ibe? 4 MEMBER IBE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Sir, I'm 5 looking at your notes here, the application you filled 6 out. And you state that without outside storage 7 business would likely close. Is that what you're 8 saying? 9 MR. SOULLIERE: Until we get our interior 10 business thriving. 11 MEMBER IBE: The way I read this, it tells me 12 that no matter what, it will be outside storage period. 13 MR. SOULLIERE: I think that, you know, what 14 I'm trying to get in, is that a mix that I can get the 15 interior business working. I can move all my 16 palletized material. We have been condensing down over 17 the years, tightening up that type of use. And more 18 products are more on pallets, on bulk materials, less 19 of a storage, as what we are trying to market, along 20 with the interior stone, which is a lot of cut stone in 21 boxes, on pallets. 22 So our whole drive was to try to make this 23 site work by selling products that we can completely 24 put inside. 25 Now, if the five years becomes too long, I'm
71 1 willing to consider, you know, sometime within a 2 three-year that I could definitely have it taken care 3 of, and then, if, you know, at that point, I'm either 4 going to move out and just make it in two sites, an 5 exterior site for bulks, and that leave all the 6 palletized materials for a enclosed, or sell the site 7 and work at a different place. 8 It's a problematic site. It's a tough site, 9 you have been very generous in let us have the signage 10 to get people there. We have worked through the road, 11 you know, definitely it's a challenge all the way 12 around. I mean, I think for you and for us, too. And 13 we get so many great comments, glad you're here, you're 14 close, you know, they enjoy coming in. 15 But if we can at least give me enough time to 16 work the rest of my plan, that I know is a good plan to 17 have the interior and the exterior and get it tightened 18 up inside. 19 I have got a few people that are already 20 talking to me, like Great Oaks Landscape, stuff like 21 that, that would give me room to put bulks out there 22 and then truck it from there. And just have the bag 23 materials for the pickup and then be able to truck it 24 from there. 25 But I need a little bit more time to get this
72 1 working, and nobody really figured that the housing 2 market and that would just go down so low, that you 3 couldn't even get any traction. There has just been 4 one hurdle after another to kind of get my plan working 5 out, and hopefully, you will, you know, give me an 6 opportunity to make it happen. 7 MEMBER IBE: Sir, you probably took the 8 (inaudible). I was going to say five years definitely 9 sounds a bit too much, because you have had this what, 10 since '99? 11 MR. SOULLIERE: Yes, it was a lease at first, 12 then I just purchased it like four or five years ago. 13 MEMBER IBE: Four or five years ago. 14 Obviously, you know the position of this Board. 15 MR. SOULLIERE: At some point it's got to 16 end. 17 MEMBER IBE: It's got to end somewhere. A 18 rule is a rule. It says everything has to be enclosed. 19 Unfortunately, I think five years is being too long. I 20 don't know about three years. 21 Now, I am inclined to think two years, 22 because I'd like to get you moving, and think about 23 what you going to do, take it seriously. You know 24 what, you have enough time to think about enclosing 25 this place.
73 1 If I was to read your own words, I don't 2 believe I would allow for two years. Because I don't 3 believe this place will ever be enclosed. My opinion. 4 I don't believe it will ever be completely enclosed to 5 come in conformity with the ordinance. 6 But two years, I probably live with. I don't 7 know what the rest of the Board thinks about, but I 8 think, if you cannot, of course, meet the needs within 9 two years, I'm sure that you probably have other plans 10 as to what you need to do. 11 MR. SOULLIERE: I would hope they would at 12 least give me two years to put the plan together, at 13 least break ground, give me that third year to 14 construct. 15 MEMBER IBE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Krieger? 17 MEMBER KRIEGER: How long would it take for a 18 rezoning request, if he needs chose that route? 19 MS. KUDLA: I mean, it just all depends 20 because he would have to put a plan together, go to the 21 City Council. They would have to approve a rezoning. 22 Whether or not they would do that, it's not clear 23 because then you're changing the character of that 24 area, you're possibly going to get objections from 25 surrounding property owners.
74 1 So there is no guarantee of getting rezoning. 2 It would just be similar to this, where he's putting 3 his request to another, you know, to City Council to 4 make that determination. 5 So there is no guarantees in that either. 6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Gedeon? 7 MEMBER GEDEON: I was just briefly reading 8 through the transcripts from your last meeting here, 9 which I didn't have the benefit of sitting in this 10 chair at that time. 11 And some of the things you're saying now, 12 were -- some of the things that -- the issues that the 13 Board Members raised were almost word-for-word what was 14 stated two years ago. 15 But you know, that being said, obviously 16 we're in pretty hard economic times. It would 17 unfortunate, I think, to leave you -- to just simply 18 deny this outright, so I would be in support of Member 19 Ibe's suggestion of a two-year temporary extension. 20 And, you know, as you requested, you know, I 21 would -- if there was actual concrete plans in place, I 22 would not -- I would probably even go for a third year 23 after that, too. But I would want to do it in a 24 piecemeal fashion, you know, two and one, as opposed to 25 a year-year outright from the beginning.
75 1 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. Anything else? 2 Member Skelcy? 3 MEMBER SKELCY: I would agree with Member 4 Gedeon. It sounds to me like within two years you 5 could get the open bulk items stored elsewhere, like at 6 Great Oaks, it sounds like, and then construct your 7 building for the interior items, is that what you're 8 saying today? 9 MR. SOULLIERE: Yeah, that would be my plan. 10 MEMBER SKELCY: All right. Thank you. 11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Nothing else, I will 12 entertain a motion. Member Ibe? 13 MEMBER IBE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. In Case 14 No. 11-021, Stone City, Inc., I move that we grant the 15 petitioner's request for a period of two years. And 16 during that time, the petitioner will have the 17 opportunity to have a plan in place, that will satisfy 18 the specific ordinance. 19 The basis for granting the request for an 20 additional two years are as follows: That the property 21 cannot be reasonably used for any other uses permitted, 22 by right or by special land use permitted in a zoning 23 district in which it is located. 24 That the need for the requested variance is 25 due to unique circumstances of physical conditions of
76 1 the property involved, such as narrowness, shallowness, 2 shape or water, topography or similar physical 3 conditions. 4 And as the applicant stated earlier, the 5 materials that he has on this property are bulk 6 materials, the kind of things you will find maybe in 7 bag materials as businesses say as Home Depot, or 8 Lowe's. 9 So the kind of materials they have, give a 10 uniqueness that will allow for this kind of thing, for 11 at least for the next two years, as previously stated. 12 Three, that a proposed use will not alter the 13 essential character of the neighborhood, and finally 14 that a need for the requested variance, is not a result 15 of actions of the property owner or previous owners. 16 Let me also state that the applicants stated 17 that the the property was on a lease, and he bought the 18 property about five years ago. So obvoiusly the 19 downturn in the economic time (inaudible), we 20 understand that it may have been difficult in putting 21 the whole plan into play. And with the hope that 22 within the next two years, that this plan will now take 23 shape and that will now comply with the city ordinance. 24 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 25 MEMBER SKELCY: Second.
77 1 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing a motion and a 2 second, any further discussion? Seeing none, can you 3 please call the roll, Ms. Pawlowski. 4 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon? 5 MEMBER GEDEON: Yes. 6 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam? 7 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Yes. 8 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe? 9 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 10 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger? 11 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 12 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi? 13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 14 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy? 15 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 16 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six to zero. 17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, sir. Next on 18 the agenda is Item No. 5, Case No. 11-022, 41200 Bridge 19 Street. 20 Is the applicant here? 21 MR. HADLEY: Yes. 22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Sir, state your name and 23 address, please. 24 MR. HADLEY: Lawrence D. Hadley, 5962 Trotter 25 Lane, West Bloomfield, Michigan.
78 1 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Can you raise your right 2 hand and be sworn. 3 MEMBER SKELCY: Do you swear or affirm to 4 tell the truth? 5 MR. HADLEY: I do. 6 MEMBER SKELCY: Thank you. 7 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Please go ahead. 8 MR. HADLEY: I am an employee of Certified 9 Management Company, the applicant here. And the reason 10 for our need for having an extended period of this sign 11 is the visibility on Meadowbrook Road is more important 12 nowadays, in these difficult economic times. 13 This is something we didn't have before. We 14 were granted this extension -- this variance a couple 15 of years ago, and we are still 30 percent vacant in our 16 multi-tenant plex, light industrial project. 17 And so we have got, you know, our -- the 18 practical difficulty we have got, is the fact that 19 leasing market is so very, very difficult, so having 20 the ability to get exposure on Meadowbrook is 21 important. 22 And then the secondary issue, the unique 23 circumstance is that there is a berm on Meadowbrook 24 Road that blocks visibility of our project from the 25 roadway.
79 1 So even though we're permitted a sign without 2 any variance there, you know, one can't really see that 3 from Meadowbrook Road. 4 In ordinary times, and in a good market that 5 would be sufficient. But in a really weak market, such 6 as we have now, and we're -- you know, we need that 7 extra exposure on Meadowbrook Road, and that's the 8 basis for our request. 9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anything else, sir? 10 MR. HADLEY: No, sir. 11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anybody from the public 12 would like to make a comment, on this particular case, 13 please raise your hand. 14 Seeing none, I will close the public remarks 15 section and ask our secretary to read any 16 correspondence. 17 MEMBER SKELCY: Thirty-two notices were 18 mailed, no responses, four were returned by the post 19 office. 20 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any comments from the 21 City? 22 MS. KUDLA: No. 23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Then I will open it up to 24 the Board for discussion. Member Skelcy? 25 MEMBER SKELCY: So the first time you came in
80 1 front of the board was in 2007, and that was four years 2 ago. And -- for the first variance. 3 Now, you may not have been here, but someone 4 for this company did. So, you know, I'm kind of 5 getting, you know, that feel when is a temporary sign a 6 permanent sign. 7 And I think four years is getting pretty 8 close to that. I'm open to hearing what the other 9 Board Members have to say about that, but I'm kind of 10 leaning towards not granting it because I don't want it 11 to become a permanent, temporary sign. Thank you. 12 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Actually I just had one 13 question. From the City's perspective, they are 14 entitled to one sign, correct? 15 MS. KUDLA: One -- what type of -- 16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: They're entitled to this 17 type of sign, just not the size. 18 MS. KUDLA: Oversized, right. 19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: They're entitled to 16 20 square foot, they're requesting 24 square foot. 21 MS. KUDLA: Correct. 22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I guess my question is 23 sir, question what difference does it make to you, to 24 request a variance for that extra few square footage? 25 MR. HADLEY: Because it makes a difference in
81 1 the size of the sign, and the ability to grab the 2 eyeballs of the motorist going down the highway. 3 Signs are -- you know, even in this high tech 4 world, yes, we do get lots of leads and so forth, over 5 the internet or what have you, but we still get people 6 that call us off of our sign. That is still a primary 7 function of communication. 8 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: No, I understand, granted 9 bigger is always better, but, you know, the city, 10 according to their own ordinance, has a particular 11 calculation, as to, you know, how you -- what you're 12 entitled to, so why do you come -- or why do you think 13 you are an exception to this rule for this many years? 14 MR. HADLEY: Because of the extremely weak 15 market that we have been faced with for, in essence, 16 several years. 17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: The problem is, if you use 18 that argument, that's specifically not something we 19 should consider. The economic -- I understand people 20 use it, it's very sympathetic, don't get me wrong, but 21 that is something we cannot consider. Anything else 22 that you can offer us? 23 MR. HADLEY: That's all I have today. 24 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anybody else? Member 25 Gedeon?
82 1 MEMBER GEDEON: I'm going to come to your 2 support here because in your introduction, you 3 mentioned that there was a berm on Meadowbrook Road 4 that was preventing visibility of a normal size sign. 5 Do you standby that statement? 6 MR. HADLEY: Yes. 7 MEMBER GEDEON: You know, I did not have the 8 opportunity to drive by this, so I cannot confirm that 9 statement, but he has sworn under oath, and I think 10 that would be a valid reason for granting a variance of 11 only eight square feet, in this case, over what he's 12 otherwise entitled to. 13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anybody else? Member 14 Krieger? 15 MEMBER KRIEGER: I would agree. I have 16 driven Meadowbrook, there are hills there. So given 17 the speed, given the topography, that I would be able 18 to support this for another year. 19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anybody else? Member 20 Ibe -- I'm sorry. Member Sanghvi. We will get you 21 first. 22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. I'm just going 23 to say, I drive by there almost four times a week, and 24 it's a very peculiar topography. I think this sign is 25 barely visible, actually, this size itself. Thank you.
83 1 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Ibe, any comments? 2 MEMBER IBE: Sure. Sir, how much longer do 3 you think you'll need a sign? 4 MR. HADLEY: I believe we applied for a year, 5 didn't we? I did not submit this application. I was 6 asked to -- 7 MEMBER IBE: I know. I just hate to have 8 this revolving door every year to come back for one 9 more year. That's why I'm asking. Were you able to 10 figure out from the parties how much longer we going to 11 have this. We don't want it to be 10 years from now, 12 we are still dealing with the same sign over and over 13 again. 14 MR. HADLEY: I'm sure we are hopeful because 15 these signs are expensive to put up and maintain, that, 16 you know, one year will do it because we are seeing 17 improvement room in the marketplace. 18 MEMBER IBE: I will take your word for it, 19 sir. Thank you. 20 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: If there is no comments, I 21 will entertain a motion. Member Gedeon? 22 MEMBER GEDEON: In case 11-022, 41200 Bridge 23 Street, I move that we grant the variance as requested 24 for an oversized leasing sign of 24 square feet, for 25 the reasons that the request is based on circumstances
84 1 or features that are exceptional and unique to the 2 property, and do not result in conditions that are 3 generally present in the city. Specifically, the 4 applicant indicated that there is a berm preventing 5 disability of a normal size sign and other Board 6 Members mentioned that the property is situated and has 7 a unique topography as situated. 8 Failure to grant the relief will unreasonably 9 prevent or limit the use of the property and will 10 result in substantially more than a mere inconvenience 11 or inability to attain higher economic or financial 12 return. The grant of relief will not result in a use 13 of structure that is incompatible or unreasonably 14 interferes with adjacent or surrounding properties, 15 will result in substantial justice being done to both 16 the applicant and the adjacent or surrounding 17 properties and is not consistent with the spirit of the 18 ordinance. 19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Did you want to want limit 20 to a time period? 21 MEMBER GEDEON: Yes, I would like to -- the 22 applicant didn't specify a time period, did they? 23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I think their 24 recommendation was about one year. 25 MEMBER GEDEON: I will time limit it for one
85 1 year. 2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any further discussion? 4 Seeing none, can you please call the roll, 5 Ms. Pawlowski. 6 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon? 7 MEMBER GEDEON: Yes. 8 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam? 9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Yes. 10 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe? 11 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 12 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger? 13 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 14 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi? 15 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 16 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy? 17 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 18 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six to zero. 19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. You're all 20 set. 21 MR. HADLEY: I'm the next one. 22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Oh, you're the next one, 23 too. 24 Next on the agenda then is Case No -- Item 25 No. 6, Case No. 11-023 for 25795 Meadowbrook Road.
86 1 Sir, state your name, again, for the record. 2 MR. HADLEY: Lawrence D. Hadley. 3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: You're still -- consider 4 yourself under oath. You can go ahead, continue with 5 this request. 6 MR. HADLEY: This circumstances is somewhat 7 similar to the one I described. This property is on 8 the west side of Meadowbrook Road, immediately south of 9 Eleven Mile Road. And there is a large single tenant 10 building in front of this complex, and there are three 11 multi-tenant complexes in the rear. There is also a 12 very large wetland area in front of that single tenant 13 building. 14 Furthermore, on Eleven Mile Road, on the 15 north side of the property there is another 16 multi-tenant complex, that is also very heavily wooded. 17 So there is really no ability whatsoever to 18 see any signage, let alone the buildings, from 19 Meadowbrook Road, because of that situation, plus the 20 topography, because I believe the property slopes 21 somewhat upwards, just where you go up the driveway. 22 So there is a slight upwards slope to the topography. 23 So that particular set of topography issues, 24 combined with the same, economic issues, this complex 25 is newer, it's 40 almost, 50 years percent vacant. Is
87 1 the reason for our particular hardship and need and 2 circumstances. 3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anybody from the public 4 that would like to make a comment on this? 5 Seeing none, I will close that public remarks 6 section and ask the secretary to read any 7 correspondence. 8 MEMBER SKELCY: Forty-five notices were 9 mailed. No responses. One returned by the post 10 office. 11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any comments from the 12 City? 13 MS. KUDLA: No. 14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing none, Board Members 15 any questions or comments? Member Krieger? 16 MEMBER KRIEGER: Is a year okay? 17 MR. HADLEY: Yes, ma'am. 18 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I have no problem with 19 that either. It is a similar situation. I understand 20 that. And the size is not obviously much larger. So 21 if anybody wants to make a motion. Member Krieger? 22 MEMBER KRIEGER: In Case No. 11-023 at 25795 23 Meadowbrook Road, I move to approve the applicant's 24 request for the extension of the variance granting his 25 24 square foot oversized real estate sign located at
88 1 25795 Meadowbrook Road, to extend this for one year, 2 and their request is based on the circumstances and 3 features of this area, and unique because of the 4 wetlands and speed and hilliness of Meadowbrook. 5 The failure to grant relief will prevent the 6 applicant, the right to use the property, for higher 7 economic return, and it is consistent within the spirit 8 of the ordinance. 9 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 10 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any further discussion? 11 Seeing none, Ms. Pawlowski, can you please call the 12 roll. 13 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon? 14 MEMBER GEDEON: Yes. 15 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam? 16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Yes. 17 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe? 18 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 19 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger? 20 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 21 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi? 22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 23 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy? 24 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 25 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six to zero.
89 1 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, sir. 2 MR. HADLEY: Thank you for your time. 3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Next on the agenda is Item 4 No. 7, Case No. 11-024, 21470 Novi Road, The Oil 5 Exchange. Sir, please state your name and address. 6 MR. REDA: Fred Reda, address 21470 Novi 7 Road. 8 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Please raise your right 9 hand and be sworn. 10 MEMBER SKELCY: Do you swear or affirm to 11 tell the truth? 12 MR. REDA: Yes. 13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Go ahead, sir. 14 MR. REDA: I request the Board to have us 15 open us our front big doors half way during the months 16 of June, July and August. It gets very hot. There is 17 no cross-breeze going through. 18 It gets over 100 degrees in there, especially 19 when the cars come in for service, and we open the 20 hoods, the hot air fills up the whole shop and has 21 nowhere to go. 22 So the guys in there, they're very 23 uncomfortable, and we service over 1,000 cars a month, 24 provide service to the community and now customers come 25 in there, to help them out with their tires, their
90 1 washer fluid, all free of charge. 2 I'm not asking for much, only half way up to 3 here, for three months out of the year in order to just 4 get a cross-breeze. 5 My manager went two days ago, and he got a 6 petition signed for around the neighborhood over there, 7 131 petitions, customers there are for it. 8 It's not an eyesore. The doors are open half 9 way. The employees there have to have uniforms on, and 10 their shirts are tucked in, so nothing really -- I 11 don't think it should be a problem having the doors 12 open half way for three months out of the year. 13 That's about it. 14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, sir. I will 15 open it up to the public for any comments. Anybody 16 want to make a comment on this particular case? 17 Sir, please step forward. State your name 18 and address. 19 MR. WIDAK: My name is Joseph Widak. The 20 address is 21530 Novi Road. 21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Raise your right hand and 22 be sworn. 23 MEMBER SKELCY: Do you swear or affirm to 24 tell the truth? 25 MR. WIDAK: I do.
91 1 MEMBER SKELCY: Thank you. 2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Go ahead, sir. 3 MR. WIDAK: I am the owner of Novi Motive, or 4 my trust is. And when we built our building, original 5 part of the building, nine bays, we also asked for a 6 door facing Novi Road, and we were denied that because 7 of the zoning ordinances. Consequently, we had to move 8 our door to the side, we lost the use of a showroom and 9 we lost working space. 10 When the Oil Exchange was originally proposed 11 and built, I believe it was under a different name, 12 they were granted side yard variances, front yard 13 variances, and the right to have their bay doors facing 14 Novi Road. 15 It is my belief that this is unfair to other 16 businesses, such as myself, that had to conform to the 17 ordinance. And yet, to grant not only a variance for 18 front bay doors, now we want -- the petitioner wants to 19 make a request for a variance on the variance. 20 My building, for the most part, does not look 21 like a repair shop. Many of my customers had a hard 22 time finding it because it looks like more like an 23 office building than it does an actual 14,000 square 24 feet repair facility. 25 I had to put a lawn in front of my building.
92 1 Now on either side of me I have asphalt parking lots. 2 So I feel that if you grant a variance on 3 this variance, then you need to look at many other 4 facilities on Novi Road granting them variances, too. 5 Granted, we have tough economic times, but 6 how far do you want to go with your variances. Thank 7 you. 8 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, sir. Anybody 9 else in the audience that would like make a comment on 10 this particular case? 11 Seeing none, I will close the public remarks 12 section and ask our secretary to read any 13 correspondence. 14 MEMBER SKELCY: 32 notices were mailed with 15 two objections. One objection came from the prior 16 speaker, Mr. Joseph Widak. His letter is dated 17 July 28th, 2011, and the letter he sent contains the 18 same statements he made to us here today. 19 The other one comes from Doris J. Craig, 20 C-R-A-I-G, located at 43412 Gallway Drive, dated July 21 9th, 2011. 22 She states, please do not allow the Oil 23 Exchange to operate with the overhead service bay doors 24 facing the entrance, to our subdivision to be open at 25 any time. Anyone exiting Gallway onto Novi Road looks
93 1 directly into the Oil Exchange, which is not a pleasant 2 site. 3 At the time this facility was being built, a 4 promise was made by the Zoning Board that they would 5 never allow the Oil Exchange to operate with the doors 6 open. I beg you to keep this promise. 7 Also, it was promised that if the owner did 8 not abide by the agreement, they would be closed down. 9 In the interest of all the homeowners who 10 have spent time and money to improve and maintain our 11 area, please protect our investments by demanding that 12 the Oil Exchange obey the ordinances as they stand. 13 Absolutely no variance granted and severe penalties for 14 non-compliance. Thank you, Doris Craig. 15 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. Any questions or 16 comments from the City? 17 MS. KUDLA: No. 18 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: None. I will open it up 19 to the Board for discussion. Andy? 20 MR. GERECKE: One thing that was brought up, 21 too, that since between 2006 and 2008, there has been 22 some landscaping that was removed on the front islands 23 there, that was on the west and the north of it. That 24 sort of screened those these doors somewhat, to make it 25 look a little nicer, and that's all gone now.
94 1 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Would that screen would in 2 area like the bottom, several feet where they went up? 3 MR. GERECKE: Not particularly, no. But it's 4 just coming from the north and the south I think it 5 would screen the building somewhat. 6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I will open it up to the 7 Board for discussion. Member Krieger? 8 MEMBER KRIEGER: I don't understand for the 9 petitioner, why the site isn't air conditioned, or you 10 have some kind of other ventilation, other? 11 MR. REDA: The doors are always opening and 12 closing. There is no point in putting an air 13 conditioner in. It's just a waste of money. When the 14 cars come in, you have to open the doors to let them 15 in. They're high doors. When you let them out, all 16 the cold air is going to leave. So there is no point. 17 I don't think any oil change has air 18 conditioning in it, or any garage. 19 MEMBER KRIEGER: The back bay doors, are 20 there back bay doors? 21 MR. REDA: Yes. 22 MEMBER KRIEGER: Do you have those open? 23 MR. REDA: Yes, those are open. I'm saying 24 we need a cross-breeze, all the air gets stuck in 25 there, doesn't get flushed out of there.
95 1 I mean, just for three months out of the 2 year, I don't think -- I mean, only two people object 3 to it. He is the owner of the Novi Automotive. He's 4 my competition. I can understand why he's against it. 5 The other person, I don't know. I have 131 petitions 6 here in the neighborhood that don't care one way or 7 another if we have them open or not. 8 That landscape, I mean, that's not really 9 going to shelter the front doors. We took them out 10 because all the trees died, they were making a mess and 11 an eyesore more than anything, so we took them down, 12 now it's all open and clean. 13 If we are not really looking -- coming out of 14 your house, looking into the bays, you're not going to 15 really see us. 16 I mean, if you are home and you're outside, 17 you're not going to see the bays, unless you go onto 18 the street and look in. 19 MEMBER KRIEGER: I guess, as an example, in 20 my subdivision, they built all the garage doors to the 21 side, so that people would keep their garage doors not 22 visible to the street. There are some -- I don't 23 know -- well, you can't do -- say that in a 24 subdivision, but I do have a general difficulty and 25 compassion that the workers would have to be in a
96 1 heated environment, but I can't see having bay doors 2 open facing Novi Road with people working. There might 3 be a safety issue there that I don't know about. I 4 agree that with the -- even though it's cleaner, that 5 the area with having some hedges or some kind of 6 landscaping, so I'm having -- I'm not in -- very much 7 in support of this. There must be other options to the 8 applicant. Thank you. 9 MR. REDA: The landscape thing -- 10 MEMBER KRIEGER: I'm am finished, so -- 11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Sanghvi. I'm 12 sorry. Yeah, you can respond to questions that they 13 ask you, since you're finished with your presentation. 14 Member Skelcy? 15 MEMBER SKELCY: I have to agree with Member 16 Krieger. I think another alternative that they could 17 use, although this is not what we are here for, have 18 fans blowing in this facility to create a cross-breeze. 19 So I would not be in favor of this given that it faces 20 the Novi Road. Thank you. 21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: During these three months, 22 do you always have the back doors open for your -- 23 MR. REDA: Yes. The front bays, I just wan 24 them half way, they come up here. There is a lot of 25 breeze coming through and stuff, but it's hot air.
97 1 That's all I asking. We're in the process of doing the 2 shrubs and the landscaping in August, so that's in the 3 plans. 4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: You're saying the opening 5 of the back doors during these creates -- 6 MR. REDA: That doesn't do anything. That 7 just shoves more hot air in there. It's got nowhere to 8 go. It stays inside. Lifting the front doors up, you 9 get that breeze, it's way cooler. It's about 15 10 degrees cooler. It makes a difference. Everybody is 11 in there, they're hot and sweaty. 12 We do have fans in there, too, but it just 13 blows hot air around. It doesn't get no cool air to go 14 in there. 15 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any other comments or 16 questions? Member Gedeon? 17 MEMBER GEDEON: I guess I can understand it 18 would ideal to have the front doors open all the time 19 for the comfort of the workers, but I mean, cars are 20 coming in and out. And I'm assuming you're not making 21 the cars back out. So I mean, the front doors do open 22 periodically, so it's not like it's an oven 23 continuously getting hotter, hotter and hotter all day 24 long, there is a release of heat. 25 In looking through the record, I mean it
98 1 wasn't -- it was clearly a very contentious effort -- 2 contentious issue in the past. So I mean, I don't 3 think -- I think these issues were all expected. You 4 know, it seems like there was no surprises here. So 5 I'm not really in favor of supporting this variance. 6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anybody else? If not, I 7 will entertain a motion. Anybody? Member Ibe? 8 MEMBER IBE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. In Case 9 No. 11-024, 21470, The Oil Exchange, I move that the 10 applicant's request be denied for the following 11 reasons. That there are no unique circumstances, 12 physical conditions that will allow for the request to 13 be granted. 14 In a sense, the ordinance is very clear as to 15 what it requires, and the applicant is quite aware of 16 what is required of the ordinance. And also the 17 businesses in the area have all complied with the 18 ordinance. And the need here is somewhat self-created 19 because the applicant knew what they bargained for when 20 they agreed to be on the way, instead of maybe having 21 the doors to the side. And street compliance here was 22 necessary in order to conform with the ordinance, as 23 well as to be consistent with what is expected in the 24 general surrounding areas. 25 The requested variance, the denial of the
99 1 requested variance will not do -- would not bring upon 2 any injustice to the applicant. The applicant here has 3 not brought forth any economic reasons, which are 4 really not the issue here. 5 All the applicant stated was that it gets 6 warm, very hot in there. And also the applicant has 7 also attested that the doors do open up every now and 8 then to allow cars in and out, which means that it is 9 not shut all the time. As a result of this, I move 10 that we deny the applicant's request. 11 MEMBER SKELCY: Second. 12 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any further discussion? 13 Ms. Pawlowski, will you please call the roll. 14 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon? 15 MEMBER GEDEON: Yes. 16 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam? 17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Yes. 18 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe? 19 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 20 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger? 21 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 22 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi? 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 24 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy? 25 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes.
100 1 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six to zero. 2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, sir. 3 Are there any other matters, other than items 4 on the agenda? Anything from the city? 5 MS. KUDLA: No. 6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Krieger? 7 MEMBER KRIEGER: On the minutes, if the print 8 could be bigger. This is too small. 9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anything else? Seeing 10 none, I will entertain a motion to adjourn. 11 MEMBER SANGHVI: So moved. 12 MEMBER IBE: Second. 13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: All in favor say aye? 14 THE BOARD: Aye. 15 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Opposed? We are 16 adjourned. 17 (The meeting was adjourned at 9:00 p.m.) 18 ** ** ** 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
101 1 STATE OF MICHIGAN ) 2 COUNTY OF OAKLAND ) 3 4 CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY PUBLIC AND COURT REPORTER 5 I, JENNIFER L. WALL, Notary Public in and 6 for the County of Oakland, State of Michigan, do hereby 7 certify that the hearing above was taken before me on 8 Tuesday, July 12, 2011. The foregoing statements were duly 9 recorded by me stenographically and electronically, and were 10 reduced to typewritten form by computer-aided transcription 11 under my direction; and that this is, to the best of my 12 knowledge and belief, a true and accurate transcript of 13 said proceeding. 14 I further certify that I am not related to 15 any party or counsel, nor interested in the outcome of 16 this cause. 17 18 19 20 ______________________________ Jennifer L. Wall, CSR-4183 21 Notary Public, Oakland County, MI My Commission Expires: 11-12-15 22 23 24 25
|